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End of Credit?

20 Aug

Sample American Express-type credit card featu...

Sample American Express-type credit card featuring the Card Security Code on the front (circled in red). (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Back about A.D. 2000, I briefly met a Chinese man who had an unusual reputation.  According to some, he’d owned a business that had prospered for 10 years—but which he secretly knew to be on the verge of bankruptcy.

Therefore, while his credit rating was still high, he applied for ten credit cards from ten different banks.  Each credit card had a $25,000 limit.  He proceeded to spend the limit on each credit card and rang up a bill of one quarter million dollars.  He didn’t repay one dime.

When the credit card companies came a-callin’ to ask when he’d pay his debt, he replied in writing by registered mail that he’d be happy to pay just as soon as the credit card company verified the alleged debts.  All collection efforts stopped and the Chinese man skated away with $250,000 in goods and services.

According to the story, the Uniform Debt Collection Procedures Act provides all debtors with the right to demand that their alleged debts be verified.  That means that if you claim I owe you, say, $10,000 I have to right to demand that you swear under oath to the debt’s existence and size.

So, let’s suppose that last March 22nd (while running up $250,000 in credit card debt) our Chinese gentleman spent $108.22 on groceries, $1,972.98 on a new flat screen TV, $42.18 on booze, and $12.00 on parking.  Do you suppose a credit card company could find the grocery store cashier, the TV salesman, the bartender and the parking attendant who could verify under oath that on March 22nd, that they distinctly remember the transaction in question and the Chinese gentleman being party to that transaction?

Assuming that such cashiers, salesmen, and bartenders could even be found and distinctly recalled each purchase by the Chinese gentleman, what do you suppose it would cost the credit card companies to find ‘em, put ‘em all on oath in front of a notary, and later, transport them to the court room whenever their testimony was required?

The logistical problems in verifying one large debt are challenging.  The logistical problems of verifying scores of individual transactions are almost impossible to overcome.

Thus, rather than attempt the impossible, once the Chinese gentleman asked that his debts be verified, the credit card companies ceased collection efforts.

The story illustrates an essential principle for the credit card industry:  The entire business model is absolutely dependent on customers voluntarily repaying their debts.   If customers stop repaying their debts voluntarily—and resist paying in court—the credit card industry will die.

 

•  In support of that principle, The New York Times recently reported (“Problems Riddle Moves to Collect Credit Card Debt”) that,

 

The same problems that plagued the foreclosure process — and prompted a multibillion-dollar settlement with big banks — are now emerging in the debt collection practices of credit card companies.

As they work through a glut of bad loans, companies like American Express, Citigroup, and Discover Financial are going to court to recoup their money. But many of the lawsuits rely on erroneous documents, incomplete records and generic testimony from witnesses, according to judges who oversee the cases.

Lenders, the judges said, are churning out lawsuits without regard for accuracy, and improperly collecting debts from consumers. The concerns echo a recent abuse in the foreclosure system, a practice known as robo-signing in which banks produced similar documents for different homeowners and did not review them.

 

The sheer volume of credit card transactions is so enormous that individual transactions are extremely difficult to accurately track, remember or record.  As a result, companies that provide credit can’t legally and efficiently collect the amounts due.

Implications?  Either the volume of credit card transactions must be limited to whatever number can be reliably tracked and enforced, or the very nature of credit card transactions must be modified to insure that efficient collection is possible.

If the nature of credit card transactions is significantly changed so as to make each credit card transaction more easily enforced, it seems certain that credit card transactions will become increasingly complex and difficult.  If CC transactions become more difficult, CC usage will decline.

How might the “nature” of CC transaction (or at least the use of “plastic”) be changed?

One way would be to give most people debit cards rather than credit cards.  Then, if you spend any money, it’s your money—not the credit card company’s money.  The CC company has nothing at risk in the transaction.  Virtually all liability for the transaction lies with the consumer.

Of course, if the CC company isn’t using its own money in the CC transaction, the CC company won’t earn a fee or interest.  CC company business and profits will decline.

More, the credit card has provided significant stimulus for the economy by allowing “impulse” purchases.  You see it, you want it, you say “What th’ heck—I’ll pay for it next month”—and you purchase it with your credit card.  Impulse purchases stimulate the economy.

Debit cards provide no “impulse” purchases.  It’s just like using money in your wallet or in your bank account.  If you use your debit card out now, your saving will be diminished now.  (Takes all the fun out of shopping, doesn’t it?)  Less impulse purchasing tends to slow the economy.

 

•  “I would say that roughly 90 percent of the credit card lawsuits are flawed and can’t prove the person owes the debt,” said Noach Dear, a civil court judge in Brooklyn, who said he presided over as many as 100 such cases a day.”

Ninety percent?

If 90% of all current credit card transactions can’t be proved, then the credit card system may be, as a whole, so flawed that it can’t survive.  Anyone investing in a business model that’s exposed to a 90% collections failure is likely to lose their investment.

If it’s true that 90% of all CC transactions can’t be proved, then the CC business model may be doomed and we may soon see the end of most credit.

But if credit ends, there’ll be less currency in circulation.  As M3 declines, the tendency towards deflation and economic depression should increase.

 

•  Last year, American Express sued Felicia Tancreto, claiming that she had stopped making payments . . .  Ms. Tancreto contested . . .   Judge Dear dismissed the lawsuit, citing a lack of evidence. The American Express employee who testified, the judge noted, provided generic testimony about the way the company maintained its records. The same witness gave similar evidence in other cases, which the judge said amounted to “robo-testimony.”

 

“Generic testimony” probably corresponds to the CC companies’ inability to prosecute the Chinaman.  No one who was actually party to each transaction (clerks, salesmen, cash register operators) remembers the Chinaman and can swear under oath that the Chinaman actually bought a dozen fresh clams on March 3rd.   Result?  Nothing’s left for evidence but some accounting clerk who can swear that the AmEx records are generally believed to be accurate—but who has no direct, personal knowledge or memory of any individual transaction.

American Express and other credit card companies defended their practices. Sonya Conway, a spokeswoman for American Express, said, “we strongly disagree with Judge Dear’s comments and believe that we have a strong process in place to ensure accuracy of testimony and affidavits provided to courts.”

 

Can the AmEx employee truthfully testify that the AmEx accounting procedures are rigorous and accurate?  Probably so.  But the AmEx employee cannot have personal knowledge of each of the hundreds of transactions that, in sum, created the defendant’s alleged debt.  There is virtually no possibility that the vast majority of alleged debts can be verified by anyone present at the time the debt was entered into—except the defendant.

Even the defendant probably won’t clearly remember all of the debts he allegedly incurred.  Credit cards are all about “impulse” purchases.  Who remembers all of their impulses? If the debtor does remember all of his CC debts, he probably still won’t testify against himself.

Without some third party who has direct, personal knowledge of each transaction—and is willing to appear in court to be cross-examined on his knowledge—it becomes almost impossible to enforce most credit card debt.

 

Interviews with dozens of state judges, regulators and lawyers, however, indicated that such flaws are increasingly common in credit card suits. In certain instances, lenders are trying to collect money from consumers who have already paid their bills or increasing the size of the debts by adding erroneous fees and interest costs.

The problem, according to judges, is that credit card companies are not always following the proper legal procedures, even when they have the right to collect money. Certain cases hinge on mass-produced documents because the lenders do not provide proof of the outstanding debts, like the original contract or payment history.

 

The first problem is that in this computer age, it’s easy to store and retrieve a digital record of a transaction on a hard drive.  But that digital record is not the “original contract” (on paper) or the other actual documents carrying an actual signature.  At law, copies of documents have no real authority.  The only document that counts is the one with the actual, wet-ink signature.

So, when it comes time to litigate a debt, it’s easy to find the digital record of the transaction—but where the heck can we find the “original contract” or other actual documents?   Could they be in the pile in the back room with the other hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of other “original contracts”?  If so, how do we find the particular “original” on which our lawsuit depends?

The second fundamental problem is that banks, eager to earn fees from credit cards, formerly issued them to everyone who had a pulse.  The issuance of credit to virtually everyone was similar to the “sub-prime mortgage” mess where banks issued mortgages to people who couldn’t possibly repay the debt.

In the case of credit cards, the banks issued credit cards to people who often didn’t have much moral fiber.  If times got tough, these credit card holders saw no reason not to exploit the credit cards and then leave the banks holding an uncollectable debt.

A lot of people would say that refusing to pay your credit card bills is morally wrong, and I’d agree with them.  I’d also say that banks being “bailed out” as “too big to fail” is also “morally wrong,” but whatcha gonna do?  Sometimes the banks rip off the public.  Sometimes the public rips off the banks.  We live in immoral times.  We have become an immoral people who can’t be relied on to voluntarily repay our debts.  We are therefore unworthy of credit—and credit will therefore be withheld.  As credit is restricted, the credit card industry will tend to wither or even die.

 

•  “Lawsuits against credit card borrowers are flooding the courts, according to the judges. While the amount of bad debt has fallen since the financial crisis, lenders are trying to work through the soured loans and clean up their books. In all, borrowers are behind on $18.7 billion of credit card debt, or roughly 3 percent of the total.

 

 3% isn’t so bad.

$18 billion isn’t so much (at least not relative to the whole US economy).

Still, that seemingly small debt has to mean that, in the future, fewer people will be allocated credit and the amount of credit allocated will be reduced.

More, although only 3% of credit card debt currently winds up in court, judges guestimate that 90% of all credit card accounts can’t be proved by the credit card companies.  That means that 90% of the people paying credit cards could “beat the rap” if they cared enough to learn how.

The whole credit card scheme is ultimately based on the honesty and integrity of the card-holders.  Again, so long as the card-holders voluntarily repay the debt, the credit card industry can continue to function.  But if the card-holders refuse to repay, banks may be unable to compel payment in as many as 90% (currently about $560 billion in credit card debts).

The economy can easily absorb a 3% loss ($19 billion) of credit card transactions.  But the economy might be shaken by the loss of 90% of credit card transaction ($550 billion).

 

•  Many judges said that their hands are tied. Unless a consumer shows up to contest a lawsuit, the judges cannot question the banks or comb through the lawsuits to root out suspicious documents. Instead, they are generally required to issue a summary judgment, in essence an automatic win for the bank.

[Therefore] The errors in credit card suits often go undetected, according to the judges. Unlike in foreclosures, the [CC] borrowers typically do not show up in court to defend themselves. As a result, an estimated 95 percent of lawsuits result in default judgments in favor of lenders. With a default judgment, credit card companies can garnish a consumer’s wages or freeze bank accounts to get their money back.

 

But as consumers go deeper into debt and unemployment, they’ll have more time to actually contest the credit card debts in court.  As they do, the number of default judgments favoring the CC companies will fall, the cost of prosecuting credit card debts will rise, and banks will become increasingly reluctant to make credit available to consumers.

In the future, if you want credit, you’ll have to be something more than a mere “consumer”—you’ll have to show evidence that you have been, are, and are likely to continue being, a “producer”.

As the banks increasingly eschew mere “consumers,” we may see a revival of respect for the only people able to access credit:  producers.

As we regain our respect for producers (and lose respect for “consumers”) the nation’s system of values may change.  Our economy may evolve from “consumer-based” to “producer-based”.  Even our political system may shift from “entitlement-based” to a system based on equal rights—and equal responsibilities.  People might have to work to receive welfare.  Subsidies might disappear.

Credit cards might die, but “Tis an ill wind that blows no good,” hmm?

 

•  Banks make their money by lending.  As it becomes increasingly difficult for banks to collect debts, banks will not only suffer losses in revenue, they’ll lend less.  Result?  The stream of credit available to the public and the fees and interest that would otherwise accrue to the banks will shrink.

Three implications:

1)  Whatever stimulus (QE3) the Federal Reserve wants to provide to the public will be at least partially offset by diminished access to credit card debt;

2)  Banks will make less money in the future and therefore be increasingly prone to fail;

3)  As banks restrict access to credit, the economy will tend to slow, recession will be prolonged, depression will become more likely.

America’s decreasing access to credit will not, by itself, cause an economic collapse.

But diminished credit is another “leaf in the breeze” that shows which way the economy is heading. We’re losing confidence in our economy and in our individual ability to make good on our debts.  In addition to virtually all the other “leaves” that we can see “blowing in the wind,” it’s hard to avoid the conclusion that our economic “wind” is blowing from prosperity and towards depression.

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22 Comments

Posted by on August 20, 2012 in Credit, Money

 

Tags: , ,

22 Responses to End of Credit?

  1. sem

    August 20, 2012 at 8:51 PM

    Very timely article:

    I have one question though, that I cannot find an answer for;

    If the banking system fails, what happens to individual/personal dept ( mortgages, CC loans, etc.)

     
    • Vincent

      August 20, 2012 at 10:05 PM

      Won’t they be sold to the highest bidder at auction? Maybe an organization or country that still produces and therefore has wealth. I don’t want to have any debt when the banking system fails. Not sure I would like being a bond servant or slave to the buyer of my debt.

       
      • Yartap

        August 20, 2012 at 10:46 PM

        Vincent,

        Your words brought a thought to me. What if the Powers that Be set a plan for foreign banks to buy up American banks? Remember, the Fed loaned billions to foreign banks, which are just holding the money in our US bonds. Could it be that this money is their plan towards world government? Federal Reserve member banks here and in Europe. Just a thought.

        Vincent, the next thought you made me think of, was how good it is that these banks are “private,” meaning: you cannot go to jail for your private debts.
        Butttt, how is it that if we have a debt owed to the government, we can go to prison? Now, think about your Sovereignty. If I cannot pay my taxes, my servant will enslave me. Who is the Master?

        I don’t see how this is possible. The Constitution allows the government to punish pirates; but, where does the Constitution say that they can punish an American taxpayer?

         
      • Vincent

        August 22, 2012 at 8:57 AM

        Yartap,

        It is not illegal to owe taxes. You can owe the government millions of dollars in taxes and not go to prison. You only go to prison if you try to beat them out of the money you owe them.

        The Constitution says that you have a right to contract and the state won’t impair your contractual obligations. The constitution allows the American taxpayer to punish themselves, but it does not directly punish them.

        A freeman has the power to contract his freedom away.

         
      • Yartap

        August 22, 2012 at 9:07 AM

        Vincent,

        Your Right! Thanks for reeling me back in.

         
    • Yartap

      August 20, 2012 at 10:23 PM

      sem,

      It’s called “pennies on the dollar.” The Fed. Reserve steps in and assumes all accounts and assets, then sell it all off to another bank for pennies on the dollar until we are left with the Fed. Then their change to another new currency, people lose value and we start the thing all over again.

      Sem, Al, chris s. and everbody please look at the blog I posted to: chris s. in “TWO QUESTIONS FOR THE IRS.” It is at the bottom. Tell me what you think. Question: “Is it a possible answer?”

       
    • Adask

      August 21, 2012 at 12:53 AM

      Assuming the banks really hold the debt on the mortgage, if the creditor/bank fails, the debt might be cancelled. After that, you might claim ownership of the house by adverse possession. It might a silver lining. It would be a catastrophe, but if the banks died, men might once again actually own perfect title to their land and homes–if only by default.

       
      • Ummer

        August 21, 2012 at 2:50 AM

        You know, before there was credit… there was outright ownership. After credit, there was slavery.

        If you for one moment even conceived a laughable idea such as the banks dying, forget it. Psychopaths (even if they be institutions) are their most dangerous when put up against a corner.

        In my opinion, if a virus doesn’t unleash on a populace, then debt internees will be marched into family camps since the land is owned by the earth financed through a bank as demanded by the UN.

        “Sometimes the banks rip off the public. Sometimes the public rips off the banks. We live in immoral times. We have become an immoral people who can’t be relied on to voluntarily repay our debts. We are therefore unworthy of credit—and credit will therefore be withheld. As credit is restricted, the credit card industry will tend to wither or even die.”

        If there’s a cow that stops giving you milk… do you starve for milk? No, you slaughter the cow.

        Is a baby weaned on it’s mother’s teat for the rest of it’s life? No it, brings out it’s teeth… and bites hard. And we’re going to feel it, and we’re going to feed it what we can.

        And if that baby grows to be a nephilim giant… will it even eat it’s mother?

         
      • sem

        August 21, 2012 at 9:44 AM

        This chain of thought is along the lines of what I would expect to happen. In fact, I presumed, while reading the article, that Chinese gentleman was banking on the same concept. But, the I realized from another article that the situation was 10yrs old. Hence, the question. Thank you.

        PeaceOut

         
  2. jacqueline

    August 20, 2012 at 10:33 PM

    It seems to me that they will eventually have to come to an amicable settlement and give us all fair market value on our homes, and forgive the alleged debts as well. The truth is, they were paid the moment the consumer applied for the credit card, they were paid with the payments the consumer made, they were paid their rediculous interest rates on the aalleged credit card or line of credit. And believe me, the made an outstanding profit.
    Credit cards are a continuing series of offers to contract, and they are not transferable, therefore , once a credit card debt defaults and is transfered, assigned or sold to a debt collector/debt buyer its extinguished,, “and” there is no surviving contract. Now the original contract/application with your signature on it was at some point securitized, (as banks and credit card companies securitize just about everything that isn’t bolted down) and all that remains is a computer generated copy. Which does not stand up in a court of law, “unless you allow it to.”
    It’s like this; You have a car. Then you sell the car, but you keep the hub caps. You now have evidence that there was once a car, but you just do not have the car to prove it. it’s as simple as that.
    These debt collectors have purchased evidence of a debt, and attempt to collect money for the debt based on that evidence that there was once a debt. It almost kind of rhymes , dosent it.

     
    • KAI

      August 21, 2012 at 7:37 AM

      There are at least 5 strategies that have worked to get your home free and clear due to holder in due course being the lynchpin of all debt claims…

      incidently enough if you stick to the FCCA you can turn IRS claims into presentments and force them to verify the claim :) they normally send back letters, the account shows 0 for that time period now…no worries :) or they double down and hope you squeal…

       
    • sem

      August 21, 2012 at 9:49 AM

      Very interesting.

       
      • Yartap

        August 21, 2012 at 11:29 AM

        KAI,

        I agree, sem. Very Interesting.

        KIA – I would like to hear more. But, I ask when you explain, please don’t assume we all understand what you are taking about (at lease for me).

        When you have time.

        Thanks KIA,

        Yartap

         
  3. KAI

    August 21, 2012 at 7:20 AM

    Dont have a lot of time today, but I’ve done all this and its NOT for the reasons cited above. At the end of the day, I ask them verify their claim in pursuant to FDCA or FCCA. In particular I simply ask them to swear under oath they lent me THEIR money. (I am the note maker, watch this $hit…UCC is built to the note maker but most of us dont get WHO that is…WHO added the squiggly lines?)

    See the open dirty secret is their is no money, its all basically presentments and bankers acceptance. Its legalized circle jerking and you’ve got to be nominated to lead one. At the end of the day the bankers NEED my signature for their scam to work.

    Quick story. I got one of those $1200 checks in the mail…makes claims to be a loan even though it says promissory note all over it. I sign it all rights reserved without prejudice and sign. I get a call 14 days later from the company that sent it. They sent a letter. I send one back, they send the exact same letter saying contact them. I do, but simply to ask them to dictate their concerns in writing…they send a letter claiming I owe and ignore my request. I send one back saying if I do, you ought to talk to the fiduciary of the estate cuz I am the beneficiary.

    Some may say I got 1200 free and clear. I dont disagree, in fact this is the how it happens on high finance streets but its kept hidden from purview. The actual accounting, On the bank side who lent me my own money – they debit cash and they credit what? an asset account? So they are balanced, they have a piece of paper worth $1200 on their end in exchange for $1200 cash…right? does anyone disagree with me here? K…so then why dont they sell the 1200 note and get their cash back? Sell to who? FED…let them discharge the claim against the private value of my estate/trust.

    I’ve skipped some things surely, I am short on time, but basically in 1933 your were bonded and you accepted your value upon registration of the LIVE BIRTH. The other layers have been covered around these parts. This is the lynch pin to the system btw…I’ve destroyed something like 8K in CC debt this way and I am close to getting rid of my student loan. Either way though I have PLAN B which is to stop playing in this god forsaken system but I am currently forced into it through a basic desire to survive…I am working with others to invert this so that we may all THRIVE and not have to worry about money because if you only knew what I just told you, you’d be ready to get rid of it… currently the only thing keeping us in check is a few circles of people who considered themselves elite…oh and we calling them elite too :)

     
  4. xenatheprincesswarrior

    August 21, 2012 at 9:14 AM

    I agree with KAI. If you google credit card securitization there is a direct link to FDIC’s website on how to do it. Sound familiar? Isn’t that what was done to RE loans. The bank loaned nothing. The bank was paid. They are not a real party of interest. Then they sell the supposed debt to someone else who really isn’t a real party to the action. All fake.

    Also, validation of the debt is what needs to be done along with the verification. My experience has been that if you ask for verification they send a copy of the note. A copy? Where’s the original.

    See for yourself. I could be wrong, but I smell a big rat and just another ponzi scheme. And of course, they, the powers, have no problem putting anyone in prison for debt.

    http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/examinations/credit_card_securitization/

     
    • KAI

      August 21, 2012 at 2:52 PM

      Student loans fall somewhere close to this as well.

      It is illegal to securitize the original note (maybe it is same with RE, I just missed the link). So what they do is make a copy of it and securitize the copy…proving all this and forcing them to discharge it against them is the issue…

      Either way I can get a stalemate, which is better than courts…just can’t determine how to move forward after that. The guy that claims he knows wants like $2K…though he does have proof from Sallie Mae, SORT OF…something called TRADELINE and another term I learned but forgot at the moment!

       
  5. manawainui

    August 22, 2012 at 4:45 AM

    Al,

    Very good article… thanx. also, great posts by everyone.

    I just wanted to share that I have an alleged claim put on my legal person (presumption of law) where a third party debt collector (de facto law firm) has been trying to collect an alleged debt from me. This means that the cc company has charged off the alleged account and sold the note to this third party debt collector. This third party debt collector/interloper then presumes to be the owner of the alleged note.

    Now, I have done an administrative process, first with the cc company then with the third party debt collector; they both defaulted and tacitly agreed to the default. Months go by and now the cc company has put an alleged claim against me and is using the third party debt collector/interloper as their counsel in the suit. this is funny because and correct me if I’m wrong, the cc company has allegedly sold the note to the third party debt collector, and now they (the cc company) are acting as if they are the note holder in due course again after selling the alleged note.

    By doing this confusing shell game, it is clear that the cc company and the third party debt collector/interloper are operating in fraud and collusion. I think that they have helped me to raise the issue that the original note must be produced in order to find the real note holder in due course; because copies will not be sufficient enough as material evidence; anyone could make copies, their could be a hundred copies of the note and thus does that mean that a hundred different claims be made to collect on one debt? I DON’T THINK SO, IN FACT I KNOW NOT SO.

    Everyone please feel free to comment here…. am I right, wrong, sort of right sort of wrong. tell me what you all think.

    Love&Gratitude*2

     
  6. Adask

    August 22, 2012 at 11:25 AM

    You imply that the debt collector is a law firm. You presume they sold the note to the debt collector. If you don’t have evidence of that sale, that’s not necessarily true. You have to read all of the paperwork with great intensity. More, I believe that if they send you notices (and what else can they send you) your proper response may be to ask questions. Instead of making presumptions, why not write one letter to the debt collector and another to the CC company and ask both who CURRENTLY owns the note for the alleged debt? You might follow up with a second question–especially to the debt collector–have you EVER owned the note or other evidence of the alleged debt? How ’bout, Have you ever conducted yourself in a manner that implies that you owned the alleged debt? Heck, you start thinking about this and you might want to know if a debt can be purchased from the original creditor and “paid for” with other debt instruments (FRNs).

    If you don’t tell each recipient that you’re asking some of the same question of the other recipient, you might get lucky and get two contradictory answers. I wouldn’t bet on it. But it’s possible. Then, if you kept the envelopes that the notices came in, you might have evidence of mail fraud.

    From my perspective, the object is not to argue with these guys, but rather to ask questions.

     
    • manawainui

      August 22, 2012 at 5:37 PM

      Al,

      Man, you have a very good way of putting things; thanx for the support.

      These “questions” you speak of, would you put it into a motion or pleading or just as a discovery tool?

      thanx, Mana

       
      • Adask

        August 22, 2012 at 8:22 PM

        it depends. Ideally, I prefer to ask questions in response to their notices long before the case ever gets to court. You may already be deep into the court process that you’re questions might only be posed as part of discovery or perhaps as questions to be asked in court of sworn witnesses. More, I don’t know where to necessarily apply those questions beyond responding to an adversary’s notices. You’re going to have to use your own judgment as to where, when and how you pose such questions. Nevertheless, I am highly confident that questions may be the key to defeating adversaries.

         
  7. homelessholocaust

    August 22, 2012 at 5:49 PM

    I have never used a “credit” card, therefore I am “Ineligible” to obtain one (I am now 62 Years Old) so I have learned to SAVE up to buy what I need (NOT what I “want’) and to utilise “Lay Away” for things I “NEED” ….PLUS+ I never, ever watch TV. My Family Tree includes Edward L. Bernays, so I am versed in the “Engineering the Herd Mind” to “Consume Garbage” I recently bought the book “Trust Us, We’re Experts!” by Sheldon Rampton & John Stauber. If people only knew…….

     
  8. bus driver

    August 29, 2012 at 11:16 PM

    these are delusional remarks take these points and apply:
    - all credit is debit – all cards are debit cards
    - banks and even more CCC’s do not lend money this is in all their bylaws/ charters
    - banks dont make money on the loan but on the fractional monetization of the security (your loan/card)
    - the producers have always been energizing the credit
    so look this up
    im the bus driver – i take everyone to school

     

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