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Slick Production Values?

24 Apr

US Edition Cover, May 1971

US Edition Cover, May 1971 (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

As I’ve previously explained, I don’t believe that the Christ and God are one in the same.  I believe that our Father YHWH ha Elohiym is God and the Christ is His Son.  Many people agree with that belief.

Many others disagree.

I can’t say whichever belief is right.  I can only say that my belief is honest and sincere.  Given the intellect and information available to me, my belief is the best I’m currently able to embrace.

Here’s a video that’s based on the belief that God and the Christ are one.  I disagree with that premise but, nevertheless, I find the video to be a powerful and delivered by speaker with a style that I’d love to see on the pulpit.  I find the video inspirational.

Faced with the power of this video, I feel able overlook the video’s belief that God and Christ are one being.  For me, the video “works” despite my belief in the God/Christ duality.

Still, I find the video perplexing.  If my belief (that God and the Christ are two different entities) is correct, can this video be as spiritually powerful as I suppose it to be?  In other words, can a controversial but fundamental premise (that God and Christ are one) be wrong and the remainder of the video still be both true and spiritually powerful?

In the alternative, is my belief in the duality of God and Christ simply mistaken despite the fact that I can’t yet see that I’ve made an error?  Am I impressed by the spiritual power of this video?  Does that spiritual power overwhelm my errant beliefs?

Or does the video’s power primarily flow from strong, technical production values rather than spiritual force?

I like this video.  But it’s so well done on a technical basis, that I can’t help wondering if I’m primarily impressed by its spiritual force, or by its “slick” technical production values.   If I’m primarily impressed by the video’s “slick” production values, am I being blessed to someone’s extraordinary ability to communicate in the video medium?  Or do those “slick” production values render me more susceptible to deception?

Again, I like this video.  Again, I’m inspired by this video.  It makes my eyes moist.  But it’s also so slick, that I don’t necessarily trust it.  I’m a little put off by the strong production values.

I’m reminded of the lyrics of “Jesus Christ Superstar” where Judas asks the Christ,

Every time I look at you
I don’t understand
Why you let the things you did
Get so out of hand
You’d have managed better
If you’d had it planned
Now why’d you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?

If you’d come today
You could have reached the whole nation
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication

In other words, why did the Christ choose to deliver his message with such poor “production values”?  He was probably never heard by more than a few thousand people at a time, and usually spoke to only a handful.  Why didn’t he come today when He could’ve had a gig on Jay Leno or Rush Limbaugh and reached millions?

So, I’m wondering if God’s message and the Christ’s message can really be spread by means of “mass communication” and “slick” production values.  Is it possible that God’s message can only be effectively delivered by one man or woman to another or at most, by one preacher, to one congregation–face to face, so to speak?

I don’t think that’s true.  I think God can use the inarticulate as well as the “slick” to communicate His message.  He might even be able to use blogs like this one to sometimes communicate a bit of His truth.  If I didn’t believe that, why would I write an article like this one on spiritual issues?

Even so, the production values of the following video are so slick, that I’m not sure whether I’m being inspired by spiritual truth, or by slick production values, or maybe both.

What do you think?  Do you find this video inspirational?  Do you trust this video?  Is the video delivering solid theology?  Or is it delivering a very slick brand of cheer-leading?

video     00:11:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPIOkdNL-QQ&feature=player_embedded#!

 
168 Comments

Posted by on April 24, 2013 in Belief, Bible, Spiritual War, Video

 

Tags: , ,

168 responses to “Slick Production Values?

  1. bandit

    April 24, 2013 at 1:40 PM

    “I and my Father are one.” John 10:30
    The body and blood of Christ, as with all of creation is bound by time. The message is eternal as is the creator. Christ is the living symbol of our creator, and this could be a key as not to fall into the trap of idolatry.

     
    • Adask

      April 24, 2013 at 2:19 PM

      It’s not clear if “I and my Father are one” means that they one being or of one and the same purpose. If the Christ and God are one, why does the Christ refer to God as “my Father”? Is the Christ telling us He’s his own Father or his own son? Why did the Christ refer to “my Father” rather than “the Father”? If the Christ and God are one, it makes no sense for the Christ to claim that He is His own Father. But if the Christ and God are one, it could makes sense to have said “I and the Father are one”. The only way “I and my Father are one” makes sense to me is if “I” (the Christ) and “my Father” (God) means that two entirely different beings are “one” in the sense that the two being have “one” purpose.

      The Bible teaches that God is the “ever-living,” eternal and cannot die–not even for an instant. But if God and the Christ are one, God died on the cross. How can God be “ever-living” and still die? And if God died once, what’s to say He can’t die again? And if the God/Christ didn’t actually die on the cross, then He deceived us and the fundamental premise behind Christianity (that the Christ died for our sins) is false.

      From that perspective, the Christian faith only works if God and the Christ are two separate and different beings.

       
      • bandit

        April 24, 2013 at 3:23 PM

        the meaning behind “I and my father are one” does not mean they are identical, but have the same power to command. Purpose i have thought of as it also came to mind very quickly, but i don’t think this true. Christ has a purpose differing from the creator as in Christ is being the way towards knowledge of the Supreme being itself.

         
      • Jerry S

        April 24, 2013 at 3:29 PM

        @ >From that perspective, the Christian faith only works if God and the Christ are two separate and different beings.
        You are right !! The same as You & “your son” (if you have a son) are two different beings. It is the Elohim Father who did not die. His “son” did & did so voluntarily. He did not have to, he chose to. I & my Father are one means one in purpose,like minded, “They” do not disagree with each other. It’s the word “God” that makes it confusing. “God” consists of MORE than one being. I do not know how many, but I do know there are at least two.

         
      • Chosen one

        April 25, 2013 at 7:35 PM

        Who is this?
        Isaiah 44:6, 48:12, Rev. 1:8, 1:17&18

         
      • Adask

        April 25, 2013 at 8:13 PM

        The Christ did not speak in Isaiah 44:6–Isaiah did.

        But you’re right in regard to Revelation 1:8, 17-18. The Christ is quoted as saying, “I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.” That certainly sounds as if the Christ is claiming to be God.

        I can’t ignore or easily refute your verses in Revelation. But you also can’t ignore or easily refute the verses in Gospels that tell us that Christ was praying to God in the Garden and talking to God just before He died on the cross. I don’t think it’s reasonable to dismiss those verses as merely a couple of “mysteries”. Either those verses are true or false. If those verses are false, the foundation for our faith in the Bible’s accuracy must be shaken. If those verses are true, then it seems apparent that God and the Christ are two entirely different beings, or that the God/Christ is schizophrenic and likes to talk/pray to “Himself”.

        There are some things that you can’t easily refute under the cloak of “mystery”.

        In any case, your original email argued that “The Chief priest wouldn’t have crucified him if they hadn’t understood that he was claiming to be God.” And I was asking where is the verse, prior to His Crucifixion where the Christ expressly claimed to be God. Revelation quotes a claim after He died and rose, but so far as I know, the Christ made no such claim prior to His Crucifixion. If the Christ made no such claim before he was crucified, you are mistaken in your belief that the Chief priest crucified Him because he claimed to be God.

        All of which still leaves me with the “mystery(ies)” of who was the Christ praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane, and to whom was He speaking when He said, “Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?” If Christ is God, and the Christ prayed at the Garden, was He praying to Himself? Was He taking to Himself as he hung near death on the cross? If the Christ was God, who does God pray to–another one of his “persons”?

         
      • Jerry S

        April 25, 2013 at 9:56 PM

        @ >The Christ did not speak in Isaiah 44:6–Isaiah did.
        If for an example,you ask me to deliver a message for you & I do this,y es, it is I who “speaks” the message but you are the creator/author of the message.I am acting in the capacity of your secretary “so to speak.” ALL scripture (BOTH old & new Books) is given/written by “inspiration” of “God.” HOWEVER ! This only applies to the ORIGINAL scriptures,NOT ANY translations. This is part of the problem also. BUT they can be “solved.” It just takes time. I haven’t solved a lot of them either.It does not take long tho, to understand the “Commandments.” E.g.,Matthew 19:16 > Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

        17“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

        18“Which ones?” he inquired.

        Jesus replied, “You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother, and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.”

        20“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

        21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

        22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

        23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

        25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

        26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

        “God” is the “Father” being referred to in the above scriptures. The same “one” “Jesus” prayed to.

         
    • Anon4fun

      April 27, 2013 at 12:08 AM

      John 10:30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

      In saying “I and my Father are one”, Jesus meant he was the Son of God, not God himself.

      John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

      Those claiming “Jesus is God” must read this verse to mean Jesus is greater than himself.

      1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

      Those claiming “Jesus is God” imply a similarly illogical conclusion in this case.

      Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass…

      Jesus gave himself the Revelation found in the book of the same name, apparently.

      Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

      Who is this “my God” of whom Jesus speaks? Jesus himself, which makes Jesus his own God, according to the “Jesus is God” illogic.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 27, 2013 at 2:58 PM

        Anon4fun
        @ > April 27, 2013 at 12:08 AM
        Believe it or not,I was going to leave a message today asking, Anon4fun, where are you? Are you ok,etc. ? Now, I do not have to as I see you have FINALLY come back. I did miss you. Honest.

        @ > In saying “I and my Father are one”, Jesus meant he was the Son of God, not God himself.
        Isn’t it also saying he, Christ, is not the, Father “God?”

        @ >Those claiming “Jesus is God”
        Is it wrong to say I believe “Jesus” IS the Son of God?

        @ > 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

        Rather than too many Chiefs & not enough Indians, I definitely do see a “chain of command” here, which I believe is necessary to have & keep things in order even tho they ARE allowed to get out of order but never enough to “thwart” the “overall” plan & purpose of “YHWH.” But,once again, the translation saying the head of Christ is “God” & NOT saying the head of Christ is “God” the Father,& comparing ALL other scriptures where the word “God” is written,it certainly is clear to me,at least,that there is “the Father and the Son” and the Son IS of a lower “rank” than the Father, who IS the Real Commander & Chief, & the Son is 2nd in command, or let’s say, for an example only,”The Father” is the President & the Son is the Vice President, use these terms to get an understanding in finite terms of who is in charge.

        @ >Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass…

        Here again, we have a “translation” hang-up.”God” the Father GAVE “God” the Son the “Revealing” & “God” the Son gave the Revealing to John to reveal to, I would think, whoever “God” calls to understand it.

        @ > Who is this “my God” of whom Jesus speaks?
        It’s the same one “Jesus” called or cried out to in John 27:46 > “Eli, Eli, lema
        sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). <The words, "which means" is the translator's opinion of what "Eli, Eli, means. I have my understanding of what it means, you have yours,& everyone else has theirs.
        ANON !!! Glad you are back !!! I did miss you,honest.

         
      • Anon4fun

        April 29, 2013 at 5:18 PM

        Thanks, Jerry. I’m glad you are still here also. I suddenly had way too much to do. Something had to give, which sadly turned out to be posting comments on the internet.

        > Isn’t it also saying he, Christ, is not the, Father “God?”

        Jesus is saying he is not the Father. Since there is no sign of a “God the Son” in scripture, the conclusion that he is not God in any capacity follows.

        > Is it wrong to say I believe “Jesus” IS the Son of God?

        Nothing could have changed this status, so it is not wrong.

        I don’t see any reason to put the name of Jesus in quotes. The authors of the New Testament, who were inspired by the Holy Spirit, called him Iesous, a Greek word the English equivalent of which is Jesus. Pending a source with better credentials, this pretty much settles the matter, in my opinion.

        > Here again, we have a “translation” hang-up. “God” the Father GAVE “God” the Son the “Revealing” & “God” the Son gave the Revealing to John to reveal to, I would think, whoever “God” calls to understand it.

        But there is no mention of a “God the Son” in scripture.

        Elsewhere in Revelation, the Son himself refers to a certain Being as “my God”. While in some places Jesus calls him his Father, Jesus definitely does refer to him as his God. Therefore, since God does not have a God, Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Son of God.

        Regarding “contractions” in the Bible, this term is vague enough to make productive discussion difficult, a fact which atheist activists try to get lots of mileage from when slandering God’s word. I would prefer the phrase “incompatible claims” (of fact), of which there is not a one in the Bible that anyone can make a passable case for, though I have seen many attempts. They all fall flat, usually due to the flimsy if not entirely absent scholarship characteristic of mass propaganda.

         
      • Anon4fun

        April 29, 2013 at 6:46 PM

        “contractions” = “contradictions”

         
  2. Oldraskill

    April 24, 2013 at 1:45 PM

    Look no further then a mirror for God, if it happens, it’s your fault! it’s our fault!
    He Is, I Am, We Are.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 25, 2013 at 3:49 PM

      Oldraskill
      @ > if it happens, it’s your fault! it’s our fault! He Is, I Am, We Are.
      Huh? Say what? Are you saying you are I am?

       
  3. dasanco

    April 24, 2013 at 2:22 PM

    to answer your question brother Al … I’d go with the “slick’ answer!

    very nicely done “fair-tale of war” … but nevertheless 1) a fairy-tale, and 2) a war story.

    we are already living that life. one of a fairy-tale, and that of war. and it is precisely our problem.

    there is nothing to come-into-us that might help … there is no external force that will ‘work’ through us. it is all the fairy-tale.

    we already have the power, the spirit, the gift … we are all born with it. we fight it daily. we act irresponsibly against our brother. we act with LIMITED liability for our action. we proceed through live without the knowledge that PEACE and RESPONSIBILITY, which is nearly all that matters to this existence. and we fight THEM BOTH, at every opportunity we get!

    every thing we need IS already within … we must only seek that consciousness. it WILL provide every answer needed. it is the source connection to all, as we are all of One. and if we continued with this war, this controversy, this conflict … we continue the war with our self, the One. and that perpetuates the belligerence, the defiance, the constant seeking of an external answer which cannot possible exist, a state of limited liability (irresponsibility). because the war is within … a war that has neither a winner, nor an end … until we go to peace, and become responsible for our self.

    savior or truth … pick One?

    and the circle continues.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 12:06 AM

      @ >to answer your question brother Al … I’d go with the “slick’ answer!
      I think even ex Prez Bill Clinton will agree with that !!!

       
  4. Anthony Clifton

    April 24, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    totally disgusting…

    the good news of the Gospel is that we can be free by Knowing the Truth…

    http://www.godsaveamericaagain.com/history.php

    no one HAS to live in spiritual Bondage in the stool sculpture deity cult compound…[John 8:32]

    http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2013/04/23/25-correctional-officers-inmates-indicted-for-gang-activity-in-baltimore-jails/

    Israel went into captivity and Judah never was named Israel…

    http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/Israel_Not_Captive.htm

    Ever since the reign of Jeroboam, Israel had rejected Yahweh and worshiped Baal and the Golden Calf; and the retribution was not long in coming. Like all other nations that have defied the Almighty, Israel also had to pay for their folly, although they did not know the why and the wherefore of their punishment; neither does Israel of today, Ephraim (United States); Asher (Sweden); Manasseh (Great Britain); Gad (Italy); Judah (Germany); Reuben (Holland); Simeon (Spain); Issachar (Finland); Naphtali (Norway); Dan (Denmark); Zebulun (France); Benjamin (Iceland), realize the cause of their depression. Natural reactions have their cause in spiritual neglect; for every bad deed there is a punishment, just as the depression of the 30s had its source in the spiritual decay of our age; but our nation does not seem to grasp it yet. So also did natural enemies like Assyria and Babylon arise to carry out the Divine Judgment upon a God {rejecting} people…..

    http://www.blacklistednews.com/Guest_Post%3A_24_Signs_That_Our_Once_Proud_Cities_Are_Turning_Into_Poverty-Stricken_Hellholes/25526/0/38/38/Y/M.html

    Genesis 49 & Deut. 32 . . .No proselytes to Talmudic Judaism in the Text !!

    America is not being “Blessed”….for Blessing the [Khazar] Proselytes to Talmudic Judaism posing allegedly as all 12 Tribes…

    The Good News is Jesus said Know the Truth….!!!

    Escape the Bondage

     
  5. Jerry S

    April 24, 2013 at 2:49 PM

    The video did not impress me at all but the following scriptures do as to “who’s who & what’s what.”

    Hopefully the following “scriptures” & remembering that ALL scripture is given by inspiration of YHWH (aka “God”) for the following reasons, ALL scripture IS profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. So I personally hope what follows will unpersuade you of your “current” opinion,hopefully that is. If they do, then I have been of some help on your blog.

    John 1:3, “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” (Who but “God” can do this, & do what the next scripture says?)
    Col. 1:16-17, “For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
    Rev. 2:8, “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.” (Who died & came to life again & did what the above 2 scriptures say? Does it appear to be Christ the Messiah?)
    Job 33:4, “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
    Isaiah 40:28, “Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.” (Notice the creator of the ends of the earth? Is this scripture in harmony with the rest?)
    Rev. 1:17, “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.’”
    Rev. 22:13, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
    John 8:58, “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” See Exodus 3:14 ( For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

    1 John 1 >>
    New Living Translation
    Introduction

    1 We proclaim to you the one who existed from the beginning, whom we have heard and seen. We saw him with our own eyes and touched him with our own hands. He is the Word of life. 2. This one who is life itself was revealed to us, and we have seen him. And now we testify and proclaim to you that he is the one who is eternal life. He was with the Father, and then he was revealed to us. 3. We proclaim to you what we ourselves have actually seen and heard so that you may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4. We are writing these things so that you may fully share our joy.

    5 This is the message we heard from Jesus and now declare to you: God is light, and there is no darkness in him at all. 6 So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness; we are not practicing the truth.7 But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

    FAMILY > The Apostle Paul said: “For this reason I bow my knees (in adoration and worship) to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom THE WHOLE FAMILY in heaven and earth is named …” (Ephesians 3:14-21).

    Mother,Brothers & Sisters > Mark 3:33-34 >Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” ( While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” ( < Actual physical family)

    48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” ( When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6. Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” ( < This is one time I agree with those teachers of the law)

     
    • Jerry S

      April 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM

      P.S.
      And “God” said,”let US make man in OUR image.One of these “us-es” emptied himself of his glorious “spiritual” position & became flesh & blood. He “volunteered” Since this being was/is the “Creator” of all things, & since the “Creator is superior to that which is created, his life’s blood is more than sufficient to cover the death penalty for ALL flesh & blood beings who REPENT, and, STAND FIRM until their life is over & those will not experience “the 2nd death.” “… The lake of fire is the second death. …. …” Revelation 20:14; … The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God……” Revelation 20:6;.. “The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death. … Whoever is victorious will not be harmed by the second death”. … Rev.2:11

       
  6. bigbookharry

    April 24, 2013 at 3:21 PM

    I’m with you Adask, scripture clearly and consistently portrays Jesus and the Father possessing separate personalities. Jesus is a creator son. through Him all this were made. John/Hebrews. I like to think of it as the Father supplied the materials and Jesus was the builder. Then there is
    Hebrews 1:8
    But of the Son He says,

    “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
    And the righteous scepter is the scepter of Your kingdom.

    Hebrews 1:9
    “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
    Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
    With the oil of gladness above Your companions.”

    Jesus is “A” God? This scripture is very clear (unambiguous) Are we to disregard truth that which does not fall in alignment with our personal views?

     
  7. keith

    April 24, 2013 at 4:21 PM

    I emailed this link to a friend who runs Home Town Hero in Kerrville, tx. and he sent me this great insperational video that explains the freeing of Barabbas.
    Jesus loves Barabbas

     
    • Jerry S

      April 24, 2013 at 5:44 PM

      Hi keith.
      Yeah,give us Barabbas. Well you know keith,birds of a feather.I noticed the “Jesus” in this video has long hair which IS the “crowning glory” of a female.” The scripture inspired of “God” says it is a SHAME for a MAN to have long hair but long hair on a woman is HER crowning glory. Satan, the masterful deceptor,STILL EVERY YEAR has most people seeing “Jesus” as a little helpless baby & a few months later, a dead man on a cross.BOTH are powerless. Why do most people want to keep him this way,a new born infant & / or a dead man on a cross? Why can’t we “see him AS HE IS TODAY? There ARE Scriptures that describe him AS HE IS TODAY. Why is this not important?

       
  8. Yartap

    April 24, 2013 at 6:33 PM

    Why Jesus the Christ must be God.
    What is the purpose of the Christ? Jesus said, “I have come to seek and save that which was lost” or the “lost sheep.” Who or what was lost? To understand who or what was lost, one must know the history of Israel as found in the Old Testament to know how it relates to the New Testament (Both Testaments are know as the “Two Witnesses” of Christ in Revelations.).

    As history relates to the Old Testament, if one does not know who the House of Israel and the House of Judea is, then one will not know Christ’s purpose. After King David, the history shows that all of Israel (13 tribes) divided into the House of Israel (10 northern tribes) and into the House of Judea (3 southern tribes). Both tribes had their own Kings, priests, prophets and histories. And God became upset with both houses and punished both. First, the House of Israel was captured by the Assyrians and then the House of Judea was taken into captivity by King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon. But, something was done to the House of Israel by God that was not done to the House of Judea. God DIVORCED the House of Israel and scattered them; but He did not divorce the House of Judea. This is discussed in Isaiah, Jeremiah 3:8, Jeremiah 23:1-8, Jeremiah 50:17, Ezeliel and Hosea 1:6.

    With the seriousness of divorce, we must look at the divorce law as found in Deuteronomy 24: 1-4. It states that when a man divorces a woman, then she may become another man’s wife; if she marries again and the latter (next) husband divorces her or the new husband dies, the former husband may not re-marry her.

    So, God divorced the House of Israel. So, according to God’s law which He cannot break, He has lost the House of Israel, but not the House of Judea. But, we also read that God remembered His covenant with Abraham. This covenant was to make Abraham’s family His Covenanted People (God’s chosen people) in a “everlasting covenant” (Genesis Chapter 17). We see and read in Ezekiel Chapter 37 that God’s plan is to reunite both Houses into one House. So, how is God going to get the House of Israel back? Can He get them back?

    The answer and purpose is Jesus Christ. Jesus’s purpose is stated in Jesus’s answer to the woman of Canaan where He said, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Read Matthew 15: 21-27. Hear is His purpose. Remember, the lost sheep of Israel are scattered amongst the nations of the world at that time. How do we know? First it is stated by God, and second we have the story of the Roman Centurion in Matthew 8: 1-10. Note the difference of how Jesus treats the centurion verses the Canaanite woman. As Jesus said in other scriptures, “My sheep hear my voice and they know me.”

    So, Jesus’s purpose is to redeem (buy back) the house of Israel to bring all of Israel back together as one tribe, as one people. But how is He going to do it?………

    The answer is found in Paul’s answer to the question in Romans 7: 1-4 and think about it. Once the husband (God/Jesus Christ) dies the wife is free from the marriage law to be married to another or to be reunited (redeemed) even unto Him (God/Jesus Christ) who is raise from the grave. Thus, through His death, burial and resurrection we are gathered back to God.

    So, because of a divorce law, we have the advent of God’s only begotten Son, who died upon a cross for our people’s sins to redeem us back unto God. The Christ must be God in order to do this.

     
  9. Chris Rogers

    April 24, 2013 at 7:08 PM

    Jesus is God incarnate. This I believe, no, this I know with all my heart. Jesus made one statement that alone, even without any others, establishes this fact beyond all doubt. So yes, I think you are mistaken in your belief in a fundamental duality between God and Jesus. A few thoughts ….

    We read in Exodus 3:14-15: “Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,; and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I saw to them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “:Say this to the people of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you.”

    And then in John 8:58 we read: “Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.'”

    The Jews clearly understood this statement, and so can we. It can be understood in no other way than that Jesus clearly declared himself to be God. If he had made no other claims to his divinity, which he did, this statement alone would be enough to establish his identity. Jesus was and is God.

    But trying to understand the mystery of the incarnation with the human intellect as you have done and are trying to do is futile. As it says in this video at 9:49, “You can’t muster up the intellect.” God himself said in Isaiah 55:8-9, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts. Neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.” This mystery of the incarnation, along with other intellectually unknowable mysteries, can be known only by faith and revealed by God himself.

    It requires humility and a deep, deliberate act of the will to surrender reliance on one’s own intellect, and choose to embrace this truth by faith. But therein lies the paradox, that only by making this act of faith can the truth finally be understood with the intellect also. It is by His intellect within, and not by our own, that this truth may be apprehended.

    I have personal experience of this. Although I am far from fully sanctified, and work out my own salvation day by day, with trembling, as Paul said, I have nevertheless had times of spiritual vision and insight that I know without a shadow of a doubt were His and not my own. It was His Spirit I heard, His thoughts I thought, His feelings I felt. And it is by the witness of His Spirit that I know deep in my soul that Jesus is God.

    However, he is also a man, a fully human man. You said in your earlier post, “He is a transitional being that was neither fully divine in the sense of being “God” nor fully human in the sense of being a mortal born to an earthly mother and an earthly father.” That’s a faulty statement. What it should say is that he is both fully divine in the sense of being “God” AND “fully human in the sense of being completely mortal.” It’s both-and, not neither-nor. This is the mystery. Ask Him to reveal it to you, in humble faith, without an intellectual chip on the shoulder, in deep desire to know Him, and He will. God has promised in Jeremiah 29:13, “‘You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you, says the Lord.'” The key is ALL YOUR HEART. You will never know Him until you come to the end of yourself, and that includes your own intellect.

    All the above notwithstanding, you (nor anyone else) are not saved by what you think *about* Jesus. You are saved by faith in his atoning sacrifice. And if you call on His name, you will be saved. Still, it is possible to fully know him in this world, as this Jeremiah says and this video so clearly shows. And though I could be wrong, I think the fact that you *like* the video shows that you do have a yearning to know Him. Whatever it takes for you to go to Him with “all your heart” I pray you will seek to do.

    The video is very powerful, very compelling, very appealing — because it’s true.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 28, 2013 at 1:37 PM

      Chris Rogers,Yartap,Tony,et.al.

      @ > Jesus is God incarnate. This I believe, no, this I know with all my heart. ( If you’re the only one who sees the truth, Jerry, then, by definition, you must be God (or at least the Christ).
      I,in no way claimed or said I’m the ONLY one who knows or “sees” the truth. I SAID, IF I am the ONLY ONE who SEES what is GOING ON HERE,referring to this “CAT & MOUSE GAME.”God” help us. Also, it is BIZARRE that only PART of what I write,for Alfred,is posted AFTER I click on the “Post Comment” button. This IS NOT meant to,in a subtle way, imply Alfred is causing this to happen. He has said he is not the cause of it & I do believe him. BUT,SOMETHING is causing it. One thing I do KNOW, YHWH is ALLOWING it to happen. I think he is telling me to quit beating a dead horse.

       
      • Adask

        April 28, 2013 at 8:15 PM

        If you are referring to me as a “dead horse,” I will admit to being somewhat elderly, but I deny that I have become a “dead horse”. Yet.

         
  10. Jerry S

    April 24, 2013 at 8:14 PM

    Chris Rogers,
    Explain this scripture. And “God” ( < THE Elohiym) said, let US make man in OUR image. Was this "God" absent minded & talking to himself pretending he had a companion? US & OUR are plural, more than one.Why didn't this "God" make Eve in the same manner he made Adam? He made Adam from the dust of the Earth. He made EVE FROM Adam? WHY? There must be a reason & I believe I know the reason but I'm curious as to what you think? I will be surprised if you respond however.But, I have been known to be wrong on many occasions.

     
  11. Tony

    April 24, 2013 at 8:57 PM

    One has the nature of the parent(s) one is an offspring of.

    Jesus was begotten of God in eternity past. Of course, He inherited His Father’s nature. Then, ~2000 years ago, Jesus was “born of a woman, born under the law” so that the Son of God could also be the son of man.

    I don’t like the term God the Son, but I love what Peter confessed Jesus to be: “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God!” which the Jews understood made Him equal with God.

    Blessings,

    Tony

     
  12. Chris Rogers

    April 24, 2013 at 9:30 PM

    Hi Jerry! I have no problem reconciling God’s use of “Let US” with Deuteronomy 6:4, which says, “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE.” Again, refer to Isaiah 55:8-9, where God proclaims how much higher his thoughts are than ours. We err when we try to make God fit into our limited understanding, instead of recognizing that if he did, he wouldn’t even be God. Rather we need to seek him sincerely and ask for him to reveal his thoughts to us, not demand that he explain why he doesn’t fit ours. God is both plural and single. John 1 tells us that Jesus was with God in the beginning, saying, “In the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Jesus was both with God and was [and is] God. It is a mystery.

    As I said, if we would just release our prideful attempts to make God fit our intellects, and humbly seek him in faith, it would and will become clear. But such understanding can never be argued successfully merely from a rational, intellectual, humanly logical standpoint. I believe God has made that purposefully so, because his way requires faith. Were we able to understand these mysteries without faith, there would be no need of it, and that is contrary to the way he has set things up to work.

    But in addition to his promise in Jeremiah, he also beckons us with the invitation in Psalm 34:”8, “Taste and see that the Lord is good.” I know it sounds unbearably smug to say, “You just have to have faith.” I didn’t understand it myself for a very long time, and got very upset when people tried to explain, as I’m trying now. But I do understand it now, and that is not of my own doing. It is entirely his. It was when I finally came to the end of myself that he had mercy on me and let me find Him. Try him.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 25, 2013 at 2:24 AM

      @>God is both plural and single.
      Thank you for responding,Chris. Plural to me, means more than one. Single to me, means only one. We were created with both a brain & a mind. I don’t believe the brain & the mind are one & the same thing. I believe thoughts are intangible but they can be made tangible. I believe “God” consisted of an infinite intelligent energy who partook of himself,& brought another being into existence & called this being his son. I don’t believe he partook of himself to bring into being the universe, however. I believe “this son” created the universe.I believe Yahshua is said to have existed eternally, because he came out of, from an eternal being,that infinite intelligent energy,& I believe the Adam & Eve creation is a physical example of the spiritual. Those who insist this is wrong say so because it does not FIT into his/her finite mind. The Apostle Paul mentions the “whole family” IN heaven. My Dad had several brothers & sisters,many beings but ONE family. You say,Chris, try him. How do you know I have not? Anyway, thanks again for responding. IF you very rarely got a response to anything you posted, you might also understand why I said what I did, but I also said I have been known to have been wrong on many occasions. I cannot say if you will agree or disagree with anything I have said about my beliefs because I cannot read hearts & minds. I will see my typos,etc., after I post this. Why is this? Thanks again, Chris.

       
  13. Chris Rogers

    April 24, 2013 at 10:21 PM

    Oh – and in the creation story, God made Eve from Adam to make it clear that she was the same kind of being, not different, not inferior, not a different kind, but of the same substance and being, fully equal, fully qualified to be his companion, as the beasts were not. By the way, “adam” simply means human. It’s not a name. Eve was adam too.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 25, 2013 at 2:28 AM

      …“adam” simply means human.
      We have man & we have woman (man with a womb) Why do we need the word “human?” Do we say he is a man human & she is a woman human?

       
      • Jerry S

        April 27, 2013 at 3:50 PM

        Chris Rogers
        @ > Oh – and in the creation story, ….

        Oh- and therefore if “God” made Eve in the same manner,exactly as he,”God” made Adam,it would not be clear that she was the same kind of being, not different, not inferior, not a different kind, but of the same substance and being, fully equal, fully qualified to be his companion ??? “God” later said to Adam,”DUST YOU ARE”…. < I guess this did not apply to Eve, right?

         
    • Jerry S

      April 25, 2013 at 10:18 PM

      Chris Rogers
      April 25, 2013 at 9:55 PM
      Chris, the thing that is just as baffling to me as Alfred being “persuaded” that “Jesus” was not “God” incarnate is how a few of understand ALIKE that “Jesus” WAS “God” incarnate. When I pray, I close by saying Father, unless I am asking amiss, I ask for these “things” in the name of your Son, Yahshua I understand that I may not know how to pronounce or spell your Son’s name correctly but I do know that you know who I am referring to. Chris, I believe there ARE two beings who comprise a FAMILY consisting of the Father & the Son. There may be more than those two who comprise the “family” I don’t know, but once again, the Apostle Paul spoke of “THE WHOLE FAMILY” in HEAVEN.
      See Ephesians 3:14-21.

       
  14. Anthony Clifton

    April 25, 2013 at 3:54 AM

    there were never any so-called “Jews” [Khazar Proselytes] in the Old Testament…

    http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm

    the enemies of the Children of Israel are the same enemies today as they were 3,500 years ago

    http://www.israelect.com/reference/Willie-Martin/

    mostly they are the Children of Israel who have rejected the Laws of the Creator, but they are aided by the offspring of the Evil one…[John 8:44]

    Adam is not defined as Human…

    review the Baptism of Jesus…

    http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/LANGUAGE.htm

    ….rightly dividing the word of truth

    Zephaniah 3:9

    For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Almighty, to serve him with one consent.

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/29-standing-ovations-for-netanyahu/

    antonyms are not synonyms….[John 8:33]

    providentially “we” are given the freedom to adjudicate ourselves…individually [Matthew 7]

    Doug has provided keen insight on these matters previously

     
    • johannabernays

      April 25, 2013 at 11:59 PM

      Can you PLEASE stop with your totally absurd propaganda? Your Kansas Web ISBN is Listed as a Spam Site, You constantly post this same trash.

      The Test Absolutely Proves that Your Propaganda is Fale Jew Hate. I Challenge YOU to Take The Test! You may find you to be JEWISH yourself!

      Your JEW HATE isn’t new, The same LIE was promoted by MARTIN LUTHER, and the JESUITS created the whole idiotic idea! This Lie is as Old as Christopher Colombus!

      PR Newswire 2013-02-20: — The world’s lowest cost genetic test offers an introduction to the insights and knowledge to be gained from personal genetic and genomic research — HOUSTON, Feb. 20, 2013 /PRNewswire/ — FamilyTreeDNA.com, the genetic genealogy arm of Gene By Gene, Ltd., is dramatically lowering the price of one of its basic Y-DNA tests to $39, making it the lowest-cost DNA test available on the market, in order to take a major step toward universal access by individuals to their personal genetic data. By dropping the price of its basic Y-DNA test by 60 percent to $39,… more »

       
      • Jerry S

        April 26, 2013 at 12:21 AM

        @ > .”……the genetic genealogy arm of Gene By Gene, ……”
        Genes make love by first pulling down their Jeans. I know you know this,johannabernays, I thought there may be a couple of others who did not.
        @ > Your Kansas Web ISBN …..”
        Who posted this alleged Spam Site ? I missed something, as usual.

         
      • johannabernays

        April 26, 2013 at 1:25 AM

        7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

        8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

        9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

        10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

        11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

        12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

        13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

        14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

        15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
        John Chapter 17: Jesus Interceding
        Jesus Interceding
        John Chapter 17 : 15

        16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

        17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

        18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

        19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

        20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

        21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

        22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

        23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

        24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

        25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

        26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

         
  15. Huey Campbell

    April 25, 2013 at 4:34 AM

    Is a man’s son, the man?
    Why did God chose to become flesh and dwell among us, not as himself but as his son?
    “logos”,
    The idea, the thought, the concept of “God”, The “word”, was made flesh and dwelt among us.

    I’m getting ready to tell you something…………….Great is the mystery of Godliness.

    Folks, I’ve thought about it, I like thinking about it. I like reading about it. I like reading what others think about it. I believe the world has a creator. I believe the creator became part of his creation.
    But now when it comes to understanding, the truth is: “I don’t know nothing”

     
    • Jerry S

      April 25, 2013 at 3:36 PM

      Huey !!!!!
      My FRIEND. It is ALWAYS “uplifting” to hear from you The explanation you gave previously on how much “God” loves us made me weep. All I could think of was to say, heavenly Father thank you with all my heart & soul for loving Huey & others like Huey explained the depth of your love is.

      When the Apostle Paul said “oh wretched man that I am” & if he knew of me he would have added “and I,Paul only know of one other worse than I am” he,Paul would be referring to me, Huey. You see Huey, I am the one who betrayed the Messiah with a kiss. I am the one who scourged him. This doesn’t sound too bad unless people knew that each time the ball hit him, yes, in the face several times too, the crooked needles in the ball sank into his flesh like fish hooks & RIPPED his flesh open. I had to clean the flesh & blood off of my hands & the ball several times before I could proceed with the next lash,40 lashes in all. I beat him to a bloody pulp.He was so marred he did not even look look a man I was informed he lost consciousness a few times, & so I had to wait until he regained it back before I could proceed with the scourging because it is a waste to whip him when he is unconscious,right? He won’t feel the excruciating pain of each wasted lash.This did upset me,having to wait. The STAKE for the final portion of his punishment was very heavy & he fell to the ground under its weight so I was forced to appoint another to help him carry it. I did not like black people so I ordered a black male to do the job. Later, even after the Messiah was FINALLY dead, I had the pleasure of thrusting my doubled edged sword forcefully into his side. You should have seen the blood & other liquids that gushed out. I never laughed so hard in my life. There is more to explain but this is enough for you to chew on for a while. Still like me Huey??

       
    • johannabernays

      April 26, 2013 at 1:30 AM

      Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

      The Holy Name is the Tetragramaton. The Power is in Yahweh. All Power is in the Creator. The New Testament was written by ROME sorely to foster Terrorism against the Holy People of the Book- the Jews. Blatant JEW HATE.

      Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 26, 2013 at 5:43 AM

        johannabernays
        April 26, 2013 at 1:30 AM

        @ >The New Testament was written by ROME sorely to foster Terrorism against the Holy People of the Book- the Jews. Blatant JEW HATE.

        The next verse you use doesn’t sound like Terrorism against the Holy People of the Book- the Jews. Blatant JEW HATE.

        @ > Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

        The scripture above is in the New Testament and it doesn’t sound like something written by ROME sorely to foster Terrorism against the Holy People of the Book- the Jews. Blatant JEW HATE.

        What is it I am not understanding here?

         
    • Jerry S

      April 30, 2013 at 8:01 PM

      @ > Is a man’s son, the man?
      Man o Man, Huey !! A Man’s son becomes a man once he reaches the age of majority, BUT this still does not mean he is the “main man,” Man o man Huey, You sure come up with some good ones. Man o man o man. R U still my Buddy?

       
  16. rl

    April 25, 2013 at 4:35 PM

    Because Adask you are an analyser you tend to over think the answer. There is power in the name of Jesus. That is why the whole world either hates his name or loves his name. Child like faith. The Chief priest wouldn’t have crucified him if they hadn’t understood that he was claiming to be God. Either he is as he said God incarnate, or he is a liar and a fraud. There is no other options. The Holy Spirit convicts the heart of the truth. You know the truth, it’s not the movie its the Spirit unto salvation. God will move heaven and earth to reveal himself to those who seek him in Spirit and Truth. Salvation is not a intellectual decision, it is a soul decision. Love your site.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 25, 2013 at 6:03 PM

      rl
      April 25, 2013 at 4:35 PM
      Hi rl,
      I think it’s the word “God” that causes the confusion. As you,rl, know, the word “God” is the 16th century English translation of the word,in Hebrew,Elohiym. The Elohiym consisted of more than one being. If you & I are together,rl, you might say,let’s go for a ride on the motorcycles. If you and I are alone with nobody else around & say that,we have a mental problem. If another was able to see & hear you or I in a situation as that, you KNOW what he/she/they would think. Actually, it’s probably to simple for anyone with an “analyser” mind to see. If there are two “God” beings,& IF the saying that, “with God” all things are possible is true, then it would be easy to understand that either being is capable of becoming flesh & bone & blood & dying as such. I’m just happy that both didn’t decide to do that,i.e.,die. I believe Alfred is right tho when he says “God” cannot die & still be “God.” because Spirit beings don’t die. BUT a spirit being is capable of “transforming” himself into a being that CAN die & that’s what Yahshua DID & did so on his own free will. He did not have to do this.

       
    • Adask

      April 25, 2013 at 7:31 PM

      In which verse(s) did the Christ declare that He was God? I must’ve missed them.

      If the Christ was God, who was He praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane when the sweat ran down his face like drops of blood? Was God just faking that prayer to impress and deceive the yokels?

      If the Christ was God, what did he mean when he prayed to “God” that he “pass this cup”–but ultimately surrendered to God saying that, “not my will, but thy will be done”? If Christ is God, whose will was He surrendering to?

      When the Christ lay hanging on the cross, in agony and near death, who was he talking/praying to when he said “Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?” Was this merely more theological theater intended to impress and deceive the yokels?

      You’re right, I am something of an “analyzser”. But it’s not just analysis for the sake of being clever. It’s analysis to try to discover the truth. There’s at least one verse in Proverbs (if I recall correctly) that advises mankind to search for wisdom and presumably for truth. Faith is fine. Faith is good. But Muslims have faith, and Jews have faith, and Hindus have faith. So do Christians. In fact, the Methodists have faith, and the Mormons have faith, and the Baptists have faith–and each of these faiths is to some degree unique and different from the others. Are all of those faiths true? Or does only one faith illuminate the truth while the other faiths obscure the truth? My point is that anyone’s faith, if it’s false, can obscure the truth. That includes my faith. It also includes yours.

      For me, trying to discover the true faith may be achieved by not merely blind belief, but personal analysis. I may not have found the one, true faith, but I’ll bet that my analysis has moved me a lot closer to the truth than some who need not analyze, but only believe.

      The Pharisees were men who preferred to believe in a previous faith and therefore refused to “analyze” what many had seen and/or experienced. Those true believers (men who would not analyze new information) crucified the Christ. Today, the world is still full of “true believers” who would be happy to crucify the Christ, again, in order to hang onto their current beliefs.

      I suspect that many of these “true believers” are people who refuse to “analyze”. They are made just as apprehensive by information that challenges their faith, today, as the Pharisees were made apprehensive by miracles Christ performed 2,000 years ago.

      The Pharisees’ faith was so powerful that blinded them to the truth. Convinced that they must “believe,” they refused to recognize (and analyze) what they had seen. In order to maintain their faith, they preferred to kill the messenger rather than acknowledge the message. We have to presume that the “message” was sufficient for those willing to see, hear and, presumably, analyze. There were sufficient miracles and spoken words to make clear who the Christ was. The failure to communicate that message was not caused by some defect in the Christ but rather by the Pharisees’ refusal to see (and, I think, analyze). Why’d they refuse to see facts? Because they were blinded by their faith.

      Faith may be good, but an open mind is not necessarily bad.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 25, 2013 at 8:20 PM

        Remember Jesus saying, in Mark 2:5,Son, thy (your) sins are forgiven? Luke 5:20,& 7:48, Matthew 9:2.
        When the pharisees said to “Jesus” only “God” can forgive sins, the pharisees were/are 100% correct. See Mark 2:7, & Luke 5:21.
        We have 2 separate beings, “God” the Father,& “God” the Son. It’s apparently the word “God” that is causing the problem. Remember “God: saying,Let US make man in OUR image. I cannot explain WHY the word Elohyim was translated to “God” in the English back in the 16th century, but it was. Apparently the word “God” was understood at that time to be name of the Creator of the universe and this is all the people had to go on. We have the word, gasoline,aka fuel,aka petro, & aka other names in other countries. Back in your roofing days, IF you should say to me,we need to fix John Doolittle’s roof today, & you send me out to fix it, it is still WE in a sense. I remember a fella one time trying to get a jar top off/loose from a jar of pickles & he was having a problem. FINALLY, he said, “there we go, finally got it loose.” I have heard this expression used many times by different people. I have even “caught’ myself using it. Anyway, “God” as used in the English translations in both Old & New Covenants/Testaments IS NOT a SINGLE ENTITY. The Elohyim said, Let US make man in OUR image.

         
      • Jerry S

        April 25, 2013 at 8:38 PM

        @ > Faith may be good, but an open mind is not necessarily bad.

        I appreciate you phrasing your statement like you did because maybe sometimes we might leave or have our minds “open” to demonic influence. I believe I have at times.Some of the atrocious acts done by “gov-co” LAW enforcement have contributed to my “open mind” for demonic influence. I ant trying to pass the buck either. Oh, I think I spelled Elohiym wrong in my last post. I sorry. I would NEVER knowingly do that.

         
      • Chris Rogers

        April 25, 2013 at 9:55 PM

        In which verses did the Christ declare that He was God? I guess you did miss them, both in the Bible, and here. He declared it in several places, but this is the clearest:

        We read in Exodus 3:14-15: “Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,; and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I saw to them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “:Say this to the people of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you.”

        And then in John 8:58 we read: “Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.’”

        For Jesus to boldly declare his identity as “I AM” made clear to the Pharisees, and to anyone else who has read both these verses that He has proclaimed in no uncertain terms that He is God.

         
    • johannabernays

      April 25, 2013 at 11:50 PM

      Sorry, rl. You do NOT know your Bible. (I Do Not Infer you are dumb. Please. I am not being Mean, either.) Jesus gave His followers his FATHER’S Name & Commanded his Follower’s to “ASK IN THE ”””Father’s Name!””’
      John Chapter 16
      23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

      24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

      25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

      26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

      27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

      28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

      29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

      30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

      31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

      32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

      33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 26, 2013 at 1:08 AM

        johannabernays
        April 25, 2013 at 11:50 PM

        @ >Jesus gave His followers his FATHER’S Name & Commanded his Follower’s to “ASK IN THE ”””Father’s Name!””’23 ” ……… Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.”

        This must also be understood to mean asking anything OF the Father in the name of “Jesus” must be according to his,the Father’s will.Sometimes this is hard to figure out but most of the time it isn’t.

        The Father’s name is not quite the same as asking in Yahshua’s ( I came “forth from” the Father, is further evidence that I am correct when I say what I believe is the truth Re: the “origin” of the “God” who later became the Messiah(<Jesus). He came forth FROM him,i.e.,The Father. I also know it means, the Father "sent" Yahshua (Jesus) to the Earth for a divine purpose.

        In addition, the word "beginning" is sometimes not translated into the English Language properly. There have been several "beginnings" E.g Lucifer was not ALWAYS a thief & murderer,liar, etc. Yes he did become all these things, LATER, after he was created. I don't know how much later,but when he CHANGED, his name was also changed from Lucifer to Satan,which means adversary. Then was the beginning of that "new beginning." Lucifer to Satan.

         
  17. johannabernays

    April 25, 2013 at 7:02 PM

    i also don’t buy the bunk about the trinity, neither pre tribulation rapture. the were jesuit attemps to undermine any other’s grip on world power.
    these artickels i post here are to show how many so call ‘patroits’ are stupis hateful useless idiots.
    jesuits and vatican totally supported hitler and holocaust.
    vatican always call the shots.
    the pope we have now is jesuit.

    since it appears hitler euthenised free masons and hated them there as much and equillety as joos, we might well rething whom are on our hate list.

    wake up dumb alex jones worshippers1 your leader has no credubiliyt/

    http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/nazi_fascist_persecution_freemasonry.html

    Few people are aware that Freemasons suffered at the hands of the Nazis following Hitler’s rise to power in 1933. This is probably because numerically Freemasons were a much small group than any of the others which also suffered.

    Essentially, Hitler’s argument was that Freemasons and Jews had colluded in taking over Germany and had brought the country to its knees – politically, culturally and economically. History tells, if we are prepared to listen and learn, that there is nothing new under the sun. Hitler’s belief that the Jews and Freemasons were responsible for all the ills of Germany after the end of the First World War led him to believe that by eliminating them Germany’s problems would be resolved.

    A few may be aware of the persecution of Freemasons by Hitler, but very few know that they were also hunted down and executed by Franco (Spain), Stalin (USSR) and Mussolini (Italy). When one is aware that Freemasons were also executed, and their property stolen, in countries invaded and occupied by the Nazis (e.g. Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Greece, Austria, Romania, etc.) then one begins to wonder exactly what was the total death toll of Freemasons.

    It is not possible to now determine how many Freemasons were executed just because they were Freemasons, but a conservative estimate has suggested that the number of German Freemasons who died in concentration camps numbered 80,000.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM

      @ >” History tells, if we are prepared to listen and learn,….”
      How sad.Almost 6,000 years of recorded history & what have we learned? NOT ONE DAMN THING!

       
  18. Chosen one

    April 25, 2013 at 7:24 PM

    Messiah = God

    Isa. 9:6
    Rom. 9:5
    Exodus 3:14
    John 14:7,9; 18:5,6
    Col. 1:15-18

     
  19. dublinmick

    April 25, 2013 at 9:29 PM

    Lets take a look at what Jesus said. Jesus was Jesus, the father in heaven was the Christos. the earth was the mother. The war lord constantine killed the Vedic priest and wrote the bible himself. Up until that point there was a world wide Vedantic culture all the way from the Shamans of Russia to the Mayans in South America. But truth is truth, it never changes, it is only rediscovered.

    http://www.thenazareneway.com/essene_gospel_of_peace_book1.htm

    http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/6nations1.html#part1a

    http://www.hinduism.co.za/jesus.htm

    It all sprang from here.

    http://dublinsmick.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/who-are-the-nefilim-where-did-they-go-will-they-return/

     
    • Jerry S

      April 27, 2013 at 4:07 PM

      @ >It all sprang from here.

      Really? I am persuaded “it all sprang” in the Spring when the roses were beginning to bloom.
      I believe you & I have a different flavor of ice cream choice too. The again,you probably don’t like ice cream.

       
  20. rl

    April 25, 2013 at 10:38 PM

    Adask, I am not saying we shouldn’t be rational. God, is 3 persons in one nature. They are all eternal, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Son has existed eternally. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John1. And all things were made through him.John3. And the Word became flesh and dwelt amoung us. Jesus is the Word John is referring to in these verses. Jesus is the example of the perfect man and still God. He is our example, he submits to the will of the Father willingly to show that we have to die to our will and live for Gods’ purpose. He came that the lost(those who don’t know God) can be redeemed. (Payed for by his blood). He temporarily gave up “some” of his attributes as God so that he could die on a cross. For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Heb 9:22. When Jesus is on the cross he says My God My God why has thou forsaken me. God places the full penalty for our transgressions on the lamb of God. His blood is perfect unblemished, and precious enough to pay for our sins. It is free, You are saved by grace(gods riches at christs expense). It is a gift of God(a gift is free). Not of works lest any man boast. You can’t do anything good enough to earn it so no one can say I am better than you are because I did more. Eph 2:8. If he wasn’t fully God he couldn’t have paid the price for all of mankind. Jesus is God, he is personal, he knew who you were when he went to the cross. All you need do is accept his free gift and follow him. I am not eloquent sometimes but only the Holy Spirit can reveal God to you. That is his job. Now comes the parable of the sower. Which seed are you going to be? Thanks for all you do on this website. I love the thought provoking subjects.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 2:15 AM

      rl
      @ > In the beginning

      In the beginning of what? What was BEFORE this? How can anything be eternal & yet have a beginning? It cannot be both ways.If something “begins” how does it exist before it begins? We cannot grasp “eternity/infinity” You can plan to do something yourself but not start to carry out your plan until weeks or months later. BUT, your plan existed in your mind before you began to make it happen There have been many “beginnings” in the scriptures. Once upon a time,according to the scriptures,the Sun,Moon,Stars, Planets DID NOT Exist.The Angels DID NOT exist UNTIL they were created. We are finite trying to show how smart we are by explaining what Eternity & infinity means? B.S. There ain’t no way to do it as long as we are FINITE. But, we should at least KNOW there absolutely MUST be a higher, much higher intelligence than ALL the people in the world put together combining their intelligence for a cause. Even this would be like a drop of water in the oceans, considering the oceans representing the intelligence of YHWH. ALL of us TOGETHER are no more than a drop of water in the oceans.Some things are not revealed because we cannot grasp those things. You feed a baby milk. Give the baby a bite of your steak & you may very well see the baby choke to death. “Jesus” said,I have “yet” many things to say unto you, but ye cannot “bear them now. ” < quotes are my emphasis.

       
      • rl

        April 26, 2013 at 3:16 PM

        In the beginning relates to the beginning of the Creation, not In the beginning God created Jesus. All things were created through him. Jesus.

         
      • Adask

        April 26, 2013 at 5:09 PM

        Sez who? Yes, there’s text in the New Testament that alleges all things were created through the Christ. But it strikes me as odd that God made no mention of the Christ in first chapter of Genesis when the world was created. The existence of the Christ can be inferred from “Let US make man in OUR image,” but there is no express mention of God making things by means of (through) the Christ. Instead, the story of Genesis is a little ambiguous, but it primarily suggests that “God” acted unilaterally to create the universe and mankind.

         
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 5:28 AM

      rl
      April 25, 2013 at 10:38 PM
      @ > All you need do is accept his free gift and follow him.
      Would you mind being specific about what you mean by,”follow him?” Thanks.

       
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 2:27 PM

      rl
      @ >3 persons in one nature.

      This in & of itself, without more,is confusing Do you mean like in the 3 faces of Eve? This is how or what Satan wants the “thinking” “analyzer” people to believe too, i.e.,”God” is like the 3 faces of Eve. 3 in one. Absolute confusion.Say what YOU, rl, mean or understand “3 persons in one nature” IS, MEANS, etc.

       
  21. johannabernays

    April 26, 2013 at 12:07 AM

    Oh – and in the creation story, God made Eve from Adam to make it clear that she was the same kind of being, not different, not inferior, not a different kind, but of the same substance and being, fully equal, fully qualified to be his companion, as the beasts were not. By the way, […]

    YOU Are Wrong also. Elohim Breathed HIS Spirit in ADAM’S Nostrils, giving Adam Divinity. Eve was a MANUFACTURED SERVILE CREATURE. Never Equal nor Divine, Rather Subservient, inferiour, different entirely, NOT GOD BREATHED.

    The NEW TESTAMENT Speaks Truth to your NEW AGE ALICE BAILEY Tripe, thusly:
    11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

    12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

    14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 2:30 AM

      Hey JOHNNY,
      YOU say,> “YOU Are Wrong also. Elohim Breathed HIS Spirit in ADAM’S Nostrils, giving Adam Divinity. Eve was a MANUFACTURED SERVILE CREATURE. Never Equal nor Divine, Rather Subservient, inferiour, different entirely, NOT GOD BREATHED.

      i bet you have a lot of female friends & also you are not speaking very well of your own mother or even the mother of “Jesus.” Do you think it is just happen chance that after he Messiah was resurrected he appeared to a female FIRST before ANY man ever saw him. I think he has a very high regard for women,i.e. “God” fearing women that is.

      @ > And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
      You got that right, ADAM Knowingly did the wrong thing. NOT EVE. We can All BE THANKFUL TO ADAM.

       
      • johannabernays

        April 26, 2013 at 3:48 AM

        Since the BIBLE PROVES that you are a LIAR, then you ATTACK ME as a LUNATIC.You Resort to a LOGICAL FALLACY, as you are YOUR SELF a FALLACY. ad hominem argument is a form of genetic fallacy. Arguments of this kind focus not on the evidence for a view but on the character of the person advancing it; they seek to discredit positions by discrediting those who hold them. It is always important to attack arguments, rather than arguers, and this is where arguments that commit the ad hominem fallacy fall down.

         
      • Adask

        April 26, 2013 at 1:03 PM

        This issue (whether the Christ is or is not God) is ultimately based on contradictions found in the Bible. Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I believe in the Christ? Yes. Do I believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God? No.

        There are verses that make clear that God and the Christ are two different and separate beings. The Christ prayed to and talked to God. That indicates that either God and Christ are separate or the singular God/Christ talks/prays to Himself. The second explanation seems impossible. Nevertheless, some try to ignore those verses, claiming that it’s a “mystery”.

        But there are other verses in the Bible that say or imply that God and the Christ are one.

        Those two sets of verses contradict each other. That implies that one of those two sets of verses is fundamentally false. I don’t believe that we can reasonably explain away that contradiction by simply declaring it to be a “mystery”. I’m not saying it’s not a mystery, but I am saying that if God can’t lie, and if the Bible is inerrant, then that contradiction should not be present.

        Nothing’s impossible, but I am unable to understand how God and the Christ can be both two separate beings and also, one in the same.

        And given that I’m betting my soul on whichever faith I choose to embrace, I am not inclined to believe any version of the Bible just because someone else advocates that version. I am obligated by the value of my “bet” to try to figure things out as best I can.

        For example, if God and the Christ are one, who was Mary? Did the Christ inherit any of Mary’s genetics? Was the Christ “half-God” and “half-Mary” in the same sense that my own genes are half from my earthly father and half from my earthly mother? If the Christ really had a mother (not just a female incubator) and therefore has some of Mary’s genetics, doesn’t that make Christ half-mortal and half-God and thus a being clearly different from the God who is eternal? The Christ did die. That proves his mortal component. The Christ was also resurrected. That proves his Godly component. If the Christ was to any degree truly “mortal” and “human,” He cannot have been God. He must be someone other than God.

        If the Christ and God are one in the same, are we to believe that God was cuddled up inside Mary’s womb for 9 months? If so, doesn’t it follow that God had no earthly genes. Did He simply occupy Mary’s womb like a space alien in a bad horror film? Did He need an umbilical cord? If the Christ was God, why did the Christ need to be baptized? If the Christ was God, why did the Devil waste his time trying to tempt the Christ? Didn’t the Devil know God when he saw him? Didn’t the Devil have enough sense to know that he couldn’t possibly tempt God? Doesn’t the time of temptation suggest that Devil, knowing he couldn’t tempt God, nevertheless tried to tempt God’s son? Doesn’t that suggest that the Devil recognized the Christ as someone separate from and weaker than God?

        If God and the Christ are one, and the God/Christ wanted to come to earth, why would God bother with Mary? Why not just show up in his radiant glory? Why, if God and Christ were one (and therefore not at all truly “human”), did the God/Christ go through all the rigmarole of the crucifixion? The crucifixion makes no sense unless a man (at at least a half-man/half-God) voluntarily accepted all that pain and sacrificed Himself for the sake of mankind. If Christ is God, are we to believe that God–the Creator of the Universe–sacrificed Himself and actually died for the benefit of a pack of semi-civilized beings that, in relation to God, don’t rise the level of an ant hive?

        For me, the story of the crucifixion is a little like the story of Sodom in which Abraham asked if God would destroy Sodom just a handful of righteous men could be found. God agreed that if ten righteous men could be found, He would not destroy Sodom. I know of no biblical foundation for my analogy, but it occurs to me God may have already been fed “up to here” with mankind’s unrighteousness and may have been about to shut the whole thing down unless on righteous man (or half-man/half-God) could be found or created that was truly capable of great righteousness. The Christ was tested and despite being half-man, he passed the test. God relented and did not pull the plug on the entire world. At least not yet.

        I’m not that’s what happened. I’m simply saying that the crucifixion appears to me to have been a “test” to see if anyone who is at least part man is capable of behaving in a godly manner. There’s no reason I’m able to understand or imagine that God would “test” Himself to see if He were capable of “extreme” or “perfect” righteousness. If it’s true that the crucifixion was some sort of “test,” then it would seem to follow that whoever was being “tested” was someone other than God.

        But I want to close this by saying that issue is not based on one’s belief or lack of belief in the Christ and/or God. This issue is not about God or the Christ. It’s about contradictory verses in the Bible. I don’t believe that any of those verses can be simply dismissed or ignored as a “mystery”. Thus, I resort to my “analyzing”.

         
      • johannabernays

        April 26, 2013 at 4:01 AM

        Again YOU BLASPHEME GOD and INSULT the SCRIPTURES! These were COPIED and PASTED Directly from King James Bible on line! From PAUL’S BOOK to TIMOTHY. The thing is, YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS SALVATION, nor The BLOOD OF THE LAMB; You only believe in JEW HATE! Get a LIFE, because TWISTING SCRIPTURES will earn you a REAL BAD ETERNITY,
        12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

        13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

        14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

        15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

        16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

        17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

        18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

        19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

        @ > And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
        You got that right, ADAM Knowingly did the wrong thing. NOT EVE. We can All BE THANKFUL TO ADAM.
        You HERETIC, You LIE and LIE, because YOU ARE A SATANIC JEW HATER. A NAZI SCUM BAG. sorry for strong words, I Believe They Are Needed. This Person is STUFFED AS FULL OF DEMONS as a POLISH SAUSAGE, Maggots of Nazi White Supremist Crawl In His Mouth;verily his speech Blasphemes the Word.

         
      • Adask

        April 26, 2013 at 12:16 PM

        Let’s see if we can explore these issues without personal insults. Let’s see if we can find some truth–even if that truth is only “true” questions.

         
  22. johannabernays

    April 26, 2013 at 12:16 AM

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Any person stupid enough to watch TV (The Image of the Beast=Tele_Vile_sin box.) can plainly observe the Idiocy that Appeals to the Female Mind- Lady GaGa, Oprah Winfrey, The SECRET- where Meditation makes WOMEN MAGNETS to MONEY, certain RICH MEN, etc.

    Through the Beginning of the Lowering of Men to Subservant to Men; the Sonny & Cher Show” the AMERICAN POLITICAL & MORAL & INTELLIGENCE has sunk to OBSCENE FILTH.

    People who attend 501.c.[3] GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED CHURCHES- the 501.c.[3] Number is THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST!
    are receiving NEW AGE TRASH and not BLOOD BOUGHT BIBLE TEACHING.
    2 Thessolianans
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

    12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

    14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

     
  23. johannabernays

    April 26, 2013 at 12:29 AM

    Sergey Brin and Anne Wojcicki

     
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 2:33 AM

      Johnny, have you never been diagnosed as, Bi-Polar?

       
      • johannabernays

        April 26, 2013 at 3:49 AM

        ad hominem argument is a form of genetic fallacy. Arguments of this kind focus not on the evidence for a view but on the character of the person advancing it; they seek to discredit positions by discrediting those who hold them. It is always important to attack arguments, rather than arguers, and this is where arguments that commit the ad hominem fallacy fall down.

         
  24. johannabernays

    April 26, 2013 at 3:50 AM

    Appeal to Antiquity / Tradition
    Explanation

    An appeal to antiquity is the opposite of an appeal to novelty. Appeals to antiquity assume that older ideas are better, that the fact that an idea has been around for a while implies that it is true. This, of course, is not the case; old ideas can be bad ideas, and new ideas can be good ideas. We therefore can’t learn anything about the truth of an idea just by considering how old it is.
    Example

    (1) Religion dates back many thousands of years (whereas atheism is a relatively recent development).
    Therefore:
    (2) Some form of religion is true.

    This argument is an appeal to antiquity because the only evidence that it offers in favour of religion is its age. There are many old ideas, of course, that are known to be false: e.g. that the Earth is flat, or that it is the still centre of the solar system. It therefore could be the case that the premise of this argument is true (that religion is older than atheism) but that its conclusion is nevertheless false (that no religion is true). We need a lot more evidence about religion (or any other theory) than how old it is before we can be justified in accepting it as true. Appeals to antiquity are therefore fallacious.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 5:14 AM

      Johnny !!!
      You are cleverly avoiding the question, but I think I know the answer. By the way,this new picture of you is much better than the other one(.Hint > on avoiding the question, it takes one to know one). By the way,when I posted a message to you earlier, only part of it went through & the part that did, did not show up like I had it typed out. This doesn’t help, does it?

       
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 5:20 AM

      JOHN !!!
      @ > Since the BIBLE PROVES that you are a LIAR, then you ATTACK ME

      Will you PLEASE be specific as to WHO you are referring to when you say things like this? Some of us are not intelligent like you are & we need more clarity than you provide to know WHO you are referring to. Thanks.

       
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 3:26 PM

      johannabernays
      @ > April 26, 2013 at 3:50 AM
      EXCELLENT !!! I’m serious & sincere. Your message is excellent,in my opinion.Then again,you & others have to consider the source.

       
  25. Jerry S

    April 26, 2013 at 3:16 PM

    @ > This issue (whether the Christ is or is not God) is ultimately based on contradictions found in the Bible.
    Once again,It’s SOME of the “Bible translations” of the ORIGINAL Scriptures that are,in certain places, translated WRONG. Here is one example of many.
    Acts 12:4 > “And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.”

    The word EASTER is translated from the Greek word,”Pascha” & should be correctly translated, PASSOVER. Easter IS NOT Passover. Two entirely different things. YHWH allows things like this to happen I believe to see how sincere we are in REALLY wanting to KNOW what the truth is. More people LOVE EASTER, not, Passover.

    @ >I am saying that if God can’t lie, and if the Bible is inerrant, then that contradiction should not be present.

    I agree BUT,The ORIGINAL Scriptures are not inerrant. It’s some of the “translations.” Many scriptures are so clear even a child should understand them,even in the “translations”. We seem to want to disregard the “CLEAR” scriptures & come down like a duck on a june bug on the scriptures that “seem” to conflict or contradict the CLEAR scriptures. It’s the “seemingly” contradictory scripture that most of us want to rely or concentrate on & NOT the CLEAR Scriptures.Why is this?

    “Let US make man in OUR image” is VERY CLEAR to the extent at least that “God” <The Elohiym comprises MORE than a single entity. ONE family can have several beings/members,etc., consisting of Father,Mother, and children, BUT STILL, ONE "family." The Apostle Paul spoke/wrote about the WHOLE FAMILY in HEAVEN!!! VERY CLEAR. A family IS NOT a single entity.

     
  26. rl

    April 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM

    Ok, Adask Jesus is fully man, 46 chromosomes, born of a vigin not cocieved in sin but by the Holy Spirit. (Miracle). God the Father has been determined by the trinity to be Spirit and must be worshipped in Spirit and Truth. Jesus was predestined to be born of a virgin to that God(Jesus) becomes flesh to be tempted by the devil to show 1. That Jesus submits to the will of God the Father and doesn’t ack as an independent moral agent apart from Gods’ will. 2. That their is only one person born that can keep the law of moses perfectly. Why does Jesus have to pray to the Father because he (Jesus) is seeking God’s actions and not his (Jesus’). Their will is the same, to Glorify God. But Jesus is also fully man, he doesn’t perform one miracle of his own will but that his Father in Heaven is glorified. Father in the sense of temporary position because Jesus has become a little lower than the angels. He left heaven and all the glory and power and majesty to come and die as a human. Because God loves us. Yet while we were still sinners Christ died for us. Jesus asks his disciples who do men say I am? You are the messiah the Son of the living God. Son in the temporary temporal position. Lastly, if the Bible is not inerrant then we can’t trust what is truth in it and what is not truth. All contradictions are from either a lack of context, or understanding of the language or of what was going on during the first century. For example. Many historians used to think that Pontius Pilate never existed, but now his life has been confirmed. Language changes and translations cause confusion because some words don’t have an exact greek word or aramaic word. The Bible has to be studied not read. The Bible is greater than Koran or equal with any other holy book or revelation. It is God breathed God inspired. Holy men wrote down what the Holy Spirit told them to write down. God is all powerful and it would be easy for him to place the words in mens heart, to have it compiled by humans in the way he wanted, to be read by humans to bring them to the knowledge of Gods’ plan. The bible is foolishness to those who are perishing. He reveals himself to those who seek the truth, and not to those who say they know the truth.

     
    • Adask

      April 26, 2013 at 4:48 PM

      “He [God?] left heaven and all the glory and power and majesty to come and die as a human”? That makes as much sense to me as hearing that God left heaven so he could die as an ant. What is so special about mankind, in all the universe, that God, Himself, would want to die on our behalf? (Plus, the question still remains: How can God be “eternal” and still have died for three days?)

      “Jesus asks his disciples who do men say I am? You are the messiah the Son of the living God. Son in the temporary temporal position.” Does “temporary temporal position” mean that Christ was temporarily his own (God’s) son while He (the Christ) was on earth, but after he died and/or left earth to once again resume his role as God? Are you saying that the Christ was God before he came to earth; was not God while He was on earth; but resumed his role as God after he died and left earth?

      “Lastly, if the Bible is not inerrant then we can’t trust what is truth in it and what is not truth. All contradictions are from either a lack of context, or understanding of the language or of what was going on during the first century.”

      OK–if the Bible is the inerrant word of God–which “Bible” are we talking about: Catholic or Protestant? Those two versions of the Bible don’t even agree as to what comprises the Ten Commandments. Which of those “Bibles” is inerrant.

      More, within the Protest community, there are probably at least 20 different versions of the Bible that are commonly available. Given that each version is significantly different from the other 19, which one is inerrant?

      And are any of the modern “Bibles” as inerrant as the original books written in Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek?

      I have no doubt that each of the “Bibles” contain some of the inerrant words of God and the Christ. I also have no doubt that virtually all of the Bibles–especially those that have been translated–include words and text that are at least mistaken. It’s common knowledge that the King James version included the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” even though the original text reportedly read “Thou shalt not murder“. There are a number of significant differences in meaning between “kill” and “murder”. I.e., “murder” requires intent. “Killing” includes unintentional and accidental acts like manslaughter. If it’s true that “Thou shalt not kill,” does that mean that you’ll be damned if the brakes fail in our car and you accidentally hit another car and cause the driver to die?

      If it’s true that the original commandment is properly translated, “Thou shalt not murder,” then the King James version of the Bible is not inerrant–nor is any other Bible that includes the commandment “Thou shalt not kill”.

      If only because the process of translating words in one language to another is more subjective than objective, I would absolutely expect a number of mistakes to intrude into any Bible written in any language other the the originals. I’d also bet that one of Satan’s biggest objectives is to insert lies, contradictions and mistakes into the Bible. It seems inconceivable to me that every version of the Bible is inerrant. If they’re all inerrant, why don’t we all use just one Bible?

      As I wrote earlier, I’m betting my soul on whatever faith I choose to embrace. That’s a pretty big bet. Therefore I intend to “kick” every “tire” on every Bible to see if, by means of observation and “analysis,” I can choose the right faith.

      Note that I’m not saying that there’s only one “Bible” that can truly lead you or me to God. I believe that God may be finally more interested in what’s in our hearts than what’s in our minds. Still, I believe that the Good LORD would be pleased if we tried to learn to discern His truth from the lies and mistakes of this world. I don’t believe He will be the least bit impressed by my “analyses”. But I think He might be pleased by the effort I’ve made to understand. That effort is driven by (and, I think, evidence of) my “heart”. I perform the “works” of analysis not because I think my “works” will save me, but because I am inclined to see those works as acts of service to God and evidence of both my love and faith in Him.

      But, throughout, I understand that my various beliefs and “analyses” may be mistaken. I am not here to tell anyone else that they should believe as I do. I am not here to tell anyone else that I have found the “one, true faith”.

      Likewise, I am not here to automatically believer whatever any other mortal man tells me to believe.

      I have far more questions than answers. I’m unlikely to believe those who can’t or won’t answer–or even recognize–my questions.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 26, 2013 at 6:47 PM

        @ >What is so special about mankind, in all the universe, that God, Himself, would want to die on our behalf?
        Now Brother, that is a question I don’t believe ANY mortal can answer. But I do know that “God” says he so loved the “world” which means people, that he sent/gave his beloved son…….” How they,the” Let Us,” can love people as wretched as we are is beyond my understanding. But the only other choice we have is,eternal death. Eternal life is better especially when it’s joyful, thrilling, no sorrow, just happiness beyond our,at present, ability to understand. Alfred, it is this simple. Keep the commandments & you’re IN like flynn. The other seemingly unanswerable questions will be answered eventually & in a way as to be clearly understood. Your understanding of the commandments really mean is better than most people. I have read what you say the commandments mean & we understand this much the same way.

         
      • Adask

        April 26, 2013 at 7:42 PM

        OK–I get it. All I have to do is “keep the commandments”. That is simple.

        Now for the hard part (and this part is for you, Jerry): Please tell me which set of “commandments” I’m expected to keep–the Catholic commandments or the Protestant commandments?

         
      • Jerry S

        April 26, 2013 at 10:45 PM

        Adask
        April 26, 2013 at 7:42 PM
        @ > OK–I get it. All I have to do is “keep the commandments”. That is simple.

        @ >Now for the hard part (and this part is for you, Jerry): Please tell me which set of “commandments” I’m expected to keep–the Catholic commandments or the Protestant commandments?

        You are more “Catholic oriented analyzer wise” than you probably are aware of. You say you are a Protestant. Protestants are those who came out of the Catholic Church in “protest” because even they could only take so much of “False God” worship. Still the “Protestants” held on to most Catholic tradition and still do to this day. The “Bible answer” to your question has been given several times. Here it is again. Do with it what you will.

        Matthew 19:16
        Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

        17“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

        18“Which ones?” he inquired.

        Jesus replied, “You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.”

        20“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

        21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

        22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

        23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

        25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

        26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

        27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

        28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

         
      • Anthony Clifton

        April 27, 2013 at 3:59 AM

        is the issue one of Good Faith…?

        Jesus admonished to “be ye therefore perfect’….”Know the Truth”

        and provided an unmistakable PHYSICAL example of righteous indignation by making a whip and driving the BAD FAITH [Talmudic Terrorists] from the Temple….

        History and context….ipso facto LANGUAGE yields a more perfect understanding of the dynamics of Who is who….

        http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=23&v=1&t=KJV

        “my sheep hear my voice”….{sound}

        can a blind hog find an acorn..?

        once in a Baptist church a “well intentioned” preacher delivered a simple message based on Davids’ decision not to kill Saul while he slept in the cave…the punch line of the message was that the worst enemy any of us have is our own selves…we have a choice to understand the dynamics at work and to have faith in the Divine providence that guides our souls….back home.

        maybe Doug could add some particulars from personal experience…but it is TRUE that the Almighty looks upon the heart of His Children, Jesus spoke in parables concerning entry into the Kingdom…

        which is why Matthew 13 and Obadiah are necessary to comprehend who is not going to wind up in the Kingdom but will in fact be a pile of ashes…most having been LIED to and never had the opportunity to hear the unleavend truth…{man does not place his limitations on the Almighty}

        http://snippits-and-slappits.blogspot.com/2013/04/eustace-mullins-curse-of-canaan-chapter_22.html

        John Kaminski writes…”I also have cause to reflect on my own anti-Israel, Talmud/Bible suspicious orientation and I am reminded of the words of my archenemy in the 9/11 skeptics movement, another Australian named Gerard Holmgren, who, upon hearing my intent to drag [Talmudia] Israel with its Silverstein/Wolfowitz/Zakheim connections to the perfidy of that tragic day into the heated debate reminded me forcefully that America doesn’t need anyone else to blame for its horrendous, bloodthirsty past, which started with the obliteration of the continent’s natives followed by a truly diabolical string of massacres around the planet while “making the world safe for democracy” (as we continue to do now in Iraq). Holmgren’s point is well taken.

        http://www.serendipity.li/zionism/if_joe_was_right.htm

        No, America never needed any help at all. Though the Jews/Zionists/Israelis may be in ascendance now in the worldwide violence category, they have merely assumed the title from the previous champs and still record-holding White Anglo Saxon Protestants, who themselves took the title from the Roman Catholic blood machine of Dark Ages/Inquisition fame. {prodded by poopaganda from the stool sculpture deity cult compound as confirmed by Bernays}

        And on and on goes the human race, killing each other at breakneck speed to prove they don’t die. Yay God. Worship, all ye faithful, your bloodthirsty God, and observe where we have wound up.”

        http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/death.html

        seek and ye shall find…

        http://kingjbible.com/matthew/7.htm

        sometimes a simple question….

         
    • Jerry S

      April 26, 2013 at 7:15 PM

      Re:@ (The Bible)>It is God breathed God inspired.
      Only the “original writings” are God breathed God inspired. Not one NO not one of ANY translation is inspired of “God” one iota. BUT, this IS NOT saying it, the Bible is not meant to be understood. It does take a lot of effort on our part. Let’s try to understand the Commandments FIRST & FOREMOST & OBEY them. The rest will fall in place sooner or later. We put the cart before,in front of the horse too many times. We need to understand basic math before we get into trigonometry. We are trying to figure out trigonometry first.

       
  27. Yartap

    April 26, 2013 at 4:58 PM

    Alfred, I understand your position of two separate parties (God and Jesus), and you are absolutely right that they are different and separate, but to a point. Now, think of this question: Can Alfred Adask be a god? Or for that matter, can anyone be a god? The answer as found in scriptures is an Absolute – YES! But, how?

    With out going into great detail, please read all of Psalm 82, and pay close attention to verses 1 and 6. The children of God are gods.

    Next, carefully read all these chapters in John, chapters 7, 8, 9 and 10. Many of the paragraphs in these chapters deal with what is called, “Christ Adventureth in Jewry.” If you don’t want to read all these chapters, then just focus upon John chapter 10. In John 10: 34 we find Christ’s referring back to Psalm 82. John 10: 36 we find Jesus calling himself the Son of God or the Christ. John 10: 24 we find the jews asking if Jesus is the Christ. Note: John 10: 16 refers back to the scattered or lost tribes of the house of Israel as I told you in my first post.

    Maybe this will explain to you a different perspective to consider as it relates to the question of gods. Don’t be like the jews who questioned his works, which bear witness of him. But with the advent of His child who keep his word and act upon His word as God would act while praying to God to remove fear, one can become a god in His eyes.

     
  28. Jerry S

    April 26, 2013 at 6:06 PM

    @>Adask
    @>April 26, 2013 at 5:09 PM
    If “everything” was intended to be understood by the Book of Genesis “alone” there would not be any need or use of the remainder of the “Books of the Bible.” Remember, here a little & there a little? It is written this way for a purpose. The Bereans understood this. They searched the “scriptureS>” < plural. BUT, at that time the Bereans only had the "Old Testament" to search. The only thing I see different from the "Old & the New" are the animal sacrifices are no longer necessary. The animal sacrifices were a "type" pointing to the ultimate sacrifice. It is insulting to sacrifice "lambs" today when "Jesus"aka the "Lamb" of "God" was sacrificed..

     
    • Ron Gerard

      April 26, 2013 at 9:04 PM

      I think Adask has a point as there are over 2000 references to “the Father” and just a few that the Father and I are one. So a few versus thousands giving way to the worship of the Trinity, which is, mostly a Vatican invention at one of their councils. Years ago I was immersed in this study and it was clear that it was a spiritual connection and GOD is spirit. Can you point to more than two versus that claim otherwise.

      Worship of the Trinity is a mathematical equation and one minister told me years ago as he know I had doubts. It seems to me the Trinity is just that, multiple gods that require some trickster words to articulate.

      If I am god and I enter a woman’s womb and be born of her then I would be man, simple. If I die and come back to life that is old east reincarnate, the trickster, attempting the same lie as the first that you will surely never die.

      Is the Father the son?

      If we are in the image of god does that make us god as well?

      What about the Colonel Thompson Bible?

      Who are the Jews of the Bible?

       
      • homelessholocaust

        April 27, 2013 at 6:12 AM

        What about the Colonel Thompson Bible?
        Without flaming, I can tell you I have used the Thompson Chain Refrence Bible for over 25 years. I recently bought one from a second handed book store PUBLISHED in 1934. The Thompson has Extensive Links to the OLDER Strong’s COncordance, and Dr, Thompson HAS NO HIDDEN AGENDA, as Cryil Scofeld’s Bible PUSHED THE HERESY & DOCTRINE of DEVILS known as “Pre Trib Rapture.”

        If you go to “AbeBooks.com” & search for a THOMPSON CHAIN REFERANCE BIBLE-KING JAMES VERSION” you can probably find one for $10.00 like I did.

        The JEWS of the BIBLE are the JEWS of TODAY: Anyone who Lives by Torah as Contemporary Jews – Halakhah is the Modern Jewish Torah Keeping Life Style.

        Some halakhists celebrate the impact of our modern, empiricist, voluntary society on Jewish law. Others bemoan it. But all modern Jews strive to bring the essence of the past solidly into the future.

        Since JUDAISM is BOTH (Yes: Either/Or) A Ethnic Group Of People (Black Jews from Ethiopia, askhardian Jews from Eastern Euroupe- Mainly Russia, & Sephairdic Jews from NOrthern Africa, Spain & South America, ) and Jews Who were Born from Shiksa (Yiddish: שיקסע shikse, Polish: sziksa) is a Yiddish and Polish word that has moved into English usage, mostly in North American Jewish culture, as a term for a non-Jewish woman, who Marries A Jewish Man.)

        If a Child from a JEWISH FATHER and Non Jewish Mother Applies His Heart to the Study of Torah, the Keeping of Halakhah, and COnverts, He Then becomes a KOSHER JEW.

        In the Book of Acts, when the GREAT MULTITUDE ran together to see the GREAT RAINING OF THE HOLY GHOST..There were MANY PROSYLITES with them…Prosylytes are People Who SEE THE GOODNESS of GOD reflected in the Holiness of the ORTHODOX JEWS, and DESIRE TO JOIN TEMSELVES to GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE!
        Unfortunately, JEW HATERS through the Years, the Centurys, have caused the Jews to become Insular- Martin Luther, the Founder of Protestantism, was a VILE MOUTHED HATEFUL NASTY Hater of Jews.

        The NEW TESTAMENT was Written my VATICAN ASSISINATINERS to be a BOOK OF JEW HATE Propaganda. But I Still Maintain that “THE BLOOD OF JESUS WASHES AWAY SINS” but he was never considered EQUIL or GOD in FLESH. Not until AFTER 1,000 AD this strange doctrine of GOD being three persons became rampant, based upon ZOROSTRAINISM.

        Thank youall for bring intelligunt questerins into this Pot Of Potters.

         
  29. Anthony Clifton

    April 27, 2013 at 11:05 AM

    unadulterated “Jew” hooey.. . .

    There were NO so-called “Jews” in the Old Testament, and so-called “Jews” cannot be Israelites, and can only be “Jews” by adhering to the Talmud.

    http://www.israelect.com/reference/Willie-Martin/

    Sephardic so-called “Jews” are NOT Israelites.

    http://bibleatlas.org/sepharvaim.htm

    The Bible is about the Children of Israel, Not so-called “Jews”…No one on Earth HAS to believe lies…and live in a stool sculpture deity cult compound…Like Talmudia.

    http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm

    one need only seek TRUTH……in GOOD FAITH. – John 8:32

    But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

    Woe unto you, ye blind guides….

    http://snippits-and-slappits.blogspot.com/2013/04/eustace-mullins-curse-of-canaan-chapter_26.html

    it would be better for you to have a millstone attached your upper torso and be tossed into the ocean than to lead the little ones astray…

     
  30. Jerry S

    April 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM

    homelessholocaust
    @ > “The NEW TESTAMENT was Written my VATICAN ASSISINATINERS to be a BOOK OF JEW HATE Propaganda.”

    Are you saying that, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul, the writers of the New Testament, are Vatican Assassinators & writers of Jew hate propaganda? OR, are you saying that what the writers of the New Testament “originally” wrote has been perverted via translations by Jew haters? I ask this sincerely & without any ulterior motive

    I think overall your message is rational, logical & well presented. It’s just that I do not understand the last paragraph

     
  31. Jerry S

    April 27, 2013 at 4:32 PM

    Adask says,> “But it strikes me as odd that God made no mention of the Christ in first chapter of Genesis when the world was created.” (end of quote)

    Christ WAS the God that created the world as described in Genesis 1:1. About 4,000 years later, HE had a “name change” AFTER he voluntarily emptied himself of ALL the POWER,etc., he had, & became flesh.

    Satan is the purpose of verse 2, The Earth BECAME,not WAS, but BECAME “tohu-bohu.” This happened when he tried to “dethrone” his Creator. The entire universe became tohu & bohu. It should make anyone aware of the power of “spirit beings.” BEFORE Satan decided he knew & understood MORE than his creator, his name was, Lucifer. He had a name change too.Sometimes, Alfred, I think you are playing cat & mouse games. You are too deep & perceptive to not these elementary things. What are you really up to? Wow, what a stupid question for me to ask. I’m leaving it as is anyway. I’m hoping that someone,anyone of the “commentators” not just readers, will see what’s happening here. If I’m the only one,”God” help us.”

     
    • Jerry S

      April 27, 2013 at 4:48 PM

      to not KNOW these elementary things.

       
    • Adask

      April 27, 2013 at 8:24 PM

      Let’s see if I understand this correctly. Are you saying that a the time of creation, the Christ was the Creator, but didn’t use his name “Jesus” or his title “the Christ,” but instead preferred to maintain some measure of anonymity by going under the name “God”? I know there are one or more verses in the New Testament that support that view (“In the beginning, there was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.”). Apparently, Jesus the Christ’s real name (real description?) a the time of creation was the “Word”–but he didn’t want to use that one either. And then there’s “I AM,” another name that apparently means Jesus and the Christ.

      But, so far as I know, no such equivalence between God and the Christ was referenced in the Old Testament. If so, then the majority (two-thirds) of the text of the Bible (that being the Old Testament) makes no mention that God’s proper name is not Yah, Yahweh, YHWH, Jehovah or I AM, but is actually “Jesus”. Right?

      Then, 4,000 years after creation, “God” had a voluntary name change name from The Word, Yah, Yahweh, YHWH, Jehovah and I AM to become “Jesus the Christ”–right? Good to know. (Kinda reminds me of “The Artist Formerly Known as Prince”.) And where in the Bible do we find express evidence of this name change? Where does “God” expressly declare that his new name is “Jesus” and/or “The Christ”?

      Speaking of “The Christ,” Wikipedia defines that term, in part, as follows:

      Christ (/kraɪst/) (ancient Greek: Χριστός, Christós, meaning ‘anointed‘) is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), the Messiah, and is used as a title for Jesus in the New Testament.”

      If the term “Christ” means the “anointed” (some say the “chosen one”), I would ask “anointed” by WHOM? Chosen by WHOM? If “Jesus” is the “anointed” or “chosen” one, who did the anointing/choosing? The terms “anointed” and “chosen one” imply the presence of two beings: 1) the one who is anointed/chosen; and 2) the one who did the choosing anointing/choosing. I’m going to take a big intellectual leap and presume that if the “Christ” was anointed/chosen, He must’ve been 1) anointed/chosen by some being other than Himself; and 2) he was not chosen/anointed by someone of inferior rank or authority. In fact, I’m willing to be that the “Christ”–being anointed/chosen–must’ve been anointed/chosen by some being whose authority was greater than that of the Christ. Thus, it seems apparent that (unless the Christ actually “chose”/”anointed” Himself, He must’ve been chosen/anointed by a being who was other than the Christ and superior in authority to the Christ. That tells me that if “Jesus” is the “Christ,” He cannot also be “God”.

      As for you, Jerry, being the “only one” who sees what you see, it’s hard to say whether that’s grounds for God to help all the rest of us, for God to take special care to help you.

      If you’re the only one who sees the truth, Jerry, then, by definition, you must be God (or at least the Christ).

      In the end, I suspect that the essence of this debate is the need to recognize and separate those who worship God and the Christ from those who worship the Bible. I believe the Bible is a valuable tool to help us learn to recognize God. But I do not worship the Bible. I don’t believe it’s inerrant. I see too many contradictions to believe it’s inerrant. Those who believe that the Christ and God are one being can’t dismiss the multiple reports of the Christ praying or speaking to God as a “mystery”. I don’t see how anyone who claims the Bible to be sacred and inerrant can also dismiss those verses that contradict whatever fundamental beliefs the reader professes.

      Unlike some, I don’t make an “idol” out of the Bible. I know that the Apostles came to “see” and “recognize” God without a Bible. So did thousands, even millions of others come to sense or recognize God without a Bible. After all, the Bible didn’t exist in its current form until somewhere around the 4th Century.

      Q: How did followers of the Christ become “Christians” for the first 400 years after the Christ died–without a Bible?

      A: They relied on their eyes, ears, and intellect to sense the existence of God. Yes, they had various books of what became the Bible to help them “see,” but they didn’t have the “complete” Bible until somewhere in the 4th Century. Will all those (including the Apostles) be damned because they never read a complete “Bible”? I don’t think so.

      My point is that, in my opinion, too many people worship the Bible rather than the God that can be senses by means of direct perception in this life.

      As for “tohu-bohu,” I tried to look it up on the internet. I found:

      Tohu wa bohu (תֹ֙הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ) is a Biblical Hebrew phrase found in the Book of Genesis 1:2. It is usually translated “waste and void,” “formless and empty,”

      and, “dictionary.reference.com/browse/tohubohu
      Tohubohu definition, chaos; disorder; confusion.”

      I didn’t read those definitions in depth, but both seem to refer to a “waste and void” that was “formless and empty” at Genesis 1:2. Assuming Genesis offers an accurate timeline for the events in the creation, the “waster and void” that was “formless and empty” preceded all other elements of the creation. First, and presumably for some considerable amount of time, there was the darkness, void and chaos of “tohu-bohu”. Out of that dark void, God created the universe and man. There’s no clear suggestion of when God created Satan, but it seems that the world did not degrade into “tohu-bohu,” but “evolved” from it towards light, substance and order. If so, I can’t see the foundation for your claim that “The Earth BECAME,not WAS, but BECAME “tohu-bohu.” Instead it appears to me that the Earth WAS originally “tohu-bohu” and then BECAME a place of light, substance and order.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 27, 2013 at 10:44 PM

        Adask
        @ > April 27, 2013 at 8:24 PM
        @>Are you saying.. “But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2: 13,15; And,
        For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness” and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.1 Cor.3:19,20

        Natural, in this sense as used above means, under the influence of carnal wisdom.

        Receiveth not – οὐ δέχεται ou dechetai, does not “embrace” or “comprehend” them. That is, he rejects them as folly; he does not perceive their beauty, or their wisdom; he despises them. He loves other things better. A man of intemperance does not receive or love the arguments for temperance; a man of licentiousness, the arguments for chastity; a liar, the arguments for truth. So a sensual or worldly man does not receive or love the arguments for religious truth.

        @ > but didn’t use his name “Jesus” or his title “the Christ,” And then there’s “I AM,” another name that apparently means Jesus and the Christ. But, so far as I know, no such equivalence between God and the Christ was referenced in the Old Testament. < Abraham knew better,I'm positive he was not the only one. Check out Genesis 12:1-3; Genesis 17:1-22. This is confirmed by "The Messiah" in John 8:56

        Please allow me to address EVERY issue & question you have raised.Yes,EVERY ONE. But,It will take time.So may I say,to be continued? It MAY be of help to someone else. Although,at this point, considering how you think, I don't see how it will be of any value to you, maybe somebody else, hopefully.

         
      • Adask

        April 27, 2013 at 11:33 PM

        OK–I’ll give you a 30 minute stay of execution. (Heh-heh.)

        Actually, we should have these debates like chess players with a timer. Make your point–hit the clock. Now it’s the other guy’s chance to make his point and . . . hit the clock.

        Imagine the mistakes we could make if we were debating under a clock. But if we stuck at it, imagine how sharp we might become.

         
      • Jerry S

        April 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM

        Maybe you,Alfred, can & will answer this for me.WHY did only HALF of my message to you go through/post? Over half just vanished? This has also happened on two other occasions. WHY is this?

         
      • Adask

        April 27, 2013 at 11:29 PM

        I have no idea why any part of your messages might’ve been deleted. It’s not me.

        But are these losses a blessing or a curse? Did the good half of your message disappear, or only the bad half?

         
  32. Jerry S

    April 28, 2013 at 9:20 AM

    @ > OK–I’ll give you a 30 minute stay of execution.

    OK– I have been executed but I raised myself back to life so I can proceed with this “debate.” ( but didn’t use his name “Jesus” or his title “the Christ,” I replied that “he” had not become the “Son of Man, YET either.This took place,becoming the “Son of Man”,about 4,000 years after the 7 days of “creation week” in Genesis 1. Actually, to say this was “reconstruction week” is more accurate,but this would take another debate article. I also said that at this time I have discovered over 16 “titles” of the meaning of “God.” 17 considering the truth that “God” is only a title too. <This did not post either,as well as other things I said. Consider this, The 1st verse of Genesis says, in pertinent part,God created the heaven & the earth.I do not believe the earth existed BEFORE it was created.And to say "God" created ANYTHING that WAS waste & void,etc., is beyond my under-standing. Isaiah 45:18 says the earth was NOT created in vain (tohu). You may say this is a contradiction too but I don't. When I go to Jeremiah 4:23-26, this "adds" another piece to the puzzle especially when you consider "God" told Adam & Eve to "REPLENISH" (repopulate) the earth.
    To be continued. Let's see if all this goes through.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 28, 2013 at 9:28 AM

      Nope, it’s the same ol thing again. but I cut & pasted it this time & now I will try & post that & see what happens

      OK– I have been executed but I raised myself back to life so I can proceed with this “debate.” ( but didn’t use his name “Jesus” or his title “the Christ,” I replied that “he” had not become the “Son of Man, YET either.This took place,becoming the “Son of Man”,about 4,000 years after the 7 days of “creation week” in Genesis 1. Actually, to say this was “reconstruction week” is more accurate,but this would take another debate article. I also said that at this time I have discovered over 16 “titles” of the meaning of “God.” 17 considering the truth that “God” is only a title too. <This did not post either,as well as other things I said. Consider this, The 1st verse of Genesis says, in pertinent part,God created the heaven & the earth.I do not believe the earth existed BEFORE it was created.And to say "God" created ANYTHING that WAS waste & void,etc., is beyond my under-standing. Isaiah 45:18 says the earth was NOT created in vain (tohu). You may say this is a contradiction too but I don't. When I go to Jeremiah 4:23-26, this "adds" another piece to the puzzle especially when you consider "God" told Adam & Eve to "REPLENISH" (repopulate) the earth.
      To be continued. Let's see if all this goes through.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 28, 2013 at 9:34 AM

        My cut & paste did not all go through either. What is going on here?
        OK– I have been executed but I raised myself back to life so I can proceed with this “debate.” (< :

        In each paragraph,that I submitted that DID post,there were certain sentences completely deleted,i.e,that did not post.This is beyond my understanding.

         
  33. John

    April 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM

    I do not believe in God at all. Not anymore. Former evangelical minister. Spent nearly 20 years reading, researching the origins of the bible. Came away with the knowledge that “it could not be true” and therefore, everything everyone claims to know about God, Christ cannot be true either. Christianity is a fabrication from ancient history. Read through the 30,000 known errors, omissions, contradictions found in the bible (KJV). Some I could resolve easily, others, no. Definitely not a “holy book” or one written by God through the hands of men. Clearly a hodgepodge of story-telling, fanciful embellishment and manufactured events, definitely not a true religion.

    Gave up my ministry and essentially “moved on” as they say. Not a Christian anymore and never will be again. It was important to me to embrace the truth, but it led me where I did not expect to go.

    So all this discussion about who Christ was is rather irrelevant to me. He was certainly not the Son of God, no more then I am or you are. God definitely does not exist and never did.

     
    • Adask

      April 28, 2013 at 8:12 PM

      It’s probably harder to prove that God does not exist than it is to prove he does exist.

       
    • Jerry S

      April 30, 2013 at 1:09 AM

      Hi John,
      @ > Came away with the knowledge that “it could not be true” and therefore, everything everyone claims to know about God, Christ cannot be true either.

      After “almost” chucking it too, I “came away” with the knowledge that there must be a higher intelligence than man.But I must say, like you do,that everything everyone claims to know or say, or believe about God,or Christ cannot be true either.

       
  34. Jerry S

    April 28, 2013 at 5:53 PM

    @ >But you also can’t ignore or easily refute the verses in Gospels that tell us that Christ was praying to God in the Garden and talking to God just before He died on the cross.

    AMEN Brother !! Let’s (<let us) see how much of this reply goes through. He,Christ was praying to "God" his Father Eli. We have "God" the Father,AND "God" the Son. We cannot ignore the remainder of ANY of the words IN that prayer either,e.g., that THEY (<plural) may be ONE (AS >AS >AS WE WE WE WE ARE ONE.

    Is it the AS WE are ONE that is confusing? ONE as in purpose, ONE as in harmony, ONE as in agreement,ONE as in love for others,ONE as in UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING ALIKE, which IS an absurdity for finite minds to believe or do,or be. To be more precise, TO BECOME ONE AS WE ARE ONE is a better translation.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 28, 2013 at 5:57 PM

      HEY !!! ALL OF THAT COMMENT THROUGH !!! ALL OF IT. But, it will probably be regarded as a bad way to explain something or just plain bad overall, in every way, that’s probably the reason it went through with no problem.

       
  35. Jerry S

    April 28, 2013 at 11:54 PM

    Adask
    April 28, 2013 at 8:15 PM
    If you are referring to me as a “dead horse,” I will admit to being somewhat elderly, but I deny that I have become a “dead horse”. Yet.

    The “deadest horses” I have ever come across in my life are generally,teenagers. However, I do see how you could think I was referring to you.I apologize. The dead horse really referred to posting comments TO YOU that only “partly posted.” If you,Alfred,experienced the same problem, you would feel the same way. You could & would explain it better than I did or can. The message to Chris,Tony,& Yartap did NOT ALL go through either. I don’t mean a word or two, I mean 3 complete sentences. I am the most stubborn of all people on your Blog.I keep doing it,trying to post comments cause I’m meannurn hell & IGNURNT.BiPolar & Paraniod. Helps out variety wise

     
    • Adask

      April 29, 2013 at 12:48 AM

      I understood that you were not referring to me. My response was intended to be humorous. We senior citizens have to find our little fun however we can.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 29, 2013 at 4:32 PM

        To: Big Al
        @ This issue (whether the Christ is or is not God) is ultimately based on contradictions found in the Bible.

        HERE WE GO ! But, it will be a waste if only part of this comment goes through.I too,once “KNEW” there were contradictions & became so disgusted with it, I threw the Book, with much vigor, across the room & then went over & kicked the damnable thing. Alfred,please do me a favor & refer me to one or two contradictions you are aware of. If I “see” it / they “are” contradictions, I’m through with it.If someone lies to us,how can we depend on him/her for anything honest. Now, to digress.The Apostle Paul understood, just as you do,Alfred,this “claim” about a man claiming to be “God” & people actually having “worship services” FOR a “MAN.” I’m sure you know Alfred, what Paul tried to do about that, & he was being successful UNTIL,the Damascus Road incident. At that time Paul’s name was Saul. Another “name change” again. The Bible is loaded with them. You are aware Alfred that the “Jews” picked up stones to stone “him”,(Jesus) WHY? You know the answer to that. But,please tell me about any contradiction in the Bible & if there is one I can no longer depend on ANYTHING in it to be truthful.I have more than enough partly truth & partly fiction things to deal with

        P.S. Check out psalm 110:1, with Hebrews 1:13 & Mark 12:36 This seems to me kinda where you are at this time on this issue Brother Alfred,i.e., not understanding what is said & meant the way some of us,at least understand it. I hope all of this comment goes through.

         
      • Jerry S

        April 29, 2013 at 6:35 PM

        Look YOUNG MAN !! YOU ARE STILL WET BEHIND THE EARS,spiritually speaking,e.g.,for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the …” Isaiah 65:20.

        Will it make you feel better if I told you I am several years your senior? You are not senile,NO, not a tall !! You are sharppernur a razor too. I showed a young lady your picture recently, the one on this blog, where you give the seminar, you have the orange windbreaker on. ANYWAY, she said, oh my what a hulk. Alfred,I don’t know if a man is handsome or not, honest, but I asked her,Is he what you would call a handsome man? She said, VEEEERY handsome, & he can put his shoes…….. can’t say the remainder of what she said. I said, well I wish I was him. She said, well you’re not so forget it. If all this post does not go through I am in trouble. The last two did go through. well, let’s see.

         
      • Adask

        April 29, 2013 at 7:49 PM

        I don’t know if your entire post came through or not. But the best parts (compliments and flattery for me) did come through, so that’s good. No, that’s even great.

        (Incidentally, you might want to ask your “young lady” if she’s seen an optometrist lately.)

         
  36. Yartap

    April 29, 2013 at 5:47 PM

    In the Name of God.

    Alfred, if you were to work for me as my employee and I assigned you a task at a location. Upon your arrival at the location, you can declare to the customer that you are there in the name of Yartap (representing me) to perform the task for the customer with FULL AUTHORITY by me, as if I was there. As long as, you do the work to my set standards and requirements. Plus, accepting without question my ways of performing the task.

    You may come to a point with the task that you are not sure, so you refer to the manual (bible) that I have given you. If that is still unclear, then you may call upon me (prayer) for reassurance.

    Upon completion of the task by my will, the customer will remember what you did to save them from further expenses, but you remind them, that if I had not armed you with the tools, advise and mission, then you could not have performed the task. The customer will not only look upon me as the task master (god), but they will look upon you as the task master (god), also. Because you represented me to cure their problem.

    The sins that the house of Israel (10 northern tribes) had committed angered God so much that He divorced the house of Israel. God remembering His contract with Abraham, sent Jesus in His Holy Name (God) to represent Him as God for the task (purpose) of redeeming (bringing back/buying back) the house of Israel.

    To do this, Jesus as God must die upon a cross which released the wife (house of Israel) to be married to another or again to God through Jesus who was raised from the grave. If Jesus had just died and not risen, then God could not have redeemed the house of Israel, because God is different from Jesus. And it has to be Jesus who redeems, because if another claimed the house of Israel, then the One and Only God’s representative of Him would not be given credit for the redemption, meaning: God would not have redeemed.

    Yes, in the Holy Name of God and using His Words and His Ways and His Will we can represent Him and become a god, through Him.

     
    • Yartap

      April 29, 2013 at 5:59 PM

      Alfred, Just one more thing you must remember:

      The House of Judea (Jews / 3 southern tribes) was not divorced by God. So, there is no need or use for a Redeemer for them. Jesus’s task was to bring the two folds back into one fold under God.

       
      • Anon4fun

        April 29, 2013 at 7:35 PM

        Yartap: “The House of Judea (Jews / 3 southern tribes) was not divorced by God.”

        Scripture says otherwise. In this context, divorce means the end of a covenantal relationship with God.

        Jeremiah prophesied it would happen to Judah also:

        Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. 10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.

        Since the covenants of both Israel and Judah would end in divorce, a new covenant was necessary for both:

        Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.

        The author of Hebrews gives us the timing of God’s divorce from Judah, namely in the near future as of the time that book was written in the 60s AD:

        Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

         
      • Adask

        April 29, 2013 at 8:46 PM

        The cornerstone of my limited understanding is not whether any of the Houses of Israel were, or were not, divorced by God. I always stand to be corrected, but my understanding of man’s need for redemption traces back to the “original sin” committed by Adam and Eve. As I understand it, that’s the sin for which we, as a people, must be redeemed. If my understanding is correct, we needed a “perfect sacrifice” to redeem all of us–at least potentially–with God.

        As I see it, the sin of Adam & Eve created a debt or obligation to God that would never be paid by mankind alone. God required a perfect sacrifice and that exempted all of us imperfect mortals from satisfying that sacrifice. Therefore, God conceived a son who was “part man” (through Mary) and part God (through God). Then, God allowed His son to be tempted and tested and proven to be “perfect”. Having proven Himself to be perfect, the Christ became suitable as a “perfect sacrifice” and was subsequently crucified, etc., and the debt previously owed by our species to God was thereby canceled.

        If that understanding is roughly correct, then it seems obvious and undeniable to me that the Christ must be a completely different being from God. If the Christ and God are one, how could the Christ’s death constitute a “sacrifice” to God? If the Christ and God are one, then the crucifixion was the equivalent of God taking the money out of His right pocket and moving it into His left pocket and calling it a sacrifice. If the Christ and God are one, then God personally paid the debt owed by man to God. If God wants to just write of the debt owed to Him by mankind, why would God go through all the fuss and muss of allowing Himself to be crucified? Why not just write of the debt and be done with it.

        I’m told at John 3:16 that “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” That’s the King James version. I know that some versions of the Bible do not include the word “begotten”. But, assuming the KJV is correct in this matter, the word “begotten” implies that God was the Father who was there before he “begot” the Christ. I.e., insofar as the Christ was “begot” (in part) by means of His mother Mary, then it would seem to follow that the Christ might not exist before Mary. This is particularly true if the Christ was partially of Mary and was not a purely spiritual being (like God) but instead a being of flesh and blood like mankind.

        If the Christ was pure spirit (like God?) then he was not truly part flesh and blood. If so, the body of the child that Mary bore was not truly the Christ, but merely a flesh and blood vessel that the Christ “possessed” while He was here on earth. This implies that the spirit-being Christ captured the body of some poor unsuspecting child, deprived that child of most of whatever hopes or freedoms the child might’ve had in this life, and then allowed that child to be scourged and finally crucified and die in agony. If that’s true, then the Christ is sadistic or at least indifferent to mankind’s suffering and the sacrifice made by the crucifixion was not perfect since the flesh-and-blood “child” (gown to be a young man) was no more “perfect” than you or me, and almost certainly did not voluntarily choose to be 1) possessed; 2) tormented and tempted; and 3) murdered on the cross.

        If the Christ is a being who is that cruel and indifferent to mankind’s suffering, I’m not sure that I want his redemption.

        The only way the Christ’s sacrifice makes sense to me is if the Christ is both flesh-and-blood (through Mary) and spirit (through God). By means of his flesh-and-blood component, He became eligible to pay mankind’s debt. By means of his spiritual component he became a “perfect” sacrifice.

        I read John 3:16 to imply that the debt incurred by the original sin resulted in mankind being deprived of eternal life. I read that verse to further imply that by virtue of the Christ’s “perfect sacrifice” (he allowed Himself to be sacrificed on behalf of mankind), mankind was offered a “new deal” whereby those who believed in the Christ and His sacrifice would raised from the status of those indebted by original sin to God to become “non-debtors”–heirs and sons eligible for eternal life.

        For me, the crux of John 3:16 is that the Christ must be a distinct being from God because the Christ is the one making the “perfect sacrifice” and God is the one receiving that “perfect sacrifice”. There must be two beings: one to whom the debt is owed (the creditor) and another from whom the debt is paid (the debtor or, in this case, the surety paying on behalf of the debtor).

        If God and the Christ are one, then John 3:16 should read, “For God so loved the world, that he gave Himself, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” It’s one thing to write off the debt. The Old Testament talks about Jubilees when all debts are forgiven. It appears that God could have simply forgiven whatever debt was incurred by the original sin. If so, why would God go through all the drama of subjecting Himself to the humiliation of a trial, scourging and crucifixion instead of simply declaring a spiritual “Jubilee” which would forgive all of mankind’s sins?

        If it was really God that was crucified, then it appears that “God so loved the world, that he gave Himself, that whosoever believeth in God should not perish but have everlasting life.” If God is allowing Himself to be killed for your sake and mine, then God is appears to be our servant rather than we be God’s servants. That’s contrary to fundamental principles that seem apparent in the Bible: The Master does not sacrifice Himself for the servant. The servant sacrifices himself for the Master. If so, it seems conceivable the the Christ (being part man) could choose to sacrifice himself for mankind. But it seems inconceivable that God the Master would sacrifice Himself for mankind.

        The only way the crucifixion makes sense to me is if the Christ is a being other than God. If that’s not so, what sacrifice was truly made to God by mankind, 2,000 years ago, to entitle you and me to salvation?

         
      • Yartap

        April 29, 2013 at 9:00 PM

        Anon4fun,

        I have not found scriptures saying that God divorced the house of Judah. I have only found scriptures saying that Judah’s punishment was captivity by Babylon. From the scriptures that you quote, I can see how one can “assume” that God divorced the house of Judah. But if you continue reading, you see that God is trying to get Jeremiah to plead with Judah to return to God, no divorce. Many places in the Holy Scriptures state that the house of Israel was divorced by God, but I have not found an affirmative that God divorced the house of Judah. Please share the scripture(s), if you know of any. Thanks!

         
      • Jerry S

        April 29, 2013 at 9:59 PM

        @You have slapped the face of God, and said that His sacrifice (Jesus) for you has no worth.(AND
        @ Alfred, Just one more thing you must remember:

        And Yartap just one more thing you must remember.Look at what Solomon did in the end of his life It could not be better described as in your statement. & IF you think the blood of Christ covers this, I say NO WAY. The sacrifice of the Messiah does not give me a license to commit every sin there is & say I can do it because The Messiah paid the penalty. If you think so, then I say,You have slapped the face of God, and said that His sacrifice (Jesus) for you has paid the penalty for every sin you commit. What does REPENT mean then? What does STAND FIRM mean then? What does this mean then > He that overcomes AND endures UNTIL the END?? Apparently, by what you say,I don’t have to overcome anything,The sacrifice of Christ gives me permission to sin ??? B.S. & on top of that HOGWASH.

         
      • Yartap

        April 30, 2013 at 12:28 AM

        Jerry, I’m sorry for your misunderstanding of my writing. I concur with you: one cannot continue in sin after the knowledge of Christ, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 10:26).

        I was only talking about how many God fearing good-hearted people feel that they do not deserve God’s gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. It was only a warning to such type Christians that they may become there own accuser before God. The duty of man is clear (Eccl. 12:13-14, Deut. 10:12-13.

        Sorry for the misunderstanding, Jerry.

         
      • Jerry S

        April 30, 2013 at 1:40 AM

        @ > I was only talking about how many God fearing good-hearted people feel that they do not deserve God’s gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.

        Yes we do have a misunderstanding on some of our exchanges but not on all of them. However, you will NEVER hear me say, I deserve God’s gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. If anybody deserves God’s gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, I do. You may ask,why do you say you deserve God’s gift of salvation through Jesus Christ? Because I AM IMPORTANT, THAT”S WHY. I AM SPECIAL. I DESERVE EVERY GOOD GIFT FROM GOD. FACT IS,HE OUGHT TO THANK ME FOR ALLOWING HIM TO GIVE ME GIFTS & THANK ME FOR ACCEPTING THEM. WHY? I DESERVE IT, THAT”S WHY. Get the picture Yartap? You had better be glad Yartap that NONE of us get what we really deserve. Let me tell you what I believe a true Christian is. A true Christian is LIKE CHRIST in every way,DEED WISE. I am not like that IN EVERY WAY. I consider myself a LIAR if I say I am a christian. This is not saying that I do not want to be. I’m working on it. AND if I die still working on it, but not quite making it, THEN I think “God” will love me for trying & dying trying, ^ THERE is where the Blood of the Lamb comes to my rescue. BUT do I deserve this? NO WAY !!!

         
    • Jerry S

      April 29, 2013 at 6:15 PM

      Yartap,
      @ Yes, in the Holy Name of God and using His Words and His Ways and His Will we can represent Him and become a god, through Him.

      The Apostle Paul agrees. AND, in addition,he said “we shall see him as he IS AND we will be LIKE him.” Of course, the WE are only those who “overcome” (which would take another essay to explain). I do KNOW, at this point, I am not one of the WE,but the fat lady hasn’t started singing either. I KNOW I’m not “IN” YET.I hope when the END comes, I will be in. On the other hand, we can hope in one hand & do-do in the other & see which one gets full first. I still would rather have a hand full of hope. Also,part of the misunderstanding about “God” is what is said in Psalm 110:1

       
      • Yartap

        April 29, 2013 at 8:21 PM

        Jerry,

        Thanks for your response.

        Jerry, if you believe that you are not His, then you are not His. If you claim that you are not worthy, then you stand as your own accuser before the Lord. Remember His gift (redemption) to you, me and others. His grace has washed us clean of sin. He has reclaimed us as His own people, if we accept Him by our free will.

        If He should ask you, “Where is thy accuser?” And you respond, “I am not worthy of such a gift.” You have slapped the face of God, and said that His sacrifice (Jesus) for you has no worth. If you are of the house of Jadah, you must accept and believe His grace and sacrifice for the house of Israel to be joined back into “one fold.” He loves you, and says that you are worth His grace. Join unto Him!

        I will call upon God. I will accept His beautiful gift of grace. I will call Him Lord and Master. I will listen to Him as my God and no other. I will accept His will and His doctrine as my will and my doctrine. I will accept my place at His right hand side. I will become a sovereign King and god alongside Him. Amen!

         
    • Adask

      April 29, 2013 at 8:54 PM

      Here’s a, perhaps the, fundamental difference between our arguments: You appear to see the Christ’s crucifixion and sacrifice as being made to wipe out the past several centuries of misbehavior and sin committed by the House(s) of Israel; I’m inclined to believe that the Christ’s sacrifice was made to wipe out all of mankind’s misbehavior and sins dating all the way back to the “original sin” by Adam & Eve. Depending on whichever of those two premises we argue from, we might come up with entirely different conclusions.

      Did the Christ come to save only the House of Israel? Or did He come to save the world?

       
      • Jerry S

        April 29, 2013 at 9:41 PM

        @ > Did the Christ come to save only the House of Israel? Or did He come to save the world?
        Per my understanding of the meanings of all the scriptures I can find about this question,he came to redeem everyone in the world,Red,Yellow,Black,& White,Purple,Pink & polka-dotted who REPENTS, STANDS FIRM until the END, does not backslide,quit,fall away,etc. I have seen where the overall plan includes even those who have lived & died without ever hearing of “Jesus Christ.” The 1,000 year reign takes care of this but there are those who disagree with this too.

         
      • Yartap

        April 29, 2013 at 9:57 PM

        Alfred, try again. The “original sin” doctrine is an Augustine Christian Doctrine and I believe it to be a false doctrine given by and within the Roman Catholic Church. It assumes that man has a sinful nature to explain all the bad in the world. But, where is it in scripture. It’s not in scripture, it is a manmade doctrine.

        So your telling me that Jesus came because I am punished by Adam and Eve’s sinful nature. Does that sound reasonable? I think not. Read Ezekiel 18, known as the equity of God. Even in Ezekiel’s time they taught this false doctrine. “The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children’s teeth are on edge?” Ezekiel 18:2. Read what God has to say about one being punished for his father’s sins. Remember: God punished Adam and Eve by removing them from the garden and they were told to grab hold of the “tree of life.”

        Jesus said that he has come to seek and save that which was lost; and he was sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matt. 15:21-27. And to bring the two folds (house of Judah and the house of Israel) back into one fold. It was not for the so-called original sin.

        The new covenant was made only with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31: 27-34), not all of mankind.

         
      • Adask

        April 30, 2013 at 12:42 AM

        Original sin may be an unreasonable premise, but do you find your apparent premise (that the Christ was sent only to deal with the previous 400 years of Jewish/Israelite “rowdyness”) to be more reasonable?

        More, what evidence do you have have that you are descended from Israel? If the Christ was only sent to save the children of Israel, how do you really know that you fit into that class? It seems likely that most of the earth’s inhabitants are not directly descended from the house of Israel. If so, only a minority of people might be eligible for salvation through the Christ.

        On the other hand, if the Christ was sent to deal with and original sin that afflicted all of the descendants of Adam, we’d all be eligible for the Christ’s salvation.

        Are you suggesting that, if the Christ came only to deal with whatever sins were associated with the Houses of Israel during the 400 years before the Christ’s birth, then only those of the House(s) of Israel are even eligible to be saved? Do you therefore believe that all others (with no blood ties to Israel) are necessarily doomed, damned and deemed “expendable” since they won’t even have a chance as salvation? If so, how do we distinguish between those of the House(s) of Israel who might be saved and those others who don’t have a chance?

         
      • Yartap

        April 29, 2013 at 11:00 PM

        “When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the Lord’s portion is his people: Jacob (Israel) is the lot of his inheritance.” Deuteronomy 32: 8-9. It is the children of Israel who are to lead others to God. It was the Lord that gave His chosen people the power to get wealth, not His people’s power, (Deut. 8:18). Now the chosen have an advantage over other people. He also gave them the power of knowledge, another advantage, but only as long as His people did their duty (Ecclesiastes 11:13-14). So, as leaders of the world, the people of the world will be accepted. Read Isaiah 56 and continue to the end.

         
      • Anthony Clifton

        May 3, 2013 at 6:41 AM

        curiously the Scriptures are a History of one RACIAL group….the Children of Israel were not descended from Mongoloids nor Negroids….which isn’t to say that the Non-Children of Israel can’t receive blessings and be “saved” {from what}….REV. 7 ….it’s just that according to the Deity [God] YHWH the “deal” was made with Adam and Abraham….and that just is the issue of the Facts of the case….despite the FOGBANKS {misunderstandings} and LYING PEN OF THE SCRIBES…and the LEAVEN of The Pharisees…and the gullible braindead goyim who will buy a lie first rather than Know the Truth…..’cause the FEAR induced by the lying murderers who own the Lie factory

        http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/2013/05/winking-in-wrong-direction.html

         
      • Anthony Clifton

        May 14, 2013 at 4:36 AM

        Israel is a people…a company of nations…{Gen 49 & Deut. 32} …the Children of Israel divided into two Kingdoms {houses} but at no time did the children of Israel turn into so-called “Jews”…
        in the Old Testament…

        http://www.israelect.com/reference/Willie-Martin/

        Jews are manufactured by adherence to the Talmud and hating Jesus…and no so-called “Jews” as the word today is used appeared until the Khazar “Proselytes” in the 8th century AD.

         
  37. rl

    April 29, 2013 at 7:59 PM

    Adask, an ant doesn’t have an eternal soul. You do. 1. All three persons(1God) trinity are involved in the creation of the Universe, time space continum. The Spirit of God hovers over the face of the deep. God says let there be light. And I believe that it was pre-incarnate Jesus who walked in the garden with Adam and Eve. All Three are involved in every aspect of Gods revelation to man at the same time. God speaks from heaven, this is my son in whom I am well pleased, the Holy Spirit lands on Jesus and he begins his ministry at the same time. If I could explain the whole nature of the creator of the Universe I would be God. I am not, so a poor finite human must do the best he can. He became flesh, his body that his spirit was in died, but just like you and me as soon as we close our eyes in death we are freed from our earthly vessel and Jesus goes to God the Father in heaven. He is resurrected on the third day. In a glorified body like we will have one day. The disciples touched his scars. He ascended to heaven. He came the first time as a servant as an example to us. He is coming again as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes in him shall have eternal life. Jesus was fully man and fully God. The word for son is to help us understand that Jesus gave up his fully equal nature as God to position his will under that of God the Father. It is three persons one Godhead. The example I have been given is like the three states of water solid, liquid and gas, but all are water. He gave up his right to rule over his creation to become a servant to be an example of what we are to do. Submit to him and be a servant and spread the good news that God loves you and paid the penalty for us all. Jesus has shown himself other times in the old testament, before his birth. Gen16:7-13. 2. Which translation? The one closest to the original language. I will only read the King James Version but that is me. I use it in conjunction with Bethany commentary. The key is you can intellectualize and reason and test, but only by reading the scripture, the closest translation to the original, will you know the will of God in your life. It cannot be revealed by searching books that are not God inspired. Jesus said I stand at the door and knock, if anyone opens the door he will enter. Believe that you and I have a sin issue, that Jesus paid the price, and he has the power to resurrect you unto eternal life and you will be saved. It is that simple. No bible translation can mess that up!

     
  38. Jerry S

    April 29, 2013 at 10:30 PM

    Alfred,IF you ever have the time,define the word,God, as you understand it. Also,who did the “whole family” in heaven,that the Apostle Paul spoke of, mean, to the best of your belief, understanding,etc.Family is a “key” word,to me, e.g., Father,Son,

    @ As I see it, the sin of Adam & Eve created a debt or obligation to God that would never be paid by mankind alone. God required a perfect sacrifice and that exempted all of us imperfect mortals from satisfying that sacrifice. Therefore, God conceived a son who was “part man” (through Mary) and part God (through God). Then, God allowed His son to be tempted and tested and proven to be “perfect”. Having proven Himself to be perfect, the Christ became suitable as a “perfect sacrifice” and was subsequently crucified, etc., and the debt previously owed by our species to God was thereby canceled.

    You & I are together on the above paragraph except I believe Mary conceived “seed” somehow planted(<?) by the Supreme being aka the Father. I think some call it the "immaculate conception." BUT, I also believe this "seed" existed as a powerful spirit being & allowed himself to become this "seed" through the power of the OTHER Elohiym. This is not hard to grasp giving the benefit of the doubt to the Elohiym that they are capable of doing this. But, don't ask me how. I see the earth. I KNOW it is here. But,I cannot begin to explain the necessary steps required for it to be here. I think if I was "God" I could explain it.

     
    • Adask

      April 30, 2013 at 12:27 AM

      I only use the word “God” as a title and/or as I understand most people to use the term. I do not regard “God” as “God’s” proper name. I have an opinion on what at least one of the proper name’s for “God” may be (our Father YHWH ha Elohiym) and I have a pronunciation for that name that I’ve never heard from anyone else. I searched for the true name for “God” for about 7 years and finally stumbled onto a theory as to why and how the true name of “God” appears to have been lost. I came to a conclusion about what the true name might be. I prayed in that name for about six weeks and the only reaction I had was absolute silence. Normally, when I pray, I can kinda feel whether God is listening or not. It was like praying into a dark room where you can’t see anyone, but you can hear them sigh or faintly rustle their clothing. I couldn’t see the being I was praying to, but I still knew He was there. But when I used what I thought might be His proper name, I “heard” only absolute silence. It was as if God was holding his breath and wouldn’t move a muscle. But, even though I had no “feedback” to assure me that God was listening, I continued to pray into that absolute silence.

      And then, after about six weeks, I prayed one night and as soon as I said what I thought might be God’s proper name, I was suddenly filled with an incredible, unprecedented euphoria. Every time I said the “proper name,” I grinned, I laughed, I had a sense of well-being that I’d never before experienced. This was better than my grandmother’s love.

      And it persisted. Every night I prayed and said that name, I was filled again and again with this incredible euphoria. It was all so strange that I can only attribute it to the Good LORD. I could be wrong, but I believe that He gives me that euphoria as a confirmation that I’m at least close to knowing His true name, and perhaps as a reward for having said that Name.

      After about 2 months, the euphoria started to wind down. I still had the euphoria, but it was no longer so strong. No longer overwhelming, but still delightful.

      After another few more months, the euphoria is no longer “there” every time I say the “Name”. But I still feel the euphoria about 80% to 90% of the time I say the “Name”. When I say that “Name” but I don’t feel the euphoria, I wonder if I’m being rejected and what I’ve done wrong.

      But it’s only another day, or even just a couple of hours, until I say the Name and I again feel the euphoria and at least believe that I’m still OK with “God”.

      I am not saying that I have, in fact, found God’s Name. But I have no history of feeling any similar euphoria. Ever. Nothing else has ever made me feel even 10% as well as I feel when I say that Name and feel the euphoria.

      And I’ve never before been delusional in the sense of creating false feelings in my own psyche. I can’t believe that the euphoria I feel is emanating from me. The euphoria is to me, but not from me. That means it’s from some other source. I think that source is “God”.

      But I know I could be wrong. Maybe the Name I’ve found is just one name in a series and there are more and “higher” Names to be found. Maybe I’m being deceived. So I keep my eyes and ears open and I don’t tell anyone, including me, that I’ve found THE Name.

      I don’t tell anyone that they should believe me or emulate me. I’m only telling what I’ve seen and felt persistently for about 3 years.

       
      • Jerry S

        April 30, 2013 at 1:49 AM

        “The fathers have eaten sour grapes
        NO NO NO,they were crab apples ( :

         
  39. Anon4fun

    April 29, 2013 at 10:58 PM

    Yartap:

    Given that what the Bible means by “God’s divorce” is his breaking of covenantal relations, the above citations from Jeremiah and Hebrews are examples of it in relation to Judah.

    The Bible talks about the divorce between God and Judah in the future tense. Don’t expect to find scripture referring to such an event as an accomplished fact. Even so late a work as the book of Hebrews, written circa 64 AD, refers to it as an event of the (near) future. Here it is again:

    Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    As of circa 64 AD, a certain “old covenant” was about to cease. The only thing that could qualify as an “old covenant” at that time was the covenant between God and Judah.

     
    • Yartap

      April 30, 2013 at 12:07 AM

      Anon4fun,

      I’m sorry. I have tried my best to see it from your point of view, but I cannot understand it with my heart and knowledge. For me – I must have scripture which says that God divorced the house of Judah. It is Jesus’s claim that he has come to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel in Matthew 15 which stops me from seeing your point.

       
      • Adask

        April 30, 2013 at 12:46 AM

        It’s my understanding that the Christ may have been sent to redeem the lost sheep of Israel, but–because those lost sheep rejected Him–He made his redemption available to all–even those who were not descended from Israel.

         
      • Anon4fun

        April 30, 2013 at 1:55 AM

        Yartap:

        > For me – I must have scripture which says that God divorced the house of Judah.

        Why would you require such a statement of the scriptures when the event in question happened AFTER they were written? I showed you where the author of Hebrews talks about the end of the old covenant – or God’s divorce from Judah – occurring in the near-future as of about 64 AD.

        > It is Jesus’s claim that he has come to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel in Matthew 15 which stops me from seeing your point.

        Jesus did not say he came to “save” only the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus said he was “sent” only to the lost sheep of Israel. Big difference, and the latter does not imply the former.

        Jesus was sent to minister to a certain group of people: they to whom all previous prophets had been sent. This he did. Later, after his resurrection, he instructed his disciples to universalize the message.

        Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

        Luke 24:45-47 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

         
      • Adask

        April 30, 2013 at 2:59 AM

        “Jesus did not say he came to “save” only the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus said he was “sent” only to the lost sheep of Israel. Big difference, and the latter does not imply the former.”

        Good point.

        Incidentally, “sent” by whom?

         
      • Anon4fun

        April 30, 2013 at 10:06 AM

        His Father sent him. As Jerry points out through irony, Jesus did not send himself.

        John 6:38-40 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

        He was sent from heaven to do the sender’s will, not his own. This means Jesus and whoever sent him are separate beings.

         
      • Yartap

        April 30, 2013 at 4:57 PM

        Alfred said, “Original sin may be an unreasonable premise, but do you find your apparent premise (that the Christ was sent only to deal with the previous 400 years of Jewish/Israelite “rowdyness”) to be more reasonable?” Answer: Yes! Read my previous posts.

        Alfred asked, “More, what evidence do you have that you are descended from Israel? If the Christ was only sent to save the children of Israel, how do you really know that you fit into that class?” Answer: I have no evidence of being a descended, but Jesus said that his sheep hear his voice and know him. This I can confirm this as true for me.

        Alfred said, “It seems likely that most of the earth’s inhabitants are not directly descended from the house of Israel. If so, only a minority of people might be eligible for salvation through the Christ.” Remark: Remember, the house of Israel was scattered to all nations and the mass majority of the house of Judah was also scattered. Only a small percentage of the house of Judah returned to Jerusalem from captivity.

        Alfred said, “On the other hand, if the Christ was sent to deal with and original sin that afflicted all of the descendants of Adam, we’d all be eligible for the Christ’s salvation.” Remark: All the world did not need saving. Original Sin is a false doctrine, read Ezel. 18, the equity of God.

        Alfred said, “Are you suggesting that, if the Christ came only to deal with whatever sins were associated with the Houses of Israel during the 400 years before the Christ’s birth, then only those of the House(s) of Israel are even eligible to be saved?” Answer: There is only one house of Israel, Not House(s). And yes he only was sent unto the house of Israel. Jesus said, “ I am NOT sent BUT ONLY UNTO the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matt. 15:24. He was not sent unto Adam and Eve, the world or the house of Judah. He was ONLY sent unto the house of Israel. What part of BUT “ONLY” UNTO do you and Anon4fun not understand? Further, in his parable at Luke 19:10 we read, “For the Son of man is come to seek and save that which was lost.” I think that one of the problems that we are having is that you must remember that Christ came ONLY to the house of Israel because of a divorce law. Not the world! God lost ONLY the house of Israel due to a divorce law. God loved Abraham’s children. They are His inheritance and no others.

        Alfred said, “Do you therefore believe that all others (with no blood ties to Israel) are necessarily doomed, damned and deemed “expendable” since they won’t even have a chance as salvation?” Answer: First, the world did not need salvation. God did not divorce Adam and Eve, nor the world, nor the people of the world, nor the house of Judah. What I am not getting across to you is that it is true that God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son. But the world will receive great blessings from His people, the house of Judah and house of Israel. In Isaiah 56, we read that the Lord will accept any one who will submit and grab hold unto the covenant of the Lord. It is through His people, house of Judah and house of Israel, who will minister unto the people of the world, which in turn will be a blessing for the world.

         
      • Yartap

        April 30, 2013 at 7:06 PM

        Alfred, hear are some more verses about how God’s intent was for His people to be a blessing to the world.

        And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12: 3.

        And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. Genesis 22: 18.

        And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 28: 14.

         
      • Adask

        April 30, 2013 at 11:25 PM

        I suspect that one of the fundamental problems with the “chosen people” is seen in the question “chosen for what purpose?”

        I suspect that the “chosen people” were chosen by God to act as His servants (fiduciaries) for the benefit (blessings) of the rest of the world (the beneficiaries). Under that purpose, the “chosen people” would be a blessing to all the rest of the world.

        However, being a “blessing” to the rest of the world can a tough, thankless business. (Ask the Christ, who was crucified for his attempt to be a blessing for others.) Therefore, I suspect that the “chosen people” preferred to be “chosen” to be the beneficiaries who would receive the blessings rather than one of the servants who would help distribute all the blessings to others. As “beneficiaries,” the “chosen people” would be “chosen” to enjoy all of the world’s wealth and power rather than be “chosen” to be servants. In a sense, I suspect that “chosen people” were seduced by a “prosperity religion” much like that which is preached to many Christians today.

        For me, the label “chosen people” always implicates “chosen for what–to help distribute earthly blessings to others or to receive those blessings only for themselves. If they will help distribute (but not necessarily receive) the blessing in this life, then they will receive more blessings in the next life. But if they choose to receive the blessings in this life, they may receive little or no blessings in the next.

         
      • Jerry S

        April 30, 2013 at 11:44 PM

        Re:Ezekiel. 18
        Yartap, my friend, once again, it’s me, I guess, but, didn’t Noah, King David (A man after God’s own heart) Moses,& others die. God says he gets no pleasure in the death of the wicked. This tells me he does get pleasure in the death of the righteous BECAUSE their trials & tribulations are OVER. AND, they have the resurrection awaiting. It does not matter how much time passes before the resurrection. It will be like the twinkling of an eye,time wise to the righteous who have died. It will be as tho LESS than a second has passed, ….to them. I say this based on other scriptures.

         
      • Yartap

        May 1, 2013 at 2:41 PM

        Alfred,

        Why did God choose Abraham and his seed to be His chosen people? Because, God LOVED them (Deut. 7: 6-11), and God had “respect” of them (Exodus 2:25).

        What was the purpose of God’s chosen people? To be a Kingdom of Priest and a “peculiar treasure” unto Him (Exodus 19: 5-6 and Psalms 135:4), to represent God to the world and in the world. Thus, the world and nations would and do receive blessings from His Chosen.

        When Israel was disobeying God, why didn’t God utterly destroy the house of Israel and the house of Judah out of existence? Because, God remembered His covenant with Israel’s fathers (Exodus 2:24 and Leviticus 26: 40-46 and 1st Peter 2:9).

        Did God set up a trust for the world? Sort of, but not quite. God granted to His people the power to gain wealth, but it is though the people’s ability to gain Knowledge (also granted by God) that helps with the ability to gain wealth. Thus, God’s chosen and the people of the world who receive the great blessing in the world.

        Alfred, why would the chosen help others with obtaining these blessing from God? It is simple, you as the leader of your family helped your children with all their needs. Thus, in scripture we read the greatest shall help the least, the strong shall help the weak, the highest shall serve the lowest, the ruler shall serve the servant, and the first shall be last and the last shall be first. Remember, God serves us. Jesus served the house of Israel, so that, all in the world would continue to receive blessings from His people.

         
  40. Jerry S

    April 30, 2013 at 9:28 AM

    @ Incidentally, “sent” by whom?
    HIS-SELF !!! He said,to his-self, SELF,let US ……

     
  41. Jerry S

    April 30, 2013 at 10:45 AM

    Anon4fun
    April 30, 2013 at 10:06 AM
    @ John 6:38-40 < Can't git no plainnernnat. Thanks also, Anon4fun for understanding my "irony."

     
  42. Jerry S

    April 30, 2013 at 12:37 PM

    Re: Original Sin.
    The scripture does say,”as in Adam,all die, so in Christ, all will be made alive.” Here is a clearer way to say the same thing. BECAUSE of what Adam did, ALL will die, BUT BECAUSE of what Christ DID, ALL will be made alive AGAIN, after they/we/him/her, yes even the, ITS, DIE.The ITS will be brought back to life TOO !!! < Jerry-O-my-yuh, Chapter 1,verse 1.

     
    • Adask

      April 30, 2013 at 2:27 PM

      Thank you.

       
  43. Jerry S

    April 30, 2013 at 2:45 PM

    Adask
    @ > April 29, 2013 at 7:49 PM
    I Called her & she said she has 20-20 vision,& everything IS sincere appreciation, nothing flattering. Now here is something you may not believe. This lady,first came over with another lady, who I knew. I explained to the lady I knew that I could not allow teenagers in this house I won’t go into WHY i said this. Anyway,the “teenager” started laughing & proved to me she was 35 years old. Alfred, she is breathtakingly beautiful too !!! I still shake my head in disbelief,about her age. AND, you,Alfred, are welcome to put your shoes……….. WOW !! You better believe I wish I was you. But, in a way, I’m glad I’m not. Oh the temptation of it all. Love & war,love & war oh the shame of it all & it’s been this way since Eve did Adam in. I’m convinced that Satan KNEW he could not persuade Adam to sin,BUT HE KNEW WHO COULD, & Satan also knew who he could persuade to do his bidding. This is just my opinion. We know what that is worth. Opinions are what? I have the 9th article in addition to you know what to state my opinion, except in the “modern day courts.”

     
  44. Anon4fun

    April 30, 2013 at 7:05 PM

    Yartap: “God loved Abraham’s children. They are His inheritance and no others.”

    If you claim Jesus came to save his sheep among the lost sons of Abraham, I agree.

    Luke19:9-10 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

    And who are Abraham’s children, according to scripture?

    Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Christians are Abraham’s children.

     
    • Jerry S

      April 30, 2013 at 10:17 PM

      Anon4fun, hello out there,

      Romans 11:13 > I (Paul) am talking to you Gentiles. … I am saying all this especially for you Gentiles. God has appointed me as the apostle to the Gentiles. …”

      Romans 15:9 > and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. … He also came so that the Gentiles might give glory to God for his mercies to them. …

      Remember the song,Jesus loves the little children? All the children in the world.Red & Yellow,Black & white they’re all precious in his sight. I think it’s the “childlike difference” that makes the difference. I think you think so too.

       
    • Anthony Clifton

      May 3, 2013 at 6:55 AM

      There is an all-out war of words being waged in the circles of the Israel Truth, otherwise known as the Israel Identity. Parties on both sides of the issue have drawn a line in the sand, and ideological clenched fists are being shaken from indignant participants. Each participant, in his own way, is trying his best (or maybe his worst), in the most brutal manner, to draw ideological blood. They are aiming their rhetorical cutting words for no less than the proverbial jugular vein of their opponents in order to kill what they believe are damming heretical influences.

      Both sides go to long and contentious lengths in an attempt to prove their undying convictions on this subject. To these opposing adherents, there is no common middle ground for compromise, nor can there ever be any. This is a matter where one is either totally correct or totally wrong; no gray middle areas.

      http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/OriginOfTheJews.htm

      Many simply do not have a complete knowledge of this subject, but will find themselves eventually, on one side of the fence or the other. If one tries to straddle the fence on this subject, he will only find himself with his pants torn, and esposed in the most unseemly location. Like all controversies, there is usually a right and a wrong side to consider. And of course the [TALMUDIC] Jews are throwing in their provocateurs to cause continued friction between the two sides, to the point that neither side will relent even a little in their core beliefs. In this study we will be considering who is wrong on this GREATEST OF ALL ISSUES, at least some believe that it is the greatest of all issues.

       
  45. Yartap

    April 30, 2013 at 7:58 PM

    Anon4fun,

    I concur with your thoughts.

    It is God’s intent for His chosen people to be a blessing to the people of the earth.

    And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12: 3.

    And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. Genesis 22: 18.

    And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 28: 14.

    I have continued to ponder your thoughts about the old covenant ending for both, the house of Israel and the house of Judah and I concur. But, I reserve the belief that God had to overcome His divorce law (Deut. 24: 1-4) with His redeemer, Jesus. Paul explains how this (overcoming the divorce law) was done in Romans 7: 1-4 to redeem the house of Israel.

    I know how you say that both houses were divorced by God (by the ending of the old covenant for both); and one might think that and see no big difference. One might claim and believe that Jesus died upon the cross to redeem both houses back into “one fold,” as Jesus claimed to be one part of his mission. But for some reason, which I don’t know why I feel this way, my heart tells me that God has ways of placing test or trial before us, like…..Establishing the requirement that all (the world, nations and the house of Judah) accept that Christ did come and die upon the cross for the house of Israel’s redemption.
    Something in my heart relates the house of Judah as the faithful elder son and the house of Israel as the prodigal younger son (Luke 15: 11-32). The test or trial would be for the elder son (Judah) to accept Israel as one of God’s chosen, to accept the return of Israel and to believe in Israel’s repentance.

    What are your thoughts?

     
    • Jerry S

      April 30, 2013 at 9:18 PM

      @ > What are your thoughts?
      Maybe it’s me,this time,not understanding,but here goes anyway. I know you did not ask me my thoughts so please don’t be angry with me for responding anyway

      Jeremiah 3:6 > During the reign of King Josiah, the Lord said to me, “Have you seen what faithless Israel has done? She has gone up on every high hill and under every spreading tree and has committed adultery there. 7. I thought that after she had done all this she would return to me but she did not, and her unfaithful sister Judah saw it. 8. I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery. 9. Because Israel’s immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. 10. In spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, but only in pretense,” declares the Lord.11. The Lord said to me, “Faithless Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah.

      Yartap, I fail to see HOW he divorced Israel & stayed married to Judah, according to what the above scriptures say.

       
      • Yartap

        April 30, 2013 at 10:47 PM

        Jerry, I want you to know that you will always have an open invitation to give me your thoughts.

        Jerry, your thoughts make sense to me. How could He remain married to Judah? That is the question. Of course my thoughts of Israel as being the prodigal son is flawed in logic. It still weighs on me.

        I know that Hosea came unto the house of Israel during their captivity and before the captivity of the house of Judah, but Hosea 1: 6-7 says, “6…..I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. 7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horse, nor by horsemen.

        Could it be Nehemiah’s covenant or pledge (Neh. 10:28-39) to God upon the remnant of Judah’s return from Babylonian’s captivity? Is this the covenant with Judah(?), because in Hebrew 8 the new covenant is with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, but the conditions or terms are ONLY given to or towards the house of Israel (Hebrews 8:10-12). Is this new covenant made part of or added to Nehemiah’s covenant?

        Let’s continue the thoughts.

         
    • Jerry S

      May 1, 2013 at 12:05 AM

      @ > Let’s continue the thoughts.
      As Tony the Tiger would say,Grrrrrreat ! You make sense too. I will prayerfully think about your response & let’s see what happens. It may take a while tho. As far as prodigal sons go, I am one but I am too ashamed to ask for forgiveness. On the other hand, I don’t want to be thrown into the lake of fire, either. I’m sort of “between the devil & the deep blue sea.” It’s like saying, keep me down Lord, maybe then, I’ll straighten up. Jesus said he KNEW what was IN man. I only know what is in me & it ain’t a pretty picture. Most people are not aware of this,i.e., what I’m speaking of.

       
    • Jerry S

      May 1, 2013 at 3:35 PM

      @ > Or was John raised from the grave?
      So, are you saying Elijah was raised from the grave to be born from Elizabeth who was John’s mother? There were people who were “like” other people before them,by deeds,& thoughts & actions & comparison wise were “called” as “being” like the one who was BEFORE him. Anyway, since I am thought of as a smart ass, I will no longer be a smart ass & respond to anyone. I am responding to you,Yartap, because I said I would. By the way, the scripture DOES say that Adam & Eve “SHALL BE ONE FLESH.” It’s a matter of understanding what ONE in that sense means. YOU, your wife & your children are ONE……….. family.

       
      • Yartap

        May 2, 2013 at 11:07 AM

        Jerry,

        I concur with you.

        I believe that John and Elijah are two bodies and one soul.

         
  46. Jerry S

    April 30, 2013 at 8:36 PM

    Alfred Adask
    @ >This issue (whether the Christ is or is not God) is ultimately based on contradictions found in the Bible.
    Don’t mean to be pushy, but I sure would appreciate it if you would post just one of the “contradictions.” I do not see any difference in saying,Jesus is the Son of God,and he said…., v. Jesus, God’s Son,said…. There are spirit being families & flesh & blood families. To me, Adam & Eve was / made up,a family. Their children only increased the “size of the family.” The Apostle Paul speaks of the “whole family” IN heaven The scriptures mention a “third heaven.” From this, I conclude there must be two others, heavens that is.If I am understanding Anon4fun, he says, the son of God,is not the same as, God’s son,or,God, the son. NOW, when the scriptures say, the sons of God saw the daughters of men, I believe, “those sons of God” were flesh & blood beings, God seemed to be upset with MAN from what was going on, by saying,”my spirit will not ALWAYS strive with “man.” Adam, was also called, “a, or, the son of God,too. I’m like Huey,I don’t know nuthin,for certain.Does 1 + 1 still = 2 ? I have to hold on to somethings, otherwise it will just become worse & more confusing than it is.I have heard that death & taxes are for certain. I believe this too. BUT I ALWAYS stand to be corrected on ANYTHING.

     
    • Adask

      April 30, 2013 at 11:13 PM

      The contradictions I’m referring to are the evidence that some people point to that says God and the Christ are one being, and the evidence that others (like me) point to that says God and the Christ are two.

       
      • Jerry S

        May 1, 2013 at 12:24 AM

        “They” ARE two beings. We have physical examples to go on also,e.g., Adam & Eve. Two beings who became ONE,or thought of as being ONE. I had TWO Mothers at ONE time, The lady I married had a Mother. That lady was my Mother IN LAW,i.e., via YHWH’s LAW. ALL of your questions about,e.g. WHO was “Jesus” praying too,when he said, Father,etc., You are RIGHT. I cannot see how your questions are not understood. I understand them. Remember Jesus also prayed that THEY (others) eventually, would become ONE “as” He and the Father were/are, one. You have heard the expression, about a man referring to his wife as, “my better half.” 1/2 + 1/2 = 1,……I think.. You’re a good man, Alfred Adask. By the way, when I saw your picture (seminar picture) I gave you a big bear hug. I thought, look at my beautiful Brother. He’s my Brother, he ain’t heavy,Remember that?

         
      • Adask

        May 1, 2013 at 12:31 AM

        Actually, I was kinda “heavy” in that video. I was probably about 205. But I’ve lost about 20 pounds since then, so now, “I ain’t heavy, I’m the blog operator.” (That’s a song, see?)

         
      • Yartap

        May 1, 2013 at 12:52 PM

        FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION….

        We are told by scripture, that when a man marries, he and his wife are TWO which become ONE. Of course, this is TWO souls and bodies working as ONE family, just like MANY souls and bodies working as ONE named group. How does this apply to God and Jesus? Does it even relate to God and Jesus? For God declared that “all souls are Mine.”

        Next, we are told by scripture, that Elijah was also John the Baptist. Now, we have TWO bodies with ONE soul. Or was John raised from the grave?, meaning ONE body and ONE soul. Jesus knew that John the Baptist was Elijah. Did John the Baptist know he was Elijah?

        Give me your thoughts.

         
  47. Jerry S

    May 1, 2013 at 1:42 AM

    I’m kinda tired, but I ain’t tawkin baut the video itself, I muh tawkin baut the picture with you in the orange windbreaker. It looks like part of the State of Oregon in the background, mountains, fjords, etc. This is how I remember it anyhows. I have watched the video 3 times & I have some questions re: it I would like to submit someday.He ain’t heavy…. was a Father Flanagan,Boy’s town picture showing a young lad carrying his brother & saying, he ain’t heavy, he’s my brother.It touched my heart & still does. This is what I thought of when I saw your, what I call your seminar picture. I wanted to pick you up & run away with you to escape,get you away from the evil things in this world. My intentions were good. I do have an odd imagination, I know this. Going to bed. OH !! I tried to answer your message of April 30, 2013 at 12:27 am,3 times but none of it would go through I too had the same experience. It lasted for 3 days & slowly ebbed away after that. I thought I was glowing all over. I recall looking at myself to see if I was glowing. I was lifted from the depths of despair to “that peace that passes all understanding.” I honestly believe it will be that way 24 hours a day, every day for eternity for the “overcomers who endure until the end.”

     
    • Adask

      May 1, 2013 at 4:10 AM

      You’re making me a little uncomfortable with your desire to “hug” me and your peculiar “Going to bed” statement. Look, Jerry, I’m not that kinda guy–see? If we ever meet, I suppose we might share a hug, but it would be strictly platonic–understand? No “Going to bed”–OK?

       
      • Jerry S

        May 1, 2013 at 11:30 AM

        I started out saying I’m kinda tired. I was actually yawning & wanted to go to bed & respond when I woke up. There is nothing unusual about going to bed under those circumstances,also, when it is almost 2 a.m. You make me feel uncomfortable for caring for you. I have seen,on rare occasions, sad to say, dad’s hugging their sons, brothers hugging brothers & even tears,shed, at times when they were either saying goodbye or seeing each other for the first time in a long time. I never experienced this kind of affection apparently because my dad thought, like you imply, real men don’t do things like that. Satan has perverted every true thing of “God.” I don’t think faggots give each other “bear hugs” but I don’t know. Their hugs are probably dainty & prissified. This is something else I have never understood, how a man is attracted to another man,sexually. NOW, on the other hand, I could read your comment to mean you were being humorous, & I could respond by saying,”No going to bed” ?? “AW SHUCKS Alfred. DARN. I am so disappointed.” The problem is, I cannot read hearts & minds. BUT I think you thought I am probably a homosexual. Tell you what, & I’ll make a bet with you. If my comment was addressed to Anon4fun, he would have understood it as I meant it. I know Huey would. I think Yartap would too,& Doug,& a couple more. Now, after your response, I certainly would not attempt to hug you. I don’t want to offend anyone,knowingly. I also think palani, would advise against shaking hands too. A man’s word is not his bond anymore.

         
      • Adask

        May 1, 2013 at 12:28 PM

        I don’t expect you to read “hearts and minds”. I did not, do not, thing you are “homosexual”. (At least, not yet.) But I did think that a man who jokes around on this blog as much as you might also recognize a little “humor” from someone else. Jerry, you are not alone. You are not the only “smart ass” on this blog.

         
  48. Jerry S

    May 1, 2013 at 1:35 PM

    The one thing that is disappointing about most of all the other posters on your blog is that none of them want to bring any errors or misunderstandings that YOU make to your attention. As far as being a “smart ass” I know I am not the “only” one,on your blog. Fact is, I only know of “one” other.

    Per your statement,in pertinent part,> “You’re making me a little uncomfortable with your desire to “hug” me………” < I think desire & lust are two entirely different things. Rest assured if I ever do meet you before this present life is over, I will not hug you & that is a promise. When I was a child, I could not have been more than 6 years old,because, I had never started in school,1st grade, anyway, I had a dream about "Jesus" I picked him up in my arms & was running away with him, getting him away from these "mean" people who were trying to hurt him. I put him in my Dad's "MOTOR VEHICLE" & drove him away from these "mean" people who were trying to hurt him. I still have a lot of child like tendecies. Just think, if Satan had done all he could to have prevented "Jesus" from being killed, instead of "influencing" others to kill him, he would have succeeded in spoiling the plan of "God." I bet he never thought of that. Do you consider this another "smart ass" thought. Just hope that I do not make it into the "Kingdom" IF I do you just might have to give me a hug, and we can't have that now, can we? I know this much. You do not need any "smart asses" on your blog. Goodbye,excuse me,fare-the-well. No need to respond. I won't answer if you do.

     
  49. Anon4fun

    May 1, 2013 at 9:48 PM

    Yartap: “The test or trial would be for the elder son (Judah) to accept Israel as one of God’s chosen, to accept the return of Israel and to believe in Israel’s repentance.”

    Jeremiah used a different sibling metaphor.

    Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

    In addition, consider the following:

    Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

    Those from whom the kingdom of God was taken – they who rejected the prophets God sent them, including the Son – are not the same as those to whom the kingdom of God was then given.

     
    • Yartap

      May 2, 2013 at 11:28 AM

      Anon4fun,

      I totally concur with you.

      As I have told Jerry earlier, my thoughts of the prodigal son were illogical. Yours is much better. We see this happen after Jesus goes to heaven, thought the 11 followers and Paul. The fruits that have been brought forth, I believe, points to the U.S.

       

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