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WWJD

05 Jan

Next time someone asks, “What would Jesus Do?”

WWJD1

 

You might answer that tipping over tables and chasing people with a whip is not outside the realm of possibilities.

 
165 Comments

Posted by on January 5, 2014 in Bible

 

Tags: ,

165 responses to “WWJD

  1. buck

    January 5, 2014 at 5:23 PM

    I use this reason all the time to explain my behavior.

     
    • J.M.

      January 5, 2014 at 8:56 PM

      buck
      @ > I use this reason all the time to explain my behavior.
      I like your sense of humor. But, the truth is the truth, e.g., so do I.

       
  2. Peg-Powers

    January 5, 2014 at 5:30 PM

    Don’t let the homely but colorful artwork deceive you. The Pharisee/Sadducee BANKING operation was set up prominently and permanently in the temple to do business, just as you now see done within the likes of Safeway or other food-chain stores, etc.

     
    • J.M.

      January 5, 2014 at 6:49 PM

      Peg-Powers
      @ > Don’t let the homely but colorful artwork deceive you.

      What is deceiving about it? True, it’s only an Artist’s idea of an event that really did happen. If anything, the artwork baby-fied the actual event. It was really, in my imagination a lot worse than the artwork shows. Mayhem. A man after my own heart, the Messiah. Also, he did not look anything like the artwork shows. He inspired the words, it is a shame for a man to have long hair but long hair is a woman’s crowning glory. So here is another Satan inspired thing. Make him look feminine,weak,sissy like,etc. WHAT A MAN HE REALLY WAS. My Friend too. Sad in a way, to say he also said that event would be his undoing. BUT, this undoing became our uplifting, however. As far as I’m concerned, I think we need to do the same thing,as he did,although it may be our undoing too,but I don’t think so. I believe he will intervene. He does promise to come back & establish HIS ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.Seems to me that would be a good time, when we are at least trying to throw out the moneychangers.

       
    • Cody

      January 6, 2014 at 6:57 PM

      Maybe more correctly the IRS via 26 USC 501(c)(3), “Christian investments” and other scams within the ‘churches’…

       
      • Christian Gains

        January 7, 2014 at 3:12 PM

        Hi JM.. (BTW, this window displays the statement: “Leave a reply to CODY” — I’m replying to J.M., don’t know who Cody is. Just to clarify).

        I concur that each of the saved, born again brethren have gifts (both available, or, already given), by the Lord’s Spirits’ choice…(I Cor. 12). Yes. And, those gifts are powerful.

        If David has that sort of authoritative power, more power to him. God Bless him. But, I must point out that some gifts are not for all, and therefore, the “gifted” must take care not to encourage people to “try this at home” so to speak, UNLESS they (those other people), KNOW they also have such authority. It’s certainly offered clearly in several verses (Matt.16:19; Lk.10:19; Jn.14:12; etc.), but, in the use of them, we must be “wise as serpents, and harmless as doves”.

        Now, this opens up a broader perspective on “gifts”. Especially in the days.

        Is anyone here familiar with the “back story” [so to speak], of Gen.6:1 – 5 & 8 – 13, in relationship to Jesus’s declaration: “But as the days of Noe’ were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be”;[Matt.24:37], and His Matt.16:19 statement of a gift He’s given us? What would link His Matt.16:19 promise, to His Matt.24:37 statement?

        I’d enjoy hearing your thoughts J.M, (or, ANYONE who wishes to follow up this idea)…

         
    • J.M.

      January 9, 2014 at 9:56 AM

      Hi Peg-Powers,
      True.Instead of treating the effect (routing them out) the cause must be eliminated. The slithering snakes always slide back in.

       
  3. Au Matu

    January 5, 2014 at 7:09 PM

    Reblogged this on I Au Matu.

     
  4. Yartap

    January 5, 2014 at 8:32 PM

    The story about Jesus driving out the merchants from the temple, is a story about the disrespect that people have for God and the authority of Christ. In John 2: 17, the disciples remember the verse from Psalms about, “The zeal (disrespect, indignation and evil) of thine house hath eaten me up.” When the Jews ask him about his authority to do such, he answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”, which they did not understand that he was speaking about his resurrection.

    Christ’s authority and body is the church.
    See Ephesians 1: 22-23, and Ephesians 5:29-30, and Colossians 1:18.

     
  5. Martens

    January 5, 2014 at 9:10 PM

    This incident, the cleansing of the Temple, foreshadows the final judgment that was to befall the Temple and all of Jerusalem about 40 years later in 70 AD.

    Jesus quotes from then-existing scripture, thus identifying his time with the time in the quoted prophesy:

    Luke19:45-46 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

    Jeremiah 7:11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.

    What was to follow:

    Jeremiah 7:14-16 Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

    Just before the above-cited passage in Luke, Jesus had this to say about Jerusalem:

    Luke 19:43-44 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

    In saying “the time of thy visitation”, Jesus was of course referring to himself and his own time, so these events were to occur in the near future, i.e. during “this generation”.

     
    • Christian Gains

      January 6, 2014 at 10:58 AM

      Martens, that was extremely well stated, and absolutely correct. Most folks are not aware of how MUCH of Jesus’ statements were directly linked to Old Testament declarations. He LITERALLY was THE WORD incarnate…In both of the cases (in the 2 examples from Luke), Jesus is fulfilling another prophecy/promise: Amos3:7 — “Surely the Lord god will do nothing except HE reveal it to HIS servants, the prophets”. Jerusalem was thoroughly warned, just as we, as a Nation are being warned by MANY voices & events…beginning with 911.

       
      • Christian Gains

        January 6, 2014 at 11:00 AM

        OOPS! Meant to Capitalize “God”…

         
      • J.M.

        January 7, 2014 at 8:05 AM

        Christian Gains,
        Tell us about your understanding of the two witnesses in Revelation.

         
      • J.M.

        January 7, 2014 at 5:27 PM

        Christian Gains,
        I am sending this message to you, or at least I will try, by going to a comment you made previously, that has a “REPLY” to click on. First, I am at a loss to understand this part,of the last, at this time, message you sent to me,& presuming you did send the comment/message to me. OK, in pertinent part, you say, > (BTW, this window displays the statement: “Leave a reply to CODY” . “But, I must point out that some gifts are not for all.” Either you did not receive ALL of my message, OR you overlooked, did not read ALL of my comment/message As far, as the remainder of your last, at this time, comment to me, I WILL read the scriptures you gave & tell you “my understanding” of same. BUT, if “odd” things keep happening, as I have tried to explain re: all of my comment NOT going through, even tho I see, the post comment sign saying POSTING COMMENT, & yet ALL of my comment DID NOT post, it’s useless to send anymore partially posted comments. Confusion begets confusion.

         
  6. J.M.

    January 5, 2014 at 9:15 PM

    Yartap, Shalom again my friend

    @ > Christ’s authority and body is the church.
    This doesn’t help much, in & of itself, as there are more so called churches, I cannot count that high. I remember hearing, Now please remember folks,tomorrow is Sunday, the day of the Lord,so please go to the church of your choice.to worship. This sounds good & right, but, it is superficial. If the Good Lord’s Kingdom is made up of all these conflicting churches, it seems to me it’s like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. Which/what church do you mean, you don’t mean the church of your choice, I hope?

     
    • Yartap

      January 5, 2014 at 11:09 PM

      Greeting my Friend in Christ,

      I understand what you are saying, Jim. I, too, have longed for a church that teaches both testaments, where politics are not involved. It is truly hard to find.

      But, I remember what Paul said about a believing spouse staying with an unbelieving spouse in 1st Corinthians 7: 12-17. But note verse 16, where Paul offers questions about saving a spouse (unbeliever). Can a unbeliever be converted?

      Now read all of Matthew chapter 7; and note verse 7, verses 13-14, verses 14-20 and verses 21-23. Further read Proverbs 1:24-33.

      Now, Jim let’s read Matthew 18: 20, and Jesus said,

      “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, THERE AM I in the midst of them.”

      Jim, this blog set up by Alfred is a church. Welcome! Even to the unbelievers that are hear -Welcome!

      Jim, I DO NOT like a church or a pastor that candy coats what is going on in our world. I DO like a church that will correct me when I’m wrong. Most hear seek and share the Lord, and the truth. That is why I’m hear.

      Your Friend in Christ,

      Yartap

       
      • Yartap

        January 6, 2014 at 12:01 AM

        I’m sorry Jim,

        In my first sentence, I meant to say, “where CHURCH politics are not involved.”

        Blessing, Yartap.

         
      • J.M.

        January 6, 2014 at 12:11 AM

        Shalom, Brother Yartap,
        @ > “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, THERE AM I in the midst of them.”
        I think you & I understand alike what this scripture means without asking you. I have been stunned by answers on what it means by a lot of other people. Here is another way of saying the same thing. For where two or three are gathered to seek my will, for that which I say is right, for the purpose of wanting to know what I have to say/think about it,etc. < Just a few examples.

        People are not gathered together in his "name" if they think the 10 commandments are merely 10 suggestions. Catch this. Father as we both know my neighbor Ralph, has a beautiful wife but I think I can be a better husband for her than Ralph is. So Father, I ask in the Name of Jesus that you do whatever is necessary to persuade her to understand this, & divorce Ralph so I can marry her. Once again, Father, I ask for this in the name of Jesus.< This IS NOT asking for something in "his name."
        And it doesn't matter if we ask in the name of yeshua, yahshua, or any other name that people think is the name of the Messiah. The foregoing selfish inspired by evil prayer is not asking for something in the name of the Messiah whatever the correct spelling & pronouncing of it is. Just saying I ask in the name of whatever name is chosen doesn't get it. A lot of people do not remotely understand what "gathered together in his name" means. I have even been told whatever you ask for you will receive if you ask for it & use the name, Jesus. Oh My !!!

         
      • Yartap

        January 6, 2014 at 1:39 AM

        My Brother Jim,

        I concur with your thoughts. “Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lust.” James 4:3.

        Further, we have been warned by His Word. If one prays in the name of Jesus with a request in a sinful nature (like: not loving thy neighbor). He will hear, and allow blindness to come upon that sinner; so, that the sinner will continue and compound in his own sins.

        Blessing to you, Yartap.

         
      • Adask

        January 6, 2014 at 2:36 AM

        Thank you, Yartap. You flatter me and those who follow and comment on this blog. I won’t say that I ever intended that this blog would “be” a church, but I’ve always hoped that some of the articles might might support one or more churches. I’m more than pleased to see that someone else has picked up on my intentions. Thanks, again.

         
    • Christian Gains

      January 7, 2014 at 3:39 AM

      J.M., Let’s look at that word “CHURCHES”…(I won’t do your home work for you…but here’s a hint –Concordance:#1577 – “ekklesia”…”a calling out”….(Strongs’ Concordance; pg. 28, [Greek Testament section].

      What were they called out of? How about — “out of a SYSTEM”…a CONTROL SYSTEM…

      And what does our Savior say about that “SYSTEM” in Matt.23? hmmmmm???? [RE-READ & STUDY Matt. Chap.5 through 8, (esply. zero in on Chap. 5).

      And THEN ask the Lord, “Are verses 21 thru 48 (please note the “Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time…”, — and seek to understand why that statement is pertinent to AUTHORITY…rather than acceptability, or popularity), significant to our “AUTHORITY” in CHRIST? Give this some judicious study and prayer….(HINT: what s the difference between “AUTHORITY” and “DECLARATION” or “STATEMENT”?) J.M., I hope this helps you better appreciate Yeshuah’s AUTHORITY…let me hear your response….O.K.?

       
      • J.M.

        January 7, 2014 at 6:54 AM

        To > Christian Gains,
        Re: > January 7, 2014 at 3:39 AM
        J.M., Let’s look at that word “CHURCHES”…………………”

        First of all,Thanks for trying to help me. We are not robots & we are not going to understand everything alike, sad to say. Re: CHURCHES. I see the words, “Church of God,Churches of God (those words) MANY times, at least in the New Testament. Then I am told IT IS NOT the New Testament it’s the Hew Covenant. I try not to strain at gnats & swallow camels. Look, IF we were all born in Egypt, educated there, their way, we would think like Egyptians.I’m not certain as to what you are trying to explain. Take into consideration that I do not have much “formal education” as is obvious. It is also obvious you do have. Please use the k.i.s.s. method with me.. I think if you will cut & paste what I said, that prompted you to send me a message, I may be able to know what you are trying to tell me. As far as CHURCHES go, or what that word means, I believe it means People/Peoples. I see that you write & sometimes use the name, Jesus, but this time you use the name Yeshuah. Are both correct? If not ,which one is? What about Yahshua? If you say, NO, it’s Yeshuah, you know there will be others who will disagree. Just cut & paste what I said, & then I may be able to respond to you in a sensible way. Maybe I put a period where there should be a question mark. Maybe I put a coma, in the wrong place. I have done this before, & not just once.

        Don’t give up on me, just yet anyway.

         
      • J.M.

        January 7, 2014 at 5:30 PM

        Christian Gains
        I DID NOT PUT ANYTHING IN ITALICS AS MY LAST MESSAGE TO YOU SHOWS. Fare-The-Well Friends.

         
    • Christian Gains

      January 7, 2014 at 4:05 AM

      J.M. I refer you to my post/reply to (after “Yartap” and ADASK’S post below…you’ll find my last post).

      The “EKKLESA” (“called out ones”), is the “BODY OF CHRIST”….BUT!…The “Organized, Religious System” is NOT!

      It equates to the Pharisees of Yeshuahs’ day — (self-righteous, “holier than thou”, pious control freaks)….”Christ’s authority & body is (NOT) the “church”…it is the STATEMENTS OF, GOD THE FATHER, and, GOD THE SON….(Isa. 41:12 – 44:28; and Jn.1:1 – 14). BEWARE the “Organized Religious System”!!!! It is equivalent to the Pharisees of Matt.23, !!!

       
      • J.M.

        January 7, 2014 at 7:37 AM

        @ > J.M. I refer you to my post/reply to (after “Yartap” and ADASK’S post below
        There is not any “Yartap” and ADASK’S post below. Something is wrong. There IS a “Yartap” and ADASK’S post ABOVE. This is on my end of the line. Also, I do not understand why LATELY when I submit a message & I see “posting comment,only part of it goes through & even then, it is not all as I wrote it. I wrote,End of message & my comment,previously & these words did not go through. My message did, but the words, “End of message & my comment” < just those words, did not The message was from Christianity.com (a cut & paste from me,sent by me) So it posted as tho my comment was a part of what Christianity.com said. Not a good thing. However, this rarely happens.

         
      • J.M.

        January 10, 2014 at 2:38 PM

        @ Christian Gains, >The “EKKLESA” (“called out ones”), is the “BODY OF CHRIST”
        I know this. But how was I wrong by saying the word church means, people? Also, I used, as translated, “Church & Churches of God..This is what Paul said,e.g. To the Church of God in (different locations). Still, the word church, in & of itself means people. I understood the question to be,”what does the word,church,mean? If I was asked,what does,Church of God,as written in the testament mean, the answer is above,as explained by you

         
  7. ct3

    January 5, 2014 at 10:44 PM

    Re: translation or definition of the word “zeal”, . . . Strong’s concordance for both the Hebrew & Greek. Psalm 69:9 and John 2:17. i don’t see at all how you can translate or interpret it the way you did. do you disagree with Strong’s on this?! sorry, i’m just not getting it. Sorry.

     
    • Yartap

      January 5, 2014 at 11:39 PM

      Hi ct3,

      No, ct3, I do not disagree with Strong, I concur. I may have taken some lazy liberty in describing the word, “zeal,” with my interpretation. Please forgive me. But, I got its main meaning from the Geneva Bible and its side note for a better understanding. Hear it is as follows:

      John 2:17
      1599 Geneva Bible

      “And his disciples remembered, that it was written, The [a] zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.”
      Footnotes:
      a John 2:17 Zeal in this place is taken for a wrathful indignation and displeasure of the mind, conceived of some naughty and evil dealing towards them whom we love well.

      Thanks,

      Yartap

       
      • J.M.

        January 6, 2014 at 12:56 AM

        Yartap,
        I like your interpretation. To me, it’s not actually an interpretation. It profoundly describes what it is/was.Disrespect, indignation and evil. Yes, good choice of words, Yartap

         
  8. Pat Fields

    January 6, 2014 at 1:57 AM

    Might that ‘tradition’ be continued by ‘churches’ acting in the ‘persons’ of ‘tax-exempted entities’, wherein, ‘exchange’ of proprietary (Caesar’s) currency is ‘benefited’ under the State’s ‘leave’? Seems so to me. Ergo … a WHOLE LOT of ‘whippin’ to be done.

    “When misguided public opinion honors what is despicable and despises what is honorable, punishes virtue and rewards vice, encourages what is harmful and discourages what is useful, applauds falsehood and smothers truth under indifference or insult, a nation turns its back on progress and can be restored only by the terrible lessons of catastrophe.” … Frederic Bastiat

     
    • J.M.

      January 6, 2014 at 6:33 PM

      Pat Fields
      @ > January 6, 2014 at 1:57 AM
      Yes indeed,& how tragic.

       
      • Christian Gains

        January 8, 2014 at 2:28 PM

        Hi again J.M. (I’m doing the same as you did, and found a post you sent that has a “REPLY”)…

        In answer to your question about my thinking in relation to the REVELATION 11 “TWO WITNESSES”, after years of puzzling over that question, I’ve finally zeroed in on two potentialities.
        #1] We know that John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah: “…this is Elias, which was for to come…”,(Matt.11:11 – 15 esply. ver.14 & Mk.9:11 – 13), [which is the fulfillment of Malachi 4:5]. And, we also know that at the transfiguration, both Moses & Elias were present, as Peter identified them. (Matt.17:1 – 4; & Mk.9:2 – 5). so, here we have two instances where human men, LONG DEAD, manifest in the physical realm, and are seen by both multitudes, and by Peter, James, and John. And Peter even recognizes who they both are, at the transfiguration. So, there is the possibility that Moses & Elias, [Elijah] will again manifest in Jerusalem in the last days of the END TIMES.

        #2] We also know that numerous times, throughout the Scriptures, “angels” [#46, #47 & #4397 (all 3 of these words describe these beings as ‘mighty ones’ and ‘messengers’)] are used by God to take and deliver messages to humans, [both singularly & plural]. And, as well, the two witnesses bring a message to Jerusalem, which might even be broadcast throughout the Earth by the MSM.
        (won’t THAT be ironic!?)

        So, I’ve concluded that one of these two facts MIGHT be the answer, OR, {more than likely}, we’ll have to wait and see. There’s just not enough conclusive evidence to determine, with certainty, just who, or, what, these two witnesses are.

        But, we can be certain that they WILL be there, AND that they WILL have super natural powers and authority for 1260 days; [Rev. 11:3], BTW, that’s the same amount of time that Gentiles will “trodden under foot” the Court of the [3rd] Temple; [Rev.11:2 42 months = 1260 days] Hope this helps!

         
    • J.M.

      January 9, 2014 at 2:52 AM

      @ > ‘tax-exempted entities’, …”

      IF IF IF you mean those 501 C3 type v. “NON 501 C3 or whatever the number is, churches, the only difference is just that, nothing else. I can go to either & get the same B.S. sermons.And, I say this because I have visited both types. Maybe I misunderstood your comment, if so, I apologize.

       
  9. David Baugh

    January 6, 2014 at 10:16 AM

    Friends, the term “church” appears to me to be misunderstood in the foregoing commentary. It is not merely some congregation or gathering of people in a building designated for such purpose. According to Strong’s, the term is derived from the Greek word “Eklesia” (not sure of the spelling) which means “the called out ones” who gather together and choose to set up a community or even a nation and choose to live under and by our Creator/Savior’s Laws, statutes and judgments. Today’s social clubs, erroneously called “churches” today, are akin to the “high places” or “groves” which operated in a symbiotic relationship with the political establishment. While having a place for fellowship and learning is a good thing, unfortunately, the majority of such congregational social clubs are basically just that–social clubs that practice “churchianity” and “religiousity” and represent those folks described in Matthew 7:21-23 & 15:7-9. Instead of accepting the fact that we contemporary Israelites, now known as “Caucasian Christians” have been redeemed from the alien dominion our Creator had sent us into by divorcing us (Jeremiah 3:8) by the coming, death, burial, and resurrection of our Savior, Jesus Christ, and choosing “to obey God rather than men” (Acts 5:29) pursuant to James 1:25, we have allowed our own corporate fiction creature government image and mere human political usurpers running it to render our Creator/Savior’s laws of no effect, which is the same Baal worship that got us into trouble before. Just as was said by Bastiat as quoted in the foregoing commentary, it is calling that which is evil good and that which is good evil pursuant to Isaiah 5:20, 21, 23 and unless a sufficient remnant of us once again give our Creator/Savior the honor and glory due Him by declaring Him alone as our Only Risen King, Savior & Law-Giver as was done in the 1700’s, this wonderful land of His promise and our birthright is going to continue to suffer from His curses instead of having His blessings pursuant to Deuteronomy, Chapter 28. In parting, I have to say that the biggest problem we have in America today is not the government; it is not “Satan”; it is not the debauched money system; it is not the immorality. These are but symptoms of a much greater problem. What is the best way to conquer a nation of people? History shows it is through their religion, and, in our case, by corrupting our society and through false doctrines of men and “Jewish fables” spewed forth from the pulpits by pastors described in Jeremiah, Chapter 23. Who has given us the “strong delusions” so that we would “believe the lie?” Our Creator/Savior (see II Thessalonians 2:11). Who does our Creator use to chastise us when we stray away from Him and His “perfect law of liberty?” Our antichrist adversaries whom our Creator/Savior hates said to be “vessels of wrath fitted to destruction” (Edomites & Canaanites. See Judges 2:1-3 & Malachi 1 & Romans 9). According to our Savior, He rules us and has given us the power to see to it His will/law is done in our lands according to His Laws as set forth in Scripture. In the 1600’s and 1700’s, American Pastors were preaching Liberty and freedom and resistance to the British Crown. Many of said pastors were officers in the army. I highly recommend reading “The Light & The Glory,” by Peter Marshall & David Manuel. In essence, what early Christian Americans did was drive the moneychangers and their predatory, plundering government armed thugs out of America thereby giving our Creator/Savior the honor & glory due Him whereupon He enabled us to defeat the most powerful armed force on the face of the earth. The good news is, we were conquered without a shot being fired, and we can be rid of our woes in the same manner simply by turning back to our Creator/Savior pursuant to II Chronicles 7:14 and then we will witness what is said in Matthew 13:37-43. YHWH speed the day!

     
    • Yartap

      January 6, 2014 at 12:29 PM

      David,

      Amen!

       
    • J.M.

      January 6, 2014 at 1:10 PM

      Hi David,
      Appreciate your message. I remember many years ago when I was forced to go to church by & with my parents, the preacher, my dad,& several others,including two women, were outside, standing on the church building steps smoking cigarettes. I can see them all, including preacher Nolan, right now, in my thoughts, dropping the cigarettes to the steps & “putting the cigarettes out, with their shoes” & see them going inside to begin “services.” I am reminded of the song,that says when they meet Saint Peter at the Golden Gate, they’ll say, Saint Pete we hate to make it wait,but we just gotta have another cigarette.

       
      • David Baugh

        January 6, 2014 at 1:23 PM

        Thanks J.M. Yeah, I remember that old song. Your response made me laugh. I consider myself blessed because I was not “forced to go to church” as you were, although my dearly beloved Grandmother dragged me off to a small church where she taught Sunday school to the children and I learned from that. She planted some seeds that later on took root and grew as I started studying Scripture for myself. Most all of the folks that are involved in what is called “Judeochristianity” do not realize that term is an oxymoron and is a religion contrary to true Christianity which is actually a social, political, economic and environmental system by which we are to establish our respective nations among the “multitude of nations” we have become. The bottom line is, we should not be waiting on Jesus to come and save us once again from our own lawlessness because, in reality, He is waiting on us to once again declare Him as King as did early American colonists. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever pursuant to Hebrews 13:8. He is long suffering and allowing His and our adversaries to chastise us to such an extent that a sufficient remnant of us turn back to Him as aforesaid. It seems to be working!

         
    • Christian Gains

      January 8, 2014 at 3:08 PM

      VERY WELL STATED David! Very clear and true! The only thing that I’d add is that I believe that this Nation has, (as a people), made a free will choice to reject the Creator, His Son, and, His Holy Spirits’ influence, and have CHOSEN to run after the fruits of the flesh;[Gal 5:15 – 21]. Also, (when one compares the Commercial system and methods that Americas has employed, (over the last 100 yrs. or more), to the description in Revelation 18, it is difficult to not consider the HIGHLY LIKELY reality that the once Godly Nation, has turned utterly un-Godly and become Babylon the Whore!

      Interestingly enough, it was in New York City, that this Nation was dedicated & commissioned to God Almighty, Creator of ALL things! And, it is New York City that now spawns MOST of the evil & wretched methods of slavery, murder [shedding of innocent blood] & debaucherty, (not to mention the high worship of mammon), throughout the Earth!

      Sadly I must contend that there is NO HOPE for saving & repairing our wretched Nation…just as Jeremiah was reluctantly driven to admit was the case of Yeru-Salem in his day!

      Our ONLY hope now is to SEEK the LORD while HE may be found! Draw neigh unto God, and He will draw neigh unto you! Trust ONLY in HIM, and HIS WORD & PROMISES and “come out of her, my people! OBEY AND LIVE! disregard this plea at your peril….May God HELP us to obey!

       
      • Christian Gains

        January 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM

        One clarification: “Come out of her” does NOT mean, leave the Country, it means remove yourself from the evil & wicked & moraless, unethical & debautched ways of this people! ESTABLISH your life in Godliness and walk in the fear of God, setting a sample of humility, and conviction…

         
      • J.M.

        January 9, 2014 at 3:53 AM

        Christian Gains
        WHO can find fault with ANYTHING you have said??? Oh, Thank you for explaining your understanding of the two witnesses. Did you receive my question re “and you shall call his name Emanuel, or it may have been spelled Immanuel. I forget which translation I saw this passage but I think it is Matthew 1, verse 25. I received a message from Jetlag, earlier,& he said, the writers of the Holy Scriptures called him, Iesous. It looks like the first letter is an L, as in Larry. If so, I don’t know how to pronounce that name either.would it be pronounced, Lessus ?? If so, this is the first time I have ever heard anything like that. I do know a fella named, Les.

         
      • J.M.

        January 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM

        Christian Gains
        @ >One clarification: “Come out of her” does NOT mean, leave the Country, it means remove yourself from the evil & wicked & moraless, unethical & debautched ways of this people!

        I have been “advised” that Federal Reserve Notes are Babylonian System money, among other definitions,e.g..Military scrip. Well, whatever it is, it is used by the “system.” I have some of it (very little) & I use it because I do not know of any other way to have the 3 essentials we do need. ALL of us need those 3 essentials. STILL, by doing this,using the frns, & same being system money, how can we be “OUT” of the system? Back in the days of the Messiah coins were in use as a medium of exchange & it’s my understanding that those coins were not clad coins like we have today. What is filthy lucre, if frns are not? I have had a few commentators to say I made him/her laugh. I think some of my comments make Satan laugh too.

        @ > ESTABLISH your life in Godliness and walk in the fear of God, setting a sample of humility, and conviction…

        I’m TRYING.

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 9, 2014 at 12:00 PM

        J.M., being “OUT of the system” isn’t necessarily a physical matter, (tho it will impact your physical world to a degree). And, the degree of separation will depend upon your level of faith.

        Really, “dropping out” is more a matter of the heart, & minimizing the influences of the world that have motivated one, in the past. Such as greed, or envy, or selfishness, or anger, or lying, or ANY of the sinful interests of the flesh, that you’re aware displease the Lord.

        Money is nothing but a medium of exchange. Jesus never condemned the use of money, but he most assuredly condemned the “love of money”. “give unto Cesar that which is Cesar’s, & give unto God, that which is God’s”.

        In other words, who do you serve? Who is your master? Who do you worship? If one has committed their life to the Lord, and is seeking to follow and obey Him, to the best of their ability, then they will VERY likely, be separated from MUCH of the worldly influences and attitudes of those who have not.

        Now, to your question of Iesous [pronounced as a capitol “i” = (eye)sous, I believe] Actually, “Iesous” is a Hellenization (Greek) of the Hebrew name Yeshua or Yeshuah, and, is considered by some to have occultic roots, altho I don’t really hold that to be the case.

        Remember, during Yeshua’s life time, Greek was still a major commercial language. As a matter of fact, Luke wrote his Gospel in Greek.

        As to the value of the KJV, a Hebrew and Ancient Languages College Professor that I’ve studied under, points out that, (while there are, most assuredly, translation errors, (where the translators either interpreted rather than simply translating, OR, where they used poor choice of words), nonetheless, the KJV is the best, & most trustworthy English translation, generally speaking.

        For example: The word “Church” does not appear in the original Greek manuscript. It was used as an interpretation of the Greek word “ekklesia”, which means “The called out ones”. And, most of these errors are minor and do NOT change the spiritual or historic veracity of that translation. Unfortunately, many, (if not all), later translations have some VERY SIGNIFICANT errors, and deletions.

        There’s a very good & detailed Book explaining this matter, (by a lady named Gail Riplinger),Titled “NEW AGE VERSIONS”, that you might enjoy reading. Hope this helps! God Bless!

         
    • Christian Gains

      January 8, 2014 at 3:52 PM

      Hi again David…here’s a PERFECT confirmation of what we’ve been discussing:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/23/world/americas/buying-overseas-clothing-us-flouts-its-own-advice.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&

       
    • J.M.

      January 11, 2014 at 1:32 AM

      Hello again, David,
      @ the term is derived from the Greek word “Eklesia” (not sure of the spelling) which means “the called out ones”
      I was asked what does the word “church” mean? The called out ones are, still, people, right? We have Baptist Churches,Methodist Churches,Presbyterian Churches & On & On & On. AND within those Churches are splinter groups, e.g., Missionary Baptist,Freewill Baptist,Hardshell Baptist, & on & on & on. BUT they are made up/comprised/composed,etc. of people. This is why I responded that church,in & of itself means people. I do not think I answered incorrectly to the question as the question was asked.

       
      • dgbaugh

        January 11, 2014 at 9:21 AM

        Howdy J.M., yes, it refers to “the people” but the question is, which people? The answer, of course, is the covenant people of our Creator/Savior who choose to have our Creator/Savior as their Ruler (Supreme Sovereign Political Authority) and live in our respective lands of His promise and our birthright under His Government and His Law-system He has established for us in His Word. The “churches” you mention are mere social clubs of various denominations that exist within each of our respective nations which, for the most part, practice what has been termed “religion.” This religion is called “Judeochristianity,” which, of course, is an oxymoron. This “religion” IS NOT True Christianity which is the social, political, economic, and environmental system and moral code of our Creator/Savior He calls “The way, the truth, and the life” by which we are to live. Most of these social clubs are so caught up in superstitious nonsense and false doctrines of men, that they are wholly ineffective in overcoming the wickedness & evil being systematically perpetrated against us by our antichrist Edomite/Canaanite adversaries (Called “Satan” or the “Devil”), whom the members of these congregations blame for the evil wickedness instead of looking in the mirror and accepting full responsibility for it themselves. The term “Satan” means an “adversary” and the term “devil” means “slanderer” or “false accuser” (such as a prosecutor). “Satan” is not some “fallen angel” as is falsely taught; it is Esau/Edom and his descendants. The “Devil” is just some slanderer or false accuser, or other such evil doer. When you get rid of all the superstitious nonsense and religious hooliganism, the bible makes perfect sense. Of course, none of these “born again” or “saved” believers wants to accept the blame for the actual cause of the wickedness & evil that is flourishing in our land as our Creator/Savior permits pursuant to Deuteronomy, Chapter 28, because they can conveniently blame the Edomite perpetrators while fallaciously claiming to be righteous men and women.

         
  10. silverlemniscate

    January 6, 2014 at 3:19 PM

    Jesus would always do what is right and that includes a good whipping if needed ☺

     
    • David Baugh

      January 6, 2014 at 7:00 PM

      And yes, how does He do it? Through His faithful and obedient servants which is who we are so let us get it done!

       
      • J.M.

        January 8, 2014 at 3:41 PM

        To, David Baugh
        Re: Your message on January 8, 2014 at 1:56 PM
        Am sending this, or will try to, using the “Reply” button under your message on Jan. 6, at 7:00 PM.
        I understand dear one, believe me I understand.Been there & suffered through that also. Many times. I think enough people DO “see” what’s happening, but I can also understand WHY they don’t want to “rock the boat” because they see what happens to people like you & I & others,e.g. Gordon Kahl, Ruby Ridge, Waco, AND I am aware of MORE “human events” that just didn’t make the news, like Waco,etc.
        You know, David, there are some heinous people in jail, murderers, etc., who “look down on & detest” other criminals,& I think, rightly so, e.g. child molesters.That’s is the kind of company the jailers are apparently instructed to put me in with, for my “disorderly conduct, failure to cooperate, obstructing the lawful duties of an officer of the law charge per alleged No valid driver license, registration, etc charges of that nature. As you know, the inmates are always curious to know what you are charged with & do you think they believe you when you say, disorderly conduct? They know better than that because if this is true the jailers would not put you in with THEM. SO they know you are “hiding something” & they have a way of finding out what you are trying to hide. The jailer brings in the mail, & is asked what is he (< me) charged with? Jailer replies, something to do with child molestation but we don't know how many times as it's still under investigation.Need I say other, than I don't know how I survived. Beaten to a pulp & I could understand if it was true.but the jailers did come to my rescue before I was killed. They have many ways to get your mind right, as they say. They meaning the powers that be.

        Anyway, George Gordon lives in Isabela, Missouri. I have a lot of respect for him but I do not like his "Title 42 remedy" as it is only for Fed. U.S. Citizens, the 14th amendment type, & he has used it for himself. I am dumbfounded that of all people, he cannot see this even yet. BUT who is perfect? That is the ONLY thing about him, that I KNOW he is mistaken about.
        I try not to worry & be happy, but it's very hard to do. Understanding it all by & by doesn't help now & for many many years it has been for me, NOW. Time stands still, it seems.

         
      • J.M.

        February 1, 2014 at 8:45 PM

        Shalom David,
        There is another poster, Harry Skip Robinson,who is knowledgeable, level headed, patient, kind hearted,etc. I think it’s the Immigration thread or a thread about tax, he is commenting on. I would sure appreciate you & he getting together & exchanging comments. Also, there is, dejure, who “was” what I call an insider, but he is no longer an insider. He is a good man, David. With dejure’s inside knowledge, being once a lawyer, I honestly think if you & the others get together, we might get a “Bingo.” Of course, we also have Alfred, as if that needed to be said. This message is being sent with your message in mind, > And yes, how does He do it? Through His faithful and obedient servants which is who we are so let us get it done! I’ll be yauls gopher. Yes, I want to be in on the action too, so don’t forget me.

         
  11. David Baugh

    January 6, 2014 at 7:45 PM

    Supplemental: When you look up the terms “angel” and “messenger” as set forth in Matthew 13:37-43, in your Strong’s Concordance, you will find that the two terms are derived from the same Greek word. My conclusion is, that there are “spiritual beings” as well as human beings who do our Creator/Savior’s work, which is to see to it His Will/Law is done in our respective lands as aforesaid. It has been said, and I believe accurately, if our Creator/Savior be with you, who can be against you? In my own experience, simply saying no astounds the woefully ignorant predatory and plundering parasites. I have been in court and they were visibly fearful when I declared in the name of Jesus Christ for them to cease and desist their evil ways! Most cops cannot handle a knowledgeable Christian American who knows how to deal with them. It conflicts with their programming! They are not programmed for that; they are programmed to believe their presence in society is essential to “serve & protect you” from yourself because they assume your “god” is the same as their “god” from which they derive their filthy parasitic, plundering existence at the expense of those upon whom they prey. My premise has always been we need to educate these predatory parasites to the fact they are nothing but pawns and when they destroy my liberty & freedom, they are doing it to themselves and their families and friends. Some have been awakened through my humble efforts as such a messenger! The source of law in any society is either Almighty God, the Creator/Savior, or it is the alternative which we were warned about in I Samuel, Chapter 8 and we see the results in Romans, Chapter 1 which accurately portrays America today. So let us all be humble “messengers” as best we can!

     
    • J.M.

      January 6, 2014 at 10:10 PM

      @ >It conflicts with their programming!
      It sho-nuff due. I have got to meet you !!

       
  12. Christian Gains

    January 7, 2014 at 4:28 AM

    David Baugh, thank you. But! Let me point out a bit of experience…When I’ve dealt with the “servants of the enemy”, I’ve learned some important lessons.

    #1] HAVE YOU actually dealt with these cretins? If not, then judge not….

    #2] Are you ACTUALLY aware of the training that the “LEO’s” receive, and the “WHY-FORES” that they treat you as they might?

    #3] Is it GENUINELY your “CALLING” to “educate the ignorant”, (but Social Authority –LEO), as to the Spiritual reality of Gen 6:1 – 5 & 8 thru 13? Just some thoughts…..

     
    • Christian Gains

      January 7, 2014 at 4:41 AM

      One more thought…The reason I ask these “Q”s, is because I came, (through years of experience), to realize that, the LEO’s, are, (for the main), just ignorant, fleshly, ignoramuses. (No disrespect intended).

      They’ve just not received the proper training to deal with SPIRITUAL realities…(Matt.16:18 – 19)…And, (if we HAVE); then we owe them some respect & understanding.

      Take care brethren….Discernment will be an EXTREMELY significant capability in the future….PRACTICE DISCERNMENT REGULARLY!.

       
      • J.M.

        January 7, 2014 at 5:49 AM

        Dear Christian Gains
        Re: your message to David Baugh.

        I am thinking of 1 Corinthians 12, that speaks of different “gifts” for different people,e.g.,the gift of healing,& other gifts.& of which I believe David has been blessed with one David said,”I have been in court and they were visibly fearful when I declared in the name of Jesus Christ for them to cease and desist their evil ways!”
        I have to believe him. Now the point I am trying to make is this. Someone else could say the same thing David did, like me, & get a rude awakening “kickback.” I say this because I am also aware of the scripture where this certain man (forget his name,think it was Simon) said, (attempting to cast out demons) In the name of Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to depart…. The demons answered back & said, Paul we know & Jesus we know but who are you? Look what happened next, to him. Also, I think David Baugh has a LOT of front line battle zone experience. Somehow, I just “know it.”

         
      • J.M.

        January 9, 2014 at 6:15 PM

        Christian Gains, the LEO’s, are, (for the main), just ignorant, fleshly, ignoramuses. (No disrespect intended).
        I agree but when they are firing at an automobile with a lot of little children in it and they KNOW this, that is not ignurnt, I recently saw a video where this certain LEO was smashing the guest side, excuse me. passenger side window out & the frightened mother pulled away out of fear. Two more LEO’s started shooting at the automobile,excuse me, motor vehicle. This is not ignurnt.The mother was charged with endangering children’s lives.

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 9, 2014 at 10:46 PM

        Yep! Saw the same Video and had the same reaction…STUPID!!!!

        I’m sorry to have to say this, (I was raised to respect & even be a bit fearful of LEO’s because they were upholding the law, so, if they stopped you, you’re probably guilty of an infraction). {Of course, experience and age has taught better discretion & discernment}, but, I STILL give them a bit of slack…unless, of course, they pull a Dip S*%it routine like that situation!?!?! HELLO!!!??? Is ANYone home in their brain???

        Chase her..YES! CAREFULLY force her over…YES! Cuff her for fleeing…YES! BUT! SHOOTING at her child filled vehicle!?! STUPID!!! SERIOUSLY Barnie Fifeing! Andy would DEFINITELY have taken his bullet away!

         
      • J.M.

        January 11, 2014 at 2:04 AM

        @Yep! Saw the same Video and had the same reaction…STUPID!!!!

        Quit saying good & nice things about these servants of the law. They are only doing their job.

        Frightened people do foolish things. How well I know. Who knows what was going on in the Mother’s mind? We can only speculate. But, for whatever reason she pulled away was no excuse for firing bullets at the car. WHEN the car was sitting STILL the cop was smashing out the window. I have wondered if any glass went into in of the children’s eyes??? ” Human events” like that really get my dandruff up. One time one of the servants of the law jerked me out of my “automobile” & threw me up beside it & with such force it made the right side of my entire body PURPLE. Stopped for improper license plate, which led into other so called law breaking violations, ALL TRAFFIC. Taken directly to jail & about 3 days later I began to get a terrible toothache & even to the extent my face swelled up like a balloon I broke down & asked for relief. I was told,”you ain’t got no toothache It’s all in your head. THANK YOU for continuing to correspond with me. I appreciate it more than I know how to explain.

         
      • J.M.

        January 11, 2014 at 6:36 PM

        @ Christian Gains,@ HELLO!!!??? Is ANYone home in their brain???
        Tragic comedy. I’m ashamed of myself, at least to some degree, for laughing, but I did & do every time I read it. I think part of the laughter, however, is because I see that somebody sees something the same way I do,which is extremely rare, & I don’t feel, as I told Jetlag, like a bird with no wings in a tree with no leaves & M as in Mary, T as in Tom

         
    • J.M.

      January 7, 2014 at 6:15 AM

      P.S.@ > Somehow, I just “know it.” It takes one to know one.

       
      • Christian Gains

        January 7, 2014 at 3:28 PM

        Hi again J.M. I’ve copy/pasted (below) our posts & exchanges, because there seems to be a bit of confusion, and my latest post ( concerning David, his gift, and “gifts in general) went under Cody’s comments, way up towards the top of this page. Also, I intend to copy/past my newest replay [“Gifts] below these posts:

        J.M.
        January 7, 2014 at 6:54 AM
        To > Christian Gains,
        Re: > January 7, 2014 at 3:39 AM
        J.M., Let’s look at that word “CHURCHES”…………………”

        First of all,Thanks for trying to help me. We are not robots & we are not going to understand everything alike, sad to say. Re: CHURCHES. I see the words, “Church of God,Churches of God (those words) MANY times, at least in the New Testament. Then I am told IT IS NOT the New Testament it’s the Hew Covenant. I try not to strain at gnats & swallow camels. Look, IF we were all born in Egypt, educated there, their way, we would think like Egyptians.I’m not certain as to what you are trying to explain. Take into consideration that I do not have much “formal education” as is obvious. It is also obvious you do have. Please use the k.i.s.s. method with me.. I think if you will cut & paste what I said, that prompted you to send me a message, I may be able to know what you are trying to tell me. As far as CHURCHES go, or what that word means, I believe it means People/Peoples. I see that you write & sometimes use the name, Jesus, but this time you use the name Yeshuah. Are both correct? If not ,which one is? What about Yahshua? If you say, NO, it’s Yeshuah, you know there will be others who will disagree. Just cut & paste what I said, & then I may be able to respond to you in a sensible way. Maybe I put a period where there should be a question mark. Maybe I put a coma, in the wrong place. I have done this before, & not just once.

        Don’t give up on me, just yet anyway.

        ———————————————————————————————————————–

        Christian Gains
        January 7, 2014 at 4:05 AM
        J.M. I refer you to my post/reply to (after “Yartap” and ADASK’S post below…you’ll find my last post).

        The “EKKLESA” (“called out ones”), is the “BODY OF CHRIST”….BUT!…The “Organized, Religious System” is NOT!

        It equates to the Pharisees of Yeshuahs’ day — (self-righteous, “holier than thou”, pious control freaks)….”Christ’s authority & body is (NOT) the “church”…it is the STATEMENTS OF, GOD THE FATHER, and, GOD THE SON….(Isa. 41:12 – 44:28; and Jn.1:1 – 14). BEWARE the “Organized Religious System”!!!! It is equivalent to the Pharisees of Matt.23, !!!

        Reply

        J.M.
        January 7, 2014 at 7:37 AM
        @ > J.M. I refer you to my post/reply to (after “Yartap” and ADASK’S post below
        There is not any “Yartap” and ADASK’S post below. Something is wrong. There IS a “Yartap” and ADASK’S post ABOVE. This is on my end of the line. Also, I do not understand why LATELY when I submit a message & I see “posting comment,only part of it goes through & even then, it is not all as I wrote it. I wrote,End of message & my comment,previously & these words did not go through. My message did, but the words, “End of message & my comment” < just those words, did not The message was from Christianity.com (a cut & paste from me,sent by me) So it posted as tho my comment was a part of what Christianity.com said. Not a good thing. However, this rarely happens.
        —————————– NEWEST POST on "gifts" BELOW ————————————————-

        Christian Gains
        January 7, 2014 at 3:12 PM
        Hi JM.. (BTW, this window displays the statement: “Leave a reply to CODY” — I’m replying to J.M., don’t know who Cody is. Just to clarify). [I found Cody's statement — not what I'm replying to here]

        I concur that each of the saved, born again brethren have gifts (both available, or, already given), by the Lord’s Spirits’ choice…(I Cor. 12). Yes. And, those gifts are powerful.

        If David has that sort of authoritative power, more power to him. God Bless him. But, I must point out that some gifts are not for all, and therefore, the “gifted” must take care not to encourage people to “try this at home” so to speak, UNLESS they (those other people), KNOW they also have such authority. It’s certainly offered clearly in several verses (Matt.16:19; Lk.10:19; Jn.14:12; etc.), but, in the use of them, we must be “wise as serpents, and harmless as doves”.

        Now, this opens up a broader perspective on “gifts”. Especially in the days.

        Is anyone here familiar with the “back story” [so to speak], of Gen.6:1 – 5 & 8 – 13, in relationship to Jesus’s declaration: “But as the days of Noe’ were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be”;[Matt.24:37], and His Matt.16:19 statement of a gift He’s given us? What would link His Matt.16:19 promise, to His Matt.24:37 statement?

        I’d enjoy hearing your thoughts J.M, (or, ANYONE who wishes to follow up this idea)…

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 7, 2014 at 7:46 PM

        Hi again J.M.

        Well, in response to your P.S.@>Somehow I just “know it”, statement, I know JUST what you mean…sometimes it’s just “a gut feeling”…and I think that you’re correct, I’m pretty sure he’s BTDT…Been There, Done That” is Spiritual Warfare.

        Also, (below), in the Jan.7,2014 at 3:39 post, — “Let’s look at that word “CHURCHES”… I want to apologize if I got too complicated, or assumed incorrectly that you’re pretty well educated in the WORD…(formal education isn’t NEARLY as important)…You certainly seem well founded.

        Next, the “seven sons of sceva” [Acts 19:14] are the occasion you’re referring to, and they were non-born-again Jews, trying to use (what they percieved as) Paul’s “formula” for casting out demons.

        Next, I’m wondering, do you have a Concordance? A Young’s or Strong’s Concordance?

        Lastly: Jesus is the English version of a Hellenized {Greek} version of Yeshuah, the Messiah’s Hebrew name. (Unfortunately, I’m not a good linguist, so can’t remember just what the Greek word was)…As I remember, it was a Roman Catholic transliteration, (meaning, they took a Hebrew word that could be transferred into Greek.

        But, the answer to your question is “Yes”! It is just the same as Jose’ in Spanish is equivalent to Joe in English. The word Jesus did not appear in New testament manuscripts until English began to flourish as an International / commercial Language, and Bibles were translated into English. Hope this is helpful! Have you read my last posts? (dealing with “GIFTS”?) It’s just below this post I think..hope….

         
      • David Baugh

        January 8, 2014 at 1:56 PM

        Yes, my friend, I was on the “front line” in this spiritual warfare for our sacred Liberty & freedom. I am living proof that the “STATE” is organized terrorism in action operating in the same manner as a protection racket of legalized plunder & extortion. Simply put, if you pay for the phony “protection,” via numerous regulatory revenue schemes of taxation, you will not be molested by the predatory government armed thugs and dragged into “cash register,” kangaroo courts. The quisling, pettifogger, shyster lawyers, through their private criminal syndicate known as the “Bar Association” have totally and completely infiltrated and corrupted the justice system in collaboration and collusion with lying, thieving politicians and their appointed bureaucrats. Make no mistake about it! These political usurpers, liars, traitors and thieves are ruthless and care nothing about true justice or anyone’s so-called “rights” supposedly secured from such government usurpation by the constitutions! All they care about is perpetration and perpetuation of their wicked and evil protection racket of legalized plunder & extortion. Your life, your family, and your property are allowed to exist only so long as you submit to the socialist police state of fascist feudalism ruled by absolute despotism! If you dare to challenge their usurped power & authority, even if done in an entirely peaceful, harmless manner as I did, you will either be tossed into their prison system (as I was) or murdered. Imagine being sentenced to serve 9 years (2 years, 3 years, and 4 years consecutively) in prison for simply failing and refusing to renew your “Valid Expired” driver’s license as a form of such peaceful, harmless political protest! Yes, it happened to me even though I was 100% correct in the law of the matter, but the crooked shyster judge (6th one in the case which took them 3 and a half years to bring to trial in a sham proceeding) totally ignored the law and in collusion & conspiracy with the shyster prosecutor made up their own law and rules in order to prevail against me. Why? I was never any threat or danger to society and could have had a license for the asking. The answer is because I posed a real threat or danger to the criminal syndicalism (“organized terrorism”) being practiced by the STATE against my fellow Missourians by openly and notoriously exposing it for all to see! Think about how much revenue is extorted by these crooks! Think about the usurped power & control they would lose if enough folks became aware of the fraud and scam and ceased participation! Think about the parasitic job security of all the predatory armed thugs and all the useless, nonproductive paper shufflers and keyboard punchers! Damn, they would be forced to go out and seek honest, productive work! As it turned out, I flatly refused to play their game even when tossed in their prison system. I refused to accept their offer of probation and refused to sign their subsequent parole agreement and guess what? The filthy scum released me anyway! The first thing I did was go and get a driver’s license thereby proving for all to see that it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with so-called “public safety & security,” but is as aforesaid, a gigantic protection racket of legalized plunder & extortion! I am living proof that Missouri government is a socialist police state of fascist feudalism, ruled by absolute despotism! Now, because the lunatics in the Missouri legislature made a 3rd or more “offense” of driving w/o a valid license a class-D felony “crime,” I am a convicted “felon,” which means I cannot possess a firearm even though I’ve been a Life Member of the NRA for nearly 50 years! What is a “felon?” My friends a “felon” is a formerly disobedient “feudal serf” or “vassal” voter whose actions displeased his “lord & master.” Check it out in Black’s Law Dictionary! Here is the bottom line in regard to the topic of this discussion: In America today, if you call yourself a “Christian American” and you are not being persecuted by these political usurpers, liars, traitors and thieves for sufficiently educating yourself and then standing up and boldly declaring our Creator/Savior as our One and Only Ruler, you are not being a true Christian American.

         
  13. Christian Gains

    January 7, 2014 at 7:49 PM

    OOPS! I’M WRONG…It’s just above these last two (this, and the 7:46PM “Hi again J.M.” post)

     
  14. donmako

    January 7, 2014 at 9:58 PM

    Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. To finish up jims q. Gen. Chap 6 matt 24. I believe yer hinting at the nephilem. Pls forgive all miss spellings and poor grammar. But yeah all flesh had become corrupted. Thats to say interbreeding with fallen angels. And heck… gmo’s and the like. I mean aliens arent what they seem to be. They are demonic and have been steering our planet down the drain for a hot minute. Youtube chuck missler,

     
    • J.M.

      January 7, 2014 at 10:21 PM

      Hi there, donmako,
      Since there is “nothing new under the sun,” I believe the Giants were a result of cloning experiments like is happening today. Will not say anymore at this time why I believe this because I am having a problem with getting ALL of my message/comment posted on this thread.

       
      • donmako

        January 8, 2014 at 10:56 AM

        I hear you brother. Im writing all posts on my phone as its the only internet i have atm…there is definatly a satans seed as our Lord has told us. That also explains why Joshua was told to basically kill em all let god sort em out durning the taking of the promised land. Not to even make treaties with those certain nations. Remember the more literal you take Gods word the more sense it makes. And for the 1/3 of angels on the devils side they still occupy relms in heaven. Because the powers of heaven havnt been shaken yet. And the stars have not fallen yet. Though you could argue that some have here recently… 1947 roswell and the like. Technology is very scary. God bless

         
  15. donmako

    January 7, 2014 at 10:20 PM

    Pls check these links out. It helps give the whole picture and scope of things.
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=75Dhs52UjPA chucks vid
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HXUqfNQ3J0o great vid about signs
    http://ecclesia.org/truth/assembly.html this is what its all about. Thanks to all in Christ Jesus. God bless

     
    • J.M.

      January 9, 2014 at 12:19 AM

      donmako,
      My thanks to you also. Watched & listened to the first two videos. One thing for sure. those disembodied spirits could not have been the ones to impregnate the daughters of men because they did not have the body parts required to do the job. Right? Actually, I still think those “Sons of God” were composed of flesh & blood. Who does God say he is upset with? My spirit shall not always strive with,who? I do think there was an intermarriage occurrence that God did not approve of. Also, the scriptures say angels do not marry. I believe this applies to “fallen angels” too. The Bible is very clear, to me, about some things,e.g., do not mix seed, etc. I do not think God ordains interracial marriage. Anyway, I hope we can stay friends. even tho we may understand some things differently. I care for you & the scriptures say the greatest thing of all is love, which to me is an outgoing concern for others. I try hard to have that for everyone even to my own hurt & I have been hurt by many others for having this outgoing concern for them.Seems to me ALL the Disciples/Apostles,would understand what I am trying to say. Look what happened to them. ALL of them with the exception of, John. Thanks again. Now, I am going to your third link after I post this.

       
      • J.M.

        January 9, 2014 at 12:38 AM

        I Thank you heavenly Father in the name of your Son, The King of Kings for allowing ALL of my message to donamako to go through . I do not know the correct way to pronounce or spell your Son’s name. Most people say Jesus. however most people are generally wrong. Anyway, you know who I mean, and I hope this is not considered a public prayer, as only two or three more, IF that many, will read it.

         
      • Jetlag

        January 9, 2014 at 12:55 AM

        @JM “Most people say Jesus. however most people are generally wrong.”

        On the other hand, the inspired authors of the Bible were not wrong about anything in the scripture they left us. And these authors, in that scripture, call him Iesous.

         
    • J.M.

      January 9, 2014 at 12:43 AM

      whoops, I meant donmako. But the Good Lord just informed me that he knew who I meant for both beings, donmako AND The Son of God.

       
  16. Christian Gains

    January 8, 2014 at 3:18 PM

    THANKS donmako! Those links will surely inspire, (& maybe even teach some folks here), the deeper realities that they’re facing. Good for you! God Bless you brother!

     
  17. J.M.

    January 9, 2014 at 1:38 AM

    Well HELLO there,Jetlag,
    @ >On the other hand, the inspired authors of the Bible were not wrong about anything in the scripture they left us. And these authors, in that scripture, call him Iesous.

    Apparently, you have at least a copy of the “original inspired scriptures.” I have not been given that wonderful blessing. I only have access to UNINSPIRED TRANSLATIONS of the original inspired scriptures. How do you pronounce, Iesous. < Is the first letter,L as in Larry?
    Do you agree that if the King James version was good enough for Iesous and the disciples it is good enough for you? Be careful how you answer this last question, if you do, as you are another cherry picker of questions you will answer. On the other hand, maybe some of the questions were just too ripe to pick to answer.

     
    • Jetlag

      January 9, 2014 at 2:24 PM

      @JM

      The word translated “Jesus” is G2424 in Strong’s. It was pronounced something close to “ee-ay-sooce”. Doing a web search on that index number is a good way to learn details like spelling.

      As to “come out of her”, this was an admonition to flee Babylon – which Revelation 11:8 identifies as the “city” where “our Lord was crucified“, i.e. Jerusalem – before its destruction by the Roman legions in 70 AD. This was not meant as an excuse for Christians in the 21st century to cop-out of responsibility to their country and yield the field, and their children’s future, to an international crime syndicate.

      Luke 21:20-24 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

      Revelation 18:1-4 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

       
      • J.M.

        January 10, 2014 at 2:46 AM

        @ Jetlag, As to “come out of her”, this was an admonition to flee Babylon – which Revelation 11:8 identifies as the “city” where “our Lord was crucified“, i.e. Jerusalem

        Thank you ! Wow!! Based on what you believe & use, from the Scriptures I AM OUT of Babylon. What a relief !!! And here for years I have racked my brain on how to obey the scripture that says, Come out of her. I feel like kicking myself for all that wasted time & energy for nothing I am several thousand miles out of Babylon too, & actually never was in Babylon, because I have never been to Jerusalem & what makes it worse, I have yearned to WANT to go to Jerusalem, a place we are told to come out of, I wanted to go into.Oh my. You have opened my eyes to see that I am more blind than I thought I was. I am at a loss for words to express my heartfelt thanks. Now for the first time in years I know I will get a good night’s sleep.

         
  18. Christian Gains

    January 9, 2014 at 3:11 PM

    The problem with that interpretation jetlag, is that “The Revelation” was not even given until 96+- AD…20+- years AFTER Yeru-Salem was utterly destroyed. And, as far as “…an excuse…to cop out…”, I WHOLE HEARTEDLY agree that responsibility to one’s Country is HIGH on the list of “TO DO”s, as long as “one’s Country” is still Godly & God led…but…(since Yeshua / Jesus is now OUR Sovereign), we have an even higher alligance to maintain, far ABOVE mere mortal flesh.

    Actually, (since this Nation, as the majority of the people, has rebelled, and [not only forsaken, but] cast aside the sovereign, and, as well, become guilty of “shedding innocent blood” (thereby willingly violating both the 1st, 2nd, & 6th Commandments — ALL THROUGH THE VOTE, I might add), those of us who have NOT agreed, encouraged, or participated in, nor desired to, in these vile and Godless acts, should consider QUITE soberly, what our responsibilities are, in relationship to this Nation…Jeremiah had to, Isaiah had to, and Jesus & HIS disciples had to, and ALL of them rejected the Leadership of their Nation…for obedience to their Sovereign!

    I just re-read your other statements and realized that you’re inferring that BOTH the Lk. 21-24 discourse, as well as the Rev.18 statements are done and over…equating the encompassing of Yeru-Salem with the destruction of “Babylon the Whore”…? yes? If so, I can not disagree more.

    Yreu-Salem was ALREADY UTTERLY DESTROY & SALTED by the time Yohanan (John) received the REVELATION on Patmos…much less distributed it to the 7 “ekklesias”.

    I DO agree that the LK.21 reference IS referring to the destruction of Yerusalem though.

    But the Revelation 18 event sequences are FAR removed from the Lk.21:20 – 24 events.

    Actually, here’s what HAlleys Bible Handbook has to say concerning the dating of the receiving of the Revelation: (pages 683 – 684)

    DATE: “John had been bannished to the island of Patmos (1:9). This, according to Apostalic Tradition, was in the Persecution of Domitian, about A.D.95 The next year, John was released, and permitted to return to Ephesus. The use of the past tense “was in Patmos” seems to indicate that, while he saw the Visions in Patmos, it was after his release, and return to Ephesus, that he wrote the book about 96 A.D.”

    I Don’t wish to debate this matter though, as I’ve studied the Prophecies that Lk. 21:20 – 24 are related to, as well as the Prophecies that the Revelation is relating to, and I’ve seen clearly that The Revelation has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING what-so-ever to do with the destruction of Yeru-Salem, but rather, has MUCH to do with a much later “Babylon the Whore” whose rise we MIGHT be experiencing in these present days…and I’m NOT referring to the NWO.

     
  19. Jetlag

    January 9, 2014 at 4:12 PM

    @Christian Gains “The problem with that interpretation jetlag, is that “The Revelation” was not even given until 96+- AD…20+- years AFTER Yeru-Salem was utterly destroyed.”

    Actually, the temple was still standing at the time the Revelation was given, which dates the book to before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Proof:

    Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

    @Christian Gains “But the Revelation 18 event sequences are FAR removed from the Lk.21:20 – 24 events.”

    Again, scripture disagrees with you. The book of Revelation itself tells us, at its beginning and its end, when the events described were to take place:

    Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    Revelation 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

    Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

    @Christian Gains “I Don’t wish to debate this matter though…”

    Few do.

     
    • J.M.

      January 9, 2014 at 5:48 PM

      Jetlag,
      First, I thank you for making clear whose question you are answering &/or responding to,e.g., @Christian Gains. ( Here,you put what you are responding to) Thanks. I am going to try doing the same thing.
      This helps a dunce like me to know WHO your response is directed to & you also make clear what statement or question you are responding to. I’m sincere & thanks again.

      @Jetlag,things which must shortly come to pass;the time is at hand.

      Since another scripture says (my paraphrase) Brethren,remember, a day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us,& a thousand years as a day. This means, to me, a thousand years,as we know it would have to pass & to “God” it will only be like 24 hours is to us. Otherwise, what is the purpose of that scripture? So, when the scripture says, things which must shortly come to pass & the time is at hand, is anybody’s guess as to WHEN EXACTLY. Things which must shortly come to pass, means,to me, sometime in the not too distance future. Maybe to God, it’s within a couple of days. IF so, then it will be within a couple thousand years, to us. Tell you what tho. I wonder what the reaction of the people would be in any so called christian church if for the first time they heard their preacher say in ending a prayer,> we ask all these things in the name of “ee-ay-sooce.” I have a feeling the people would be, well, at best, puzzled but more than likely, stunned. I’m not saying that “ee-ay-sooce is the wrong or right way to pronounce the name of the Messiah. I don’t know. But I do know that if I addressed you as,e.g., jutfrag or jitsquag, it is degrading & insulting. I would rather not know how to pronounce the name of the Messiah than to use a possible degrading, insulting name. Once again,thanks again & please keep me in, your prayers.

       
      • Jetlag

        January 9, 2014 at 6:40 PM

        @JM

        Revelation was written to an audience for whom “shortly come to pass” and “at hand” meant the near future, not thousands of years in the future. Plus, they already had prophesy from the gospels predicting a near-future destruction of Jerusalem. The book of Revelation and the gospels are consistent with each other.

        @JM “we ask all these things in the name of “ee-ay-sooce.” I have a feeling the people would be, well, at best, puzzled but more than likely, stunned.”

        I don’t understand this feeling of yours. I don’t find anything puzzling or stunning about the name Iesous. It was a common enough name in Hellenized first century Judea.

        And I said it was pronounced “something close to” ee-ay-sooce for a reason. This pronunciation may not be precisely correct.

         
      • Yartap

        January 9, 2014 at 8:38 PM

        Brother Jim, Greetings,

        I agree with you. A day to the Lord can be like a year, a hundred years or thousand years to us.

        With that said, my reading and understand brings me to the realization that the scriptures are clear about one thing: BE PREPARED FOR CHRIST’S RETURN!!! because no man knows the time, not even the angels. How are we to prepare? For the lukewarm believer and non-believer, the time is NOW!, to earnestly receive and seek God and Christ in your heart and soul by faith. Not by fact, but by faith. For by faith is our truest and strongest test for God to know of our acceptance of Him and love for Him.

        We do not wish to wait for our conversion or repentance as a prodical son or daughter, thinking: that we can live in sin and lust right up to the end of our earthly body. No – we must practice our faith to strengthen it; and we must learn and accept the ways and words of God to be approved.

        Living in sin is not the “good life,” far from it. Sin is only harmful to us and to those around the sinner. Self-gratification of/by/with sinful pleasures never brings satisfaction, but rather, an emptiness, which must always be filled. Thus, the renewal of/for/with more sin to satisfy the need for fulfillment, which never comes. Evil begets more evil, it does not beget good.

        The truly good life is living without sin to harm us. Good thoughts and good deeds remove the horrors and nightmares one will suffer while living in sin. But they are not enough, one must know that he has a Father, who loves him. A Father, who will give protection and mercy; and never forsake nor abandon His child. A Father, who will give to His child a good name and inheritance. And the Father needs to know His child’s love for Him and acceptance of Him.

        Our spirt’s gratification through God and Christ will bring satisfaction and fulfillment for our cups to runth over. Which is a true fulfillment of our needs with abundance and grace.

        We know that God may blind us to our lust; and practicing lust and sin only makes us better at lust and sin; so we are at risk to not return. The lukewarm may continue to pray to God for sinful things, not knowing of what they do through self-justification and blindness.

        The question of WHEN is Christ’s return is of no concern to us. But rather, the better questions are: when will your death come?, when will you accept God and Christ?, do you know the time of your death?, are you ready?, are you prepared?, does any man know the time of your death?, just how much time do you have to accept God and Christ?, when does later come?, does later ever come?, which is wise: to seek and accept God and Christ – NOW! or accept Them later?

        The message is not when Christ will fulfill his return, but rather, will we be filled before our time?

        Blessing, Yartap.

         
    • J.M.

      January 9, 2014 at 9:03 PM

      @Jetlag “Revelation was written to an audience for whom “shortly come to pass” and “at hand” meant the near future, not thousands of years in the future.

      After the writing of/in Revelation,how long was it before this “audience” was able to see & read this Book of Revelation? If I write a letter to you, I can see it NOW. But it’s gonna take a while before you can see & read what I wrote to you, considering the time it takes to get to you, after I mail it. Also, IF as you say, Revelation was written to an audience for whom “shortly come to pass” and “at hand” meant the near future, not thousands of years in the future, how does anything it says (Book of Revelation) apply to us today, other than a historically interesting Book? I see duality everywhere throughout the entire Bible. But, it seems to me you are saying that which is written in Revelation only applied to People of yesteryear, approximately two thousand years ago & is only relevant to people today as a a history lesson, or a more clear way to say it is, The Book of Revelation has been fulfilled. If so, I can’t buy that., as I believe at least some of it is yet to happen, take place,etc. But, I am not saying you are wrong. I very well may be wrong. This is another reason we have so many different conflicting churches today. I am just like everybody else in that I would like to fellowship with those of like mind. AND, IF I ever find that group, I will never say, Hey,I’m in & with the one & only true church. Every church group believes they are the only true church. If you are aware of any group of people that believes a day begins, & without straining at gnats, when the sun is beginning to peep over the horizon, that believes the Holy Days as written in the “Old Testament” are still to be observed, that believes the man most christians call Jesus, IS the messiah,PLEASE tell me. I will be eternally grateful to you. Shalom.

       
      • Jetlag

        January 9, 2014 at 9:52 PM

        @J.M.

        History has a great deal to tell us about the present, just ask George Orwell. So the book of Revelation being, in significant part, a history lesson does not diminish its importance. Everything in the Bible is important.

        Looked at another way, the book of Revelation must be relevant in our time or the Orwellian NWO would not sponsor so many false teachers and charlatan gurus to lie about what it really says. The reason for these lies could have to do with Babylon, which the following, among other examples, proves was Jerusalem:

        Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

        Revelation 18:21-24 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

        @J.M. “I believe at least some of it is yet to happen, take place, etc.”

        I agree. Let us not fall prey to one of the favorite ploys of rhetoric used by the NWO liars: the false dichotomy.

        While the destruction of Babylon took place in 70 AD, not all events in Revelation have happened already. We’re not limited to an all-past and all-future pair of choices.

        @J.M. “Every church group believes they are the only true church.”

        And almost no church group teaches God’s word without adding to scripture from the doctrines of men.

         
    • Christian Gains

      January 9, 2014 at 10:15 PM

      Well JETLAG, we’ll just have to agree to disagree, as I’ve presented the STRONGEST evidence on Earth…the testimonies of the “first Century disciples” (aka “APOSTOLIC TRADITION”)…Domitian and his persecution of the rising threat of Christian ekklesias throughout Asia Minor, (in the mid 90’s A.D.), is THOROUGHLY recorded (and that record is held within the National Library of Congress — which I’ve read), and I also gave you John Halley’s HIGHLY RESPECTED “Bible Handbook” verification of the HISTORICALLY SUPPORTED time of Yohanan’s captivity & release…and the Ephesus transmission of the VISIONS of THE REVELATION…in 95 – 96 A.D.

      Sorry to burst your doctrinal bubble, but DOCUMENTED HISTORY does not support you…But! God Bless you Brother…This is all the response I’ll give on this matter. No debate further, because, “A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”. You’ve CLEARLY determined that your view is the only correct one…so…we’ll leave it as a disagreement. Take care and stay obedient…

       
      • J.M.

        January 27, 2014 at 8:03 PM

        Oh my, or as Timmy would say, oh dear me.
        We are all agreeing to be disagreeable. Agreed ???

         
    • J.M.

      January 11, 2014 at 9:14 AM

      @ Jetlag, So the book of Revelation being, in significant part, a history lesson does not diminish its importance.
      Show me where I said it did diminish it’s importance. Your very statement itself says that you think Revelation,in significant part, IS a history lesson.Saying the SAME thing in a different way, you, Jetlag, are saying that the significant part of the Book of Revelation today,IS a history lesson. I see things written in that book that HAVE NOT transpired YET. Do you want some “for instances???”

       
  20. Yartap

    January 9, 2014 at 11:17 PM

    Christian Gains, Greetings,

    If I may, give my thoughts on your scriptures relation questions…..

    As referenced in Matthew 24:37, one could literally accept that the “days” of Noah to mean his entire life on earth. But, it is restricted to the time of the great flood in Genesis 6, because the Matthew 24:37 verse speaks to the “coming” of Christ. Thus, we limit the times to the great flood and Christ’s return.

    I believe that the relationship of Genesis 6 and Matthew 24:37 is that a falling away of man from God happens in both times. Next, I have not found any reference that Noah warned the people, just like there is not a time established for Christ’s return (“no man knows”). In other words, both events will be a great and fearful surprise to most people.

    As far as the “link” between Matthew 24:37 and Matthew 16:19, I understand the link to be only as chronologically and authoritarian.

    In the chronological sense, in Matthew 16:18, Christ establishes his church; and in verse 19, he “give(s)” authority to the ministers of the Gospel or Word of God to rule while Christ is returned to heaven. But, upon Christ’s return or coming, he will resume authority from his church.

    In the authoritarian sense, I offer the side notes from the Geneva Bible which speaks to this authority for Matthew 16:19 which says,….

    Matthew 16:19, Geneva Bible:
    [d] And I will give unto thee the [e]keys of the Kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt [f]bind upon earth, shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven.

    Side Note “d”: “The authority of the church is from God.”

    Side Note “e”: “A metaphor taken of stewards which carry the keys: and here is set forth the power of the ministers of the word, as Isa. 22:22, and that power is common to all ministers, as Matt. 18:18, and therefore the ministers of the Gospel may rightly be called the key of the kingdom of heaven.”

    Side Note “f”: “They are bound whose sins are retained, heaven is shut against them, because they received not Christ by faith: on the other side, how happy are they, to whom heaven is open, which embrace Christ, and are delivered by him, and become fellow heirs with him.”

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • donmako

      January 10, 2014 at 12:46 AM

      Greetings Yartap, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
      Id like to rebut that they didnt know when the flood was comming… please enjoy this awsome vid from chuck missler. This gave me goosebumps the first time i seen it. Praise the Lord in all his glory….
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J1zZAkzLPEo

       
      • Yartap

        January 10, 2014 at 6:42 AM

        Joyous Greetings, donmako,

        Thank you for your rebuttal. I have fallen victim to forgetting the Book of Enoch. Yes – the floods were foretold in prophecy by Enoch. I thank God for your correction of my heart and mind. Yes – you are right, Chuck’s insight about Methuseiah’s name and death was very revealing. WOW!

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
    • J.M.

      January 10, 2014 at 10:18 AM

      @ But, it is restricted to the time of the great flood in Genesis 6, because the Matthew 24:37

      Way to go Yartap.This is the way to really know what some scriptures mean when on the surface it seems to mean something else..Also, I use this/your method as “my two witness” approach.

       
  21. George

    January 10, 2014 at 12:28 AM

    Jesus kicking out the banksters…..Sigh….The Church elders let them back in…..

    Michael Hoffman on usury https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT0grvk16NI

    Hoffman’s book store. http://revisionisthistorystore.blogspot.com/2010/03/michael-hoffmans-online-revisionist.html

    ………George

     
  22. Jetlag

    January 10, 2014 at 1:51 AM

    @J.M.

    I await your thoughts on the above citations of Luke 13:33 and Revelation 18:21-24 which together constitute clear proof that Babylon = Jerusalem.

     
    • J.M.

      January 10, 2014 at 3:06 AM

      @Jetlag,I await your thoughts on the above citations of Luke 13:33 and Revelation 18:21-24 which together constitute clear proof that Babylon = Jerusalem.

      Just now saw you message.

      OK. IF I am still alive tomorrow, I will give you my understanding. But I hope you know by now, that’s all it is,my understanding only. I am going to bed now. Shalom !!! I hope the word shalom does not offend you. If you understand the meaning of it like I do, I know it will not offend you

       
    • J.M.

      January 10, 2014 at 11:50 AM

      Good morning Jetlag & as you can tell, I am still here.

      @Jetlag,> I await your thoughts on the above citations of Luke 13:33 and Revelation 18:21-24 which together constitute clear proof that Babylon = Jerusalem.

      Luke 13:33 > “Yet I must continue my journey to-day and to-morrow and the day following; for it is not conceivable that a Prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.

      Without more, & taking this verse alone & nothing else, I think it means somebody is on a journey & knows it will take the remainder of that day + 2 more days to get there. Also, this verse,alone,says that any Prophet will die in Jerusalem

      Re: Revelation 18:21-24 Rather than copy & paste everything that is written in Revelation 18:21-24, I will say after reading same,to me, it’s talking about a city, but as to what city, I don’t know because of what verse 24 says

      24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

      The only cities I am aware of where ALL were slain,are Sodom & Gomorrah. I can only say that I see no proof that Jerusalem & Jerusalem ONLY, is Babylon.

       
    • J.M.

      January 11, 2014 at 4:29 PM

      Jetlag,
      I apologize and stand corrected. I see now, that “all that were slain” does not “necessarily” mean the entire population but those OF the entire population,meaning a few or even more were not slain.

       
  23. Jetlag

    January 10, 2014 at 1:52 PM

    @J.M. “Good morning Jetlag & as you can tell, I am still here.”

    Congratulations on another day.

    @J.M. “it’s talking about a city, but as to what city, I don’t know because of what verse 24 says”

    This verse is why we DO know what city is being talked about, because only one city fits the description:

    Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    And we know from Luke 13:33 that prophets can only die in one city, which means the city being discussed in Revelation 18:24 is that city: Jerusalem.

    And we know, from Revelation 11:8, that this Babylon is where “our Lord was crucified”, which can only be one place.

    Also, the phrase is “all that were slain”, not “all were slain”. These two phrases have different meanings.

    @J.M. “I can only say that I see no proof that Jerusalem & Jerusalem ONLY, is Babylon.”

    Jerusalem was not the only Babylon. Even today, in America, there are several Babylons, and a few more in Mexico and Canada. But Jerusalem is the only Babylon of Revelation, because Revelation identifies its Babylon using the singular tense, as a single “great city”, “the” great city, meaning Revelation is concerned with a specific Babylon.

    Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

    Revelation 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

    Revelation 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

    Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

    Also:

    Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

    In the same chapter, verse 18 clarifies who this woman is: “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city“.

     
    • donmako

      January 10, 2014 at 2:56 PM

      Vatican city? Been funding both sides of just about every war. Also loves scarlet and gold and the like. Sits on 7 hills… more on that…..

       
      • J.M.

        January 10, 2014 at 3:20 PM

        donmako
        @Vatican city?
        Personally,ut oh,I’m not supposed to use that word because it has “person” in it. I’m gonna leave it in anyway. Hello,donmako, As far as I’m concerned,you did not need to put a question mark after Vatican City. I believe it is Vatican City. Jetlag was/is asking me about Jerusalem,not Vatican City. Anyway, I think you are correct,donmako. The Pope had a Title at one time & when you added up the numerical value of that “Title” it came out to 666. The Title was, Vicar of Christ & something else added that I do not remember, it’s been so long. However,this is just another one of those “very interesting possibilities.”

         
      • J.M.

        January 10, 2014 at 8:07 PM

        donmako.
        you are not hittin me up with yer thoughts. Hit me up with yer thoughts (I like that phrase) on my comment to you in the Things to come thread & this one too. I like yer thoughts.

         
    • J.M.

      January 10, 2014 at 3:04 PM

      @Jetlag, Also, the phrase is “all that were slain”, not “all were slain”. These two phrases have different meanings.
      I agree, but now you have me confused. Why? Because, & you can read my message again, above, and this is what I wrote,>24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
      It’s my understanding, that, upon the earth, means, anywhere on the planet earth,inhabited by people. All that were slain,means to me,just that all of them. I don’t believe it just includes prophets although all prophets were included. Anyway, I don’t think understanding “these” particular scriptures is the key to inheriting the Kingdom of God. If you think I’m wrong,tell me why.

       
  24. Yartap

    January 10, 2014 at 5:14 PM

    Joyous Greetings, Jim,

    If I may give my thoughts upon the Two Witnesses (Revelation 11: 3-13) ….

    First, let me say, that I cannot give to you a definitive answer, but I may be able to lead you.

    Strong’s Concordance translates “witness” from the Greek work “martus” (G: 3144) and defines it as “martyr, record, and witness.” Please note, that a “martyr” is one who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles; and a “record” can be a written document and/or a verbalized doctrine.

    After the introduction of the two witnesses in Rev. 11:3, the fourth verse, tells us who they are:

    “These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”

    To find out more about the two witnesses, read and study all of Zechariah chapter 4. Pay close attention to verses 2 with the “seven lamps;” verse 7 with Zerubbabel “bring forth the headstone (Christ);” verse 9 with Zerubbabel laying the “foundation (he built the second temple),” and with God “hath sent me (Christ) unto you;” verse 10 with Zerubbabel “with the seven;” and verses 12-14 with another description of the two olive trees “with two golden pipes” as the “two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”

    Now, we have the two witnesses described as two olive trees, two candlesticks or two golden pipes, and two anointed ones.

    Could the “seven lamps” in Zechariah 4:2 be the “seven candlesticks” which are the seven churches as found in Revelation 1: 20?

    Revelation 11: 3 tell us that the two witnesses prophesy for 1,230 days, and Revelation 11: 9 tells us that the two witnesses laid dead in the street for three and a half (3 &1/2) days before God raised them to heaven.

    Why question the time? Because is it man’s time as found in Genesis 1 (the evening and morning were a day) or was it God’s time which is a thousand years is a day, II Peter 3: 8. The Geneva Bible says that the 1,230 days is 1,230 years and the 3 & ½ days is 3 & ½ years. I only offer this as a minor thought and do not wish to dwell to cause confusion.

    Finally, I am lead by my spirit and soul to say,…..

    For me, using thought and reasoning with a man’s limited mind, and using just the basic word-meaning in the scriptures; I understand the meaning of what a “witness” is and what a “testimony” is. I understand that by the word of Two a fact is established as true. One confirms the other and the other confirms the one, to establish a truth. And I reason and believe that the Two Witnesses confirmed and established that God and Christ are real by their testimony, be it verbal or written.

    For me, God and Christ are in heaven, now; and all that I am left with are the Holy Ghost for the leading, comforting and strengthening of my mind and spirit, and the Word of God upon this earth. I reason and believe that the Holy Ghost will remain with a believer forever and never die as the witnesses did, because the Ghost is as one with God and Christ. I reason and believe that the Holy Ghost will be with believers right up to the return/coming of Christ. This belief removes the Holy Ghost as being one of the witnesses. Therefore,……

    I am left with only the Word of God as being the two witnesses: the Old Testament and The New Testament, which confirms both God and Christ, which one testament cannot stand without the other testament, and which could be destroyed/outlawed by man.

    But, I know that the Word of God cannot be removed or destroyed by man in the believer’s heart. Just the non-believers will see and celebrate what they believe to be the Holy Book’s death before their eyes. Because the believer is promised with a New Covenant, which will place God’s laws into our minds and write them in our hearts, Hebrews 8: 8-13 and Jeremiah 31: 31-33. Praise be to God, Amen.

    Yartap.

     
    • J.M.

      January 10, 2014 at 8:48 PM

      Hello yartap,
      @ I am left with only the Word of God as being the two witnesses: the Old Testament and The New Testament,
      The word “only” (as you say) leaves me hanging & here is why. Of what value is/are any book(s) IF it/they are never read by anyone? Books do not come right out & say, “Hey if you will read me, I have the answer to your question. Oh yes,yartap, I too believe the Old & New Testaments ARE most definitely TWO witnesses but as far as those two witnesses laying in the streets dead for any length of time doesn’t make sense. Those two witness are laying in most peoples homes dead anyway,TODAY. I have seen some people make notes in what we call The Holy Bible. Some people are appalled at this. I’m not. The cover is not holy. The paper itself is not holy. I have seen people underline certain scriptures. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. It seems to help them REMEMBER what was/is said, which is good. For, “God” to resurrect two books & take them to heaven doesn’t make sense. There will be plenty of the SAME books STILL on the earth. You have one, or more & so do I. However, I don’t think you will agree with my thoughts on this matter so let me ask you this. WHICH translation of the many translations do you think “God” will resurrect & take to heaven? Let’s stay friends, now.

       
      • Yartap

        January 11, 2014 at 10:20 PM

        With a smile upon my face, Greeting! Jim,

        First, let me say that we will always be friend. I truly enjoy sharing the Lord with others, especially you, Jim. Will we ever disagree? Brothers many times will seem to never agree.

        I cannot say that I disagree with your words and thoughts. I understand where you are coming from. It greatly saddens me to see others neglect their duty to the Lord and reject Him, unknowingly. Jim, we can lead a man to water, but we cannot make him drink. So, sadly, the Scriptures or Good News will not be read, studied and known.

        I can take the attitude that I will only worry about my own salvation; but, sharing the Lord with others is a fulfilling need for one , because it is better to give than to receive. And I understand why giving is better, because, the joy of giving is within itself a gift to me. But, when I give a gift that is rejected, I feel despair and sadness. But, the name upon the gift will always remain in place and waiting for acceptance. The slow learner is never rejected by God or Christ.

        Jim, for the life of me, I do not understand why anyone would want to reject the knowing of the joy in the GIFT of permanently removing sin from our lives by the last and final sacrifice of blood, being Jesus’s life given freely for us. But, many do reject the gift. This is a hurdle for believers like us, that we must accept. All will not be saved, even close love ones!

        Yes, as you say, the two witnesses are already dead in many homes. But, Jim, the books ARE in the home. And maybe, just maybe by chance, a small seed from just one of those books may be planted for one’s salvation to eternal life, while the testaments remain in the house.

        But, when, for the joy of a sinful nature, a man removes those tormenting books from his home and destroys those books by decree, what remainth then? Well, the beast, who killed the two witnesses, starts his reign; the ascending of the witnesses; and God’s judgement unto eternity.
        With the every last verse in Revelation, what do we find in temple? We find the two witnesses joined together and placed in “the ark of his testament.” This final verse in chapter 11 is what the events are all about, for me.

        You say the cover and paper are not holy, but I say that they are because they are made holy by being anointed with the Holy Words written within. The underlining and ware placed upon one’s holy book is just the knocking at the door and seeking of the Lord, which only shows one’s seeking to know the Lord.

        Which translation will be in the ark? There will be no translation placed there, but rather, the original words and meaning of the Lord. For all translations will be molded into one.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
    • J.M.

      January 13, 2014 at 12:26 AM

      Yartap,
      Wow !!! Thanks for “keeping in touch.” I was becoming somewhat discouraged because I have asked questions to “others” re: their message & he/she will not answer me. You,Christian Gains,& David Baugh Respond & that’s it. I haven’t heard from either one of them however, in a while. Ok DEAR Brother,what about this? > And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them..Where are these feet located, IF the “THEM” & THEY are the Old & New Testaments? Where are these feet? AND if they have feet,they,I would think have legs too,&, well, you get my drift. I know you do.

       
  25. Yartap

    January 23, 2014 at 5:15 PM

    Greetings, Jim,

    I did not wish to offend you or the Lord by using the word, “human.” For me, I describe a “man” as being a “human.” I do NOT describe a man as being a “human being” (one who looks or appears to be human or man like). For me, I see the term, human, as having all the qualities of a Godly man. But, I do know that “human” can be used in a negative meaning, i.e. “It is human nature to commit sin.” For many the equating of human and man is incorrect, I cannot disagree.

    But, as related to the verses, once the people, who celebrated the Two Witnesses death, saw that the Two Testaments did not go out of existence and were true/the truth (“stood upon their feet” an analogy), great fear came upon those who saw (understood) this truth.

    I am lead to further explain and share, the unbelievers see all others to be just like themselves (misery loves company). To them, there is no difference between” man and man;” and all men share the same qualities and faults. There is no difference (but, we know is not true) to them. And the unbeliever, believing as an average human of the world, sees and judges to establish his/her or the popular opinion/belief about anything or any person. Thus, just like opinions set about a certain man or woman, when it comes to written Books of the Bible, their same rules apply to the Books. And if the authorities (beast) say the Books are BS, then the public will say the same thing. And they will equate the Books to any other BS books that have been written. But, when they see the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; then, and only then, will they realize that the Two Witnessing Testaments are the Truth of the Lord.

    Where are these feet (Witnesses)? If I’m right, we hold and walk with them in our hearts everyday. But, in many places upon the earth they are outlawed. And the lack of belief outlaws them even more. It is only by God’s written Word, that we can know and love Him, today and in the future. The danger of the Books against the beast, is that we have the Word of God in a one step direct reading access to the Lord. We do not have to go through any other man, authority, nor church to be next to God.

    This is the spirt of my heart.

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • J.M.

      January 23, 2014 at 7:17 PM

      Shalom,Yartap.
      I’m glad that the things you & I do not understand alike are not the key or keys that will get us into the Kingdom of God. Now, re:this word “human.” It is an interesting word. Here is my belief & it may sound like I am double talking or as some Indians say, speaking with a forked tongue. I don’t believe I am a human BUT I am convinced that I have human nature.There are many reasons why I believe this. Also, I believe “It IS human nature to commit sin.” Is it good to commit sin? It’s a bad thing to do. Good ol human nature at work. Consider the “human events” described in the Statute of 1776. Do you see anything good in those “human” events, as described? Human, to me, is a good term to describe something bad. But I don’t believe I am going to be thrown into the lake of fire because & only because of my understanding or misunderstanding of what the word human means or is.We sometimes strain at gnats & swallow elephants. You & I understand ALIKE the KEY that opens the door to the Kingdom of God. But understanding this in & of itself will not open the door. I believe Satan understands too, what is required to get into the Kingdom of God but his understanding it 100% ain’t goan git him in. It will be the doers not the knowers knowing but not doing what is required to get into that Kingdom of God. That Kingdom where the lamb will lay down beside the Lion & the Lion will lovingly lick the lamb with his/her tongue. IMAGINE THAT !!!

      After you respond to this, if you do, I want you to tell me what it is I am missing about another matter. It truly is something that has me bumfuzzled. It’s a head scratcher at least for me.

       
  26. Yartap

    January 23, 2014 at 8:59 PM

    Greetings, Jim,

    As we spoke about how we each define human differently in meaning and understanding, it made me reflex upon the story of the Tower of Babel. And I wondered to ask: if this differences we have in defining and understanding words could be, also, a remnant or part of God’s confusing/confounding our language from that event, even with those who have the same language? May be – May be not.

    I do not believe that God intended confusion between those who speak the same language, and its probably more related to just lack of knowledge. But, it does strike me as a possibility; because definitions are so important to understanding and to knowledge as part of the mechanics for obtaining the TRUTH. And because it takes words to describe/define a word. As we should know and be watchful for the deception of definitions. It is through the altering of definitions of straight forward words that governments deceives us. We see this done in codes and statutes.

    Jim, we agree about the KEY. I can be just as pure in heart and deed. I can follow His Words and Commandments. I can believe in and accept God and His Christ as my Redeemer. But, I do believe and accept that God has the power, the right and the authority to reject me at His pleasure, for I am His and His only. But, Praise be to God!, for He is not a liar and is faithful to His Word and His Promise unto eternal life with Him.

    I look forward to your head scratcher. Maybe, with the help of God, we can figure it out.

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • J.M.

      January 24, 2014 at 3:42 AM

      Thanks for your reply. Yartap,
      @ > I can believe in and accept God and His Christ as my Redeemer. But, I do believe and accept that God has the power, the right and the authority to reject me at His pleasure, for I am His and His only
      Before you respond Yartap, read this over a couple of times first.

      Why would he desire to reject anyone who is his & his only? I really do not understand your statement. The only ones he would reject,it seems to me,would be the ones who decided he/she no longer wanted to be his. Look at King Solomon. He touched God’s heart with his prayer. Remember that prayer? But look at what he did in the end of his life. Every abominable thing you can imagine. Worshiped false idols & on & on & on. Solomon was no longer “his.” What you are saying, Yartap, at least the way I’m understanding it, is, God has the power, the RIGHT and the authority to reject you,me or anyone BECAUSE we are his.Because we are his??? I’m missing something here. I could understand your statement IF you said God has the power, the right and the authority to reject me,you or anyone at His pleasure, that he considers IS NOT HIS. BUT, if you are saying God could destroy the whole universe if he wanted to, I would say, yes indeed, if he wanted to. Well anyway, I don.t think God is going to reject his “own” Those that are “HIS.” Dense ain’t I?

      Ok. Here is my problem. I’m not going to try to explain the entire problem ALL at once. It has to do with time. Jesus said there were 12 hours in the day. Now without straining at gnats, let’s say there are 24 hours in a time period. 12 of these hours are light, like when we can see the sun. 12 of these hours are dark, like when after the sun has set. Ok so we have 12 hours of light & 12 hours of darkness. The scriptures say,

      And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. <These words do not have to be interpreted.it's plain I understand these words,I think I do.
      Now don't we still call the light day & the darkness, night? We still do this to this day, don't we?
      Today,tonight, we understand these these words alike, I think. Anyway, I said before that I believe there are 12 hours of daylight & 12 hours of no light, or darkness. I also said let's not strain at gnats re: these 12 hours. Let's just say approximately 12 hours of each to be on the safe side. Also, I do not need an explanation of days becoming shorter in the winter & longer in the summer. I already know this. What I'm trying my best to do here is make it as simple as possible. NOW what is the FIRST thing God said re: this "time" frame of 24 hours. He, according to the Scriptures said, LET THERE BE LIGHT. For there to be light, & in the sense we are speaking of,it is the SUN that gives this kind of light. When the sun sets we go into darkness. Let me ask you like this. Which comes first, sunrise or sunset ? How can the sun set before it rises? Remember, The first thing God said was, Let there be light. He did not say, Let there be darkness, at least at first. OK Yartap, How is it then that a day starts in the evening at or a little after sunset, when God called the light day? And the darkness he called, night, How does this day, begin at night or evening when there is no light? I'll follow up on this later. Just answer this. Which comes first, sunrise or sunset? < Lets start there,with that question. Which comes first,sunrise or sunset?

       
  27. Yartap

    January 24, 2014 at 3:36 PM

    Greetings, Jim,

    All I am trying to say is that I ACCEPT and BELIEVE IN God’s power and authority over me. I recognize His strength and I accept it as true. He is my LORD (owner) and CREATOR (gives Him right); and I accept this as true. There is not anything that exist that God does not own or “IS NOT HIS:” He owns, by creation, ALL things. Even Solomon was owned by God. It was Solomon’s rejection of God that got him in trouble. To say that Solomon was not owned by God, is to place Solomon outside of God’s realm.

    Remember the old proverb, “The Potter rejects that which unpleasingly He created.” Yes, a creator has the right to reject something he creates and owns. But a creator cannot reject or destroy anything that he did not create nor own; this would be evil.

    Plus, remember the story of Noah. Read Genesis 6:5-8. Then we receive His promise to never destroy everything on the earth again, Genesis 9:11-17. But, Praise be to God!, for He is not a liar and is faithful to His Word and His Promise unto eternal life with Him. One should become fearful, who does not follow His covenant; for this will bring rejection of him, by his Creator.

    Now, do you understand me? I cannot take for granted or take advantage of His promise of to not flood the earth ever again. I MUST! REMEMBER! His power and His authority over me. I will not forget! This is why I say such.

    Jim, thank you for your question. I have never thought about it. But, it has lead me to find the revealing answer in the scriptures. We find in Genesis 1:1-5, that God created “the heaven and the earth,” first; and that darkness existed, then God created the light which divided the light from darkness by God. The light was called “Day” and the darkness was called “Night.” And the evening (first darkness existed) and the morning (sun rise and first light) were the first DAY of God’s creation.

    Your question, “What comes first, sunrise or sunset?”, could be considered as of a paradoxical in nature. But, with the use of words, “sunrise” and “sunset,” the implications create this paradox. “Sunrise” implies the Night (darkness) precedes, because you cannot have one with out the other; and “sunset” implies the Day (light) precedes, because you cannot have one without the other, also. Thus, the paradox.

    If you were to ask, “When was the start (day? or night?) of the first day? I would have to say that our God began His work in the darkness, by His creation of the heaven and the earth, first; then comes the light afterwards. Thus, the beginning of a day, today, is the start of darkness and ends with darkness’s return. Or as the scriptures say, “And the evening (Night) and the morning (light/Day) were the first day.” The scriptures imply this by naming the “evening” first and then the “morning” second in describing each of God’s days of creation.

    Now, your thankful question, makes me wonder about the true start of a day. Are we (man’s law of time), generally speaking, 6 hours off from God’s time? I would say YES, we are not in God’s time. Because, generally speaking, darkness (Night/evening) falls around 6:00 p.m. and light (Day/morning) comes around 6:00 a.m.

    Thank you, Jim, for this new revelation given to me; and the mental exercise with the Lord.

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • J.M.

      January 25, 2014 at 5:34 PM

      @ Jim, thank you for your question. I have never thought about it.

      Really? Most people have never thought about it either. God actually revealed some things to me years ago when I was trying to do it his way. I knew I was worthless & so much so I wanted to die to escape my misery. I called out to him for help. I was sincere. He DID help me & he blessed me immensely. Slowly but surely I put those blessings # 1 & things began to slowly fade into oblivion. I called out to him again for help. He revealed something else to me & I’ll try to explain it it in a simple way. In essence he, in an exchange of thoughts, said.” NO !!! I’m not going to help you.look at what you did with what I did reveal to you. IF you had stayed humble,you would understand more for I would have revealed more. You put the THINGS I gave you before me. Remember you became so wrapped up in your material possessions you didn’t even have time to talk with me anymore. It’s good that you found out who you thought were your friends were only using you. You had time for them but you didn’t need me anymore. I really enjoyed our conversations & I was looking forward to more. Actually, James, you deserted me.You broke my heart. You forgot that I have feelings too.You made your own bed, enjoy it if you can.” Well, it has been a rough road to hoe but I did ask for it. I didn’t know what I was asking for. But some of us HAVE to learn the hard way. However, once again, when I came to what little sense I had left, at least enough to know, as Paul said oh wretched man that I am, HEY by the way when Paul said that, he was in pristine condition compared to me, anyway once again I saw what I REALLY WAS, & brother this HUMBLED me again.HOWEVER, God lifted me up out of that misery & I have asked him not to lift me up any higher because I don’t EVER want to become high & mighty again, & in need of, not anything. At this point, I am again receiving some revelations but not like I once did. Maybe I want to understand things that are not necessary to know, at this time, at least in my life.

       
  28. J.M.

    January 24, 2014 at 5:06 PM

    Yartap,
    I had about a page full written to you & decided to “cut & paste same” to send later, that is IF we are still sharing which I hope we do.
    @ >. But, it has lead me to find the revealing answer in the scriptures.
    THANK YOU !!! This IS WHERE the answers ARE. It’s just that I haven’t found it YET. AND it is extremely important that we know the answer BECAUSE, how can we obey “God” & remember to KEEP anything at the correct time IF we don’t know for sure when it begins or ends? Now you may have the answer in the remainder of your comment. I haven’t, at this point, read (<red) any more of your comment but I will proceed to read more of it now.

    Ok, I have read the rest of your comment. Now allow me to try & explain my understanding of,"In the beginning." "In the beginning God created the heavens & the earth." <With only this, we can only imagine the end result, at least at this point. I see the end result of the heavens & the earth created by "God" as breathtakingly beautiful. I cannot see, imagine it being any other way. BUT, something is not adding up here. The next verse says,what? The earth was empty & void. Considering that the earth did not exist until God created it, as the first scripture says he created it, I cannot grasp God creating something empty & void. It does not make any sense in any stretch of the imagination. He created something empty & void ??? PLEASE give me a break. Yartap, something is wrong here. Ok, then, please explain to me why God created the earth empty & void but show me from the scriptures, why. Not just an opinion & I ask this kindly, not harshly.

     
    • J.M.

      January 24, 2014 at 5:16 PM

      P.S > And the earth was “without form” Oh, ok this makes even worse to say God created something without form, he created something that didn’t have any form? Sorry, I ain’t buying that without a biblical explanation of why “God” created the earth or anything that didn’t have any form to it. As I said, something is not “kosher” here.

       
      • Christian Gains

        January 25, 2014 at 2:36 PM

        J.M., (in answer to your “…God created something that didn’t have form…” quandry. Actually, this is a good example why Hebrew Scholars recommend that Christians, (that can’t read Hebrew), be careful not to try INTERPRETING. 

        Gen. 1:1 – 2: These verses say “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth” (pause) And the Earth was without form and void…” 

        Now, in the Hebrew version, this is closer to the actual meaning: “beginning” = [#227: az; awz; ‘beginning’]; — “created” = [#1254 : bara; ‘create’; ‘select’;] — “form” : [#8414 : “tohuw” = empty place, without form, nothing]; 

        Now, here’s a far more specific translation: In (tohuw bara Yawey az) {remember tho, Hebrew is always read from right to left — opposite of English, so that az is on the right, and each progressive word moves to the left} = “Yawey selected, from nothing, the Earth”….is much closer to the reality…or “created, from nothing, the earth”, (but remember, even tho He’s “created – made” the Earth, yet, it was empty & dark, until HE spoke things into being. And the first thing He spoke was “Let there be light”, and “He divided the light from the darkness, and called the light day, and the darkness night”. And HE went on, speaking nothing into something…But! He did NOT create nothing…He created FROM nothing, something. Hope this helps. BTW, I had the same problem until I started getting taught Hebrew.  

         
  29. Adask

    January 25, 2014 at 5:04 AM

    Perhaps the “earth without form” is not THE “Earth” in the sense of the planet and finished “place”. Maybe the “earth without form” is something like a pile (or even cloud) of newly created matter (dirt, “earth”) that would later be given the FORM of the planet and place we now call “Earth”.

     
    • J.M.

      January 25, 2014 at 1:44 PM

      Wow !! You, Alfred, responded. Did not expect that. Thank you !!!
      Well, the bible gives the answer to this “seemingly” head scratcher. I just wanted to see what Yartap’s “theory” is. However,Yartap sometimes comes up with some “jewels” e.g. > He said, “… it has lead me to find the revealing answer in the scriptures.” Isaiah 45:18, For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth, and made it, the very maker thereof: he did not create it in vain….” Contradiction ? Sure seems so. But,not really, WHEN this is also explained in another part of the scripture.
      dejure, i believe, has been a Godsend to your blog. God’s standard of poverty & the world’s standard of poverty are 2 entirely different things. You are not living in poverty by God’s standards. Yes we both are by the world’s standards.Just trying to make this brief. Yartap where you? It’s ok to talk about things like this on the Sabbath. Remember Yartap, you also said this blog is a church. I do agree with you about some things & I’m not saying you are wrong about the things we are not in agreement on. I just don’t understand those things as you do.

       
      • J.M.

        January 25, 2014 at 2:02 PM

        P.S. ONCE AGAIN, only part of my message posted.A full paragraph did not post. Above, where it says Isaiah 45:18, there was at least a full paragraph BEFORE those words where you see tIsaiah 45:18

         
  30. J.M.

    January 25, 2014 at 3:59 PM

    Christian Gains
    @January 25, 2014 at 2:36 PM
    Hi Christian Gains, good to hear from you. I already know the “BIBLE” answer to without form,etc. I like to read Yartap’s “theories.” I wanted to see what his theory was re: my questions. We have a BIG handicap when some messages do not go through completely. This only happens per this kind of subject matter. Also, Some messages that do go through entirely ( all of the message not just part) do not show up at all until a couple of days later & this can lead into confusion also. I just keep pluggin away. Sometimes I ask questions as “food for thought.” Sometimes I ask questions hoping someone can bring up a couple of scriptures that give the answer. My “food for thought” questions are not understood to be that at all. They are understood by “some others,” to be questions I am seeking answers to. HEY GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU,Christian Gains. THANKS !!!
    OHhh by the way, and this IS a question I do not know the answer to. Maybe you do, Lev 23 verse 32 I think that is the chapter. If I try to find it now, I will lose what I have typed. Anyway, I’ll check after I post this message, & hopefully it will all go through, BUT, explain to me what this “evening of the 9th day” means. Thanks Christian.

     
  31. J.M.

    January 25, 2014 at 4:27 PM

    “……is a good example why Hebrew Scholars recommend …..”

    Well then I guess God only wanted SCHOLARS to understand the Holy Bible. We who are not scholars can just bend over & FIRMLY kiss it all goodbye. Only scholars have a chance to inherit the Kingdom of God. Well now I know I’m out so I’m gonna go out & raise hell, excuse me Cain, but it will be sugar cain. What cemetery did Moses go to? I think Peter was a Fisherman, & Luke, wasn’t he a physician? think he was. I could go on but you get the point. Jesus taught, they wrote down what he taught, & it’s there for ANYONE to read. But, NO !! we will not understand even the, what really is important, if our hearts are hard and I don’t care how scholarly we are. SCHOLARSHIP has nothing to do with UNDERSTANDING what our LIFEGIVER knows. What are theories? In a worldly profession, I think a degree is wonderful. But we don’t need a Bachler er dachturt degree in theahhlergy to understand at least the IMPORTANT things that we should know in the “Word of God.” The Creator & Sustainer of the UNIVERSE.

     
  32. Yartap

    January 25, 2014 at 5:26 PM

    Greetings, Jim, Alfred,

    Jim, I have not found a scripture or verse as to “why” God created the earth empty and void. But, if you read all of Genesis 1, you see a detailed, day to day, PROCESS of God creating everything. We find God creating from something “without form,” to empty and void with water all over, to a planet with water above and below (atmosphere), to land and sea, to fish and plants, to animals, to man, unto a planet full of life, in six days. As with any creator, the process of creation starts with materials and placing the materials together in proper sequence.

    The use of “without form” in describing the earth, leads me away from the Scriptures (though the verses hint to what I going to tell you). So, what does it mean “without form?” Does this mean the earth is not shaped like other planets? Does this mean the creation is not complete to its finished product? All are possible.

    Now, Jim and Alfred, this may blow your minds by what I’m going to tell you. There are text that precede the Holy Scriptures. One is from the ancient Sumerians called “Enuma Elish” (translated by Zecharia Sitchin), which came about 5000 years before Christ; and the Egyptian text called “Kolbrin,” which came about 1600 years before Christ. Both text relate the story of the creation of earth. But, there are slight differences between the Scripture’s version of creation and these text’s versions. It must be noted that the Sumeria texts are the oldest know texts in the world.

    The problem that historians and scientists have with the Sumerians is that their ADVANCED civilization “just appears” on the sene and cannot be linked to or from any pre-historic so-called man. How advanced? The Sumerians knew that the world is round and knew of other planets in the solar system (they claim 12 planets existed). They know each’s size and placement in order from the sun; and their named each.

    But, the Sumerians tell of a creation story that involves a giant planet with an irregular obit called “Nibiru,” which comes into our solar system and collides with a solar system planet called Tiamat (means: “watery monster”). Nibiru is larger than any planet in our solar system. What is not clear from the Sumerian’s text is that Nibiru is referred to being the “twelveth” planet in our solar system. But, it is clear from the text that this planet, Nibiru, comes into our solar system every 3,600 years (It must be noted, that we recognize 13 planets in our solar system, today).

    As you might imagine, planets colliding together is a big catastrophe. But, what is interesting about the Sumerian’s story is that “Tiamat’s” obit was placed between Mars’s and Jupiter’s obit before the collision with Nibiru. Today, what exist in that area is our Asteroid Belt, a belt of fragmented pieces of rock in orbit around the sun. Continuing from the Sumerians, we learn that the giant planet, Nibiru, collides with Tiamat and breaks Tiamat into many pieces. The largest piece or part of Tiamat is thrown into a new orbit between Venus and Mars. This becomes earth, which means Cleaved One (cut away) in the Sumerian language.

    From the Sumerians, we learn that the giant planet, Nibiru, is occupied by an advanced culture of beings called the “Annunaki;” with many displaced upon the earth from the collision between Nibiru and Tiamat. And that the Annunaki are the ones who create man to a lower degree in their “image.” This may explain how the Sumerians just “appeared” on the sene.

    If the Sumerian text of the creation is a fictional story, then it is a good one. Because, it explains the asteroid belt; it has knowledge of the planets; it knows that the planets are round; it may explain our Scriptures use of the plural term, “godS,” and angles as the Annunaki; it may explain our Scriptures’ use in Genesis 1 of describing our planet as water covered; and it may explain why our planet was “without form” in Genesis 1.

    Further, the Sumerians give another stunning thing: their exact description about the color and nature of Uranus and Neptune, which we have confirmed only in this century. Plus, scientist claim that the earth is the only planet, yet, to be known with geological plates on the surface, as if cracked.

    Now, the Egyptian text called “Kolbrin,” only speaks of a giant planet called the “destroyer,” which comes every 3,600 years, and tells that it has come many times.

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • J.M.

      January 25, 2014 at 6:50 PM

      @ > Jim, I have not found a scripture or verse as to “why” God created the earth empty and void.

      He didn’t. > .” Isaiah 45:18, For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth, and made it, the very maker thereof: he did not create it in vain….”
      Now, where are we? Maybe the Geneva Bible will tell us or we may find the answer in Enuma Elish & Kolbrin.

       
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 7:57 PM

        @ Maybe the Geneva Bible will tell us or we may find the answer in Enuma Elish & Kolbrin.

        I wrote the above words Yartrap, BECAUSE these ARE the SOURCES YOU keep referring to. I was being somewhat sarcastic. Remember Jesus saying, GO TELL THAT FOX… sarcastic in that sense,Yartrap.

         
    • Christian Gains

      January 26, 2014 at 11:56 AM

      As I think & pray about this matter, I feel led that I should advise ALL of you who care to take a more scholarly and deeper, broader look into Genesis, that you cannot go wrong in perusing Dr, Heisers’ blogs & Papers.

      One particular subject that I enjoy, is Dr. Heiser’s Peer Reviewed Papers on the “DIVINE COUNCIL”. (Actually, they make up his PHD Dissertation), and it’s fascinating insight into the realities of God’s Kingdom and manner of ruling! God DOES have a council, (termed the “Sons of God” in several places throughout the Old Testament). “TRY IT! You might like it!”

       
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 7:36 PM

        Christian Gains
        Ain’t it AWFUL that the BEREANS did not have access to these will make the lights come on documents/writings/sources. WHAT DOES IT SAY THE BEREANS DID? It says, they searched the WHAT? And for what reason did they search this source? What source did they search? ok, I confess that I too am a Berean & I am prejudiced. What does FIRST PETER 3:15 mean? Are you going to answer my “In the 9th day at evening question?”

         
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 7:38 PM

        @ “TRY IT! You might like it!”
        Yeah, right !! & if it feels good DO IT.

         
  33. J.M.

    January 25, 2014 at 5:59 PM

    @ Yartap, your message >January 25, 2014 at 5:26 PM

    @ >In other words the Holy Bible does not give the whole story. We need to add the ancient Sumerians called “Enuma Elish” (translated by Zecharia Sitchin), which came about 5000 years before Christ; and the Egyptian text called “Kolbrin,” which came about 1600 years before Christ.

    Yartap you are always right about something(s) in our “sharing the scriptures” & now including the above,e.g. Enuma Elish & Kolbrin.You are right, Yartap. It did blow my mind. I’m beginning to to think you are a scholar too. You are well versed, no doubt about that. Thanks for enlightening me.

     
  34. Yartap

    January 25, 2014 at 9:32 PM

    Greetings, Jim,

    I took your advice, and looked up the foot notes of the Geneva Bible for Genesis 1. And I found some very interesting notes about verse 2’s words, “without form” and “moved.”

    Genesis 1:2,
    “And the earth was WITHOUT FORM, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God MOVED upon the face of the waters.”

    First, the “without form” had two side notes: the first note describe the earth’s form as a “RUDE LUMP;” and the second note called the earth’s form as a “WASTE.”

    And next, the side note for “moved” said that “He (God) maintained this CONFUSED HEAP by His secret power.”

    So, we have from Geneva, a “rude lump,” which makes the earth sound like it is NOT round; we have the form of earth sounding like it is a “waste” from something else; and we have God maintaining (keeping together?) this earthly “confused heap” with His power.

    This sounds close to being the Sumerian story of creation; except, in the Sumerian story, the planets and sun exist before the creation of earth. Or could I have the Genesis story all wrong in my understanding. You see, we are told God created the heaven and earth, first, and then God said “Let there be light: and there was light.” (Gen. 1:3). This was done on the first day of creation and many have accepted and call our first day of the week, “SUN-DAY,” to signify the creation of the sun. But, we find in the Genesis story that God “made two great lights” (sun and moon) along with the stars on the Fourth Day of creation, Genesis 1:14-19. (Houston – we have a problem!) This is ,also, confirmed in the same verses by God to use the sun and moon for signs, for seasons, for days, and for years.

    Now, with this in mind, could it be that the first light was God establishing “Good” and “Evil?” Because, in verse 4, God SAW the light, that it was GOOD: and God DIVIDED the light (good) from the darkness (evil). It’s a theory, but the chronological order of events makes it hard to understand just what this first light is. And Yes – I understand God declared many other things as good. We should know that God is the Light.

    I intend no confusion, but this is something to ponder.

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • J.M.

      January 25, 2014 at 10:52 PM

      @ but this is something to ponder

      This is also something to ponder TOO..& WHY did you leave this out? > Isaiah 45:18, For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth, and made it, the very maker thereof: he did not create it in vain….” < Either God DID create the earth empty void, without form,in vain, etc, OR he DID NOT. If you check it out, you will see that without form & void in Genesis 1,& VAIN in Isaiah 45:18 is the SAME Hebrew word(s).tohu & bohu. Ok. Here is my problem. I’m not going to try to explain the entire problem ALL at once. “Jim, thank you for your question. I have never thought about it. But, it has lead me to find the revealing answer in the scriptures.” STUPID ME, I thought you meant the Holy Bible that I read & study, the one that starts out in Genesis & ends with Revelation. I guess you do have one or more “bibles” that has the book of Revelations < plural. I don't. I only have the Bible that says, Revelation. nigh-eve.& just too simple minded. You are WAY OUT of my ballpark Yartap. Thanks for trying. I know you gave it your best shot. Maybe God will let you be the one to throw me into the lake of fire.

       
      • J.M.

        January 25, 2014 at 10:57 PM

        Once again, only half of my comment went through & I did not have anything slanted as is showing

         
      • Yartap

        January 26, 2014 at 11:45 AM

        Greetings, Jim,

        Now, I understand your concern with Isaiah 45: 18. Jim, I am not all-knowing. I cannot read your mind. Keeping your complete thoughts from me does not help.

        What you have failed to do with Isaiah 45:18 is to include the complete verse in context, which reads, “[H]e (God) hath established it (earth), he created it NOT in vain (H:8414: empty; w/o form; waste),….he FORMED (H:3335: to mould into form) it to be inhabited:”

        What this verse is saying is that the earth was made without form or vain (H:8414) at the beginning (We know), but that the Lord was NOT going to LEAVE the earth without form nor vain, by His FORMING the earth for its inhabitants. Do not compare the two verses (Gen. 1:2 and Isaiah 45:18) as saying they are counter to each other. They are not. Remember: the potter takes clay (w/o form) and creates with the clay into a finished form for its use.

         
    • J.M.

      January 26, 2014 at 1:12 AM

      @I took your advice, and looked up the foot notes of the Geneva Bible for Genesis 1. And I found some very interesting notes about verse 2′s words, “without form” and “moved.”

      I’ll try again. A little piece at a time. I did not advise you to look up anything in the Geneva Bible. I said: Maybe the Geneva Bible will tell us or we may find the answer in Enuma Elish & Kolbrin.
      I don’t have access to any of the 3 sources.
      @ Rude Lump, Waste, Confused Heap.
      First of all, The God I try to worship is not the author of confusion If you think “God” created the earth and he created it in a confused heap,which also applies to waste & rude lump, You,Yartap are talking about a different God. Sounds to me like it fits SATAN. As you say,Yartap, “Now with this in mind” < Where are we now, in this "sharing" the scriptures? Huh? Why, Yartap did you say If witchcraft works You're all for it. THEN when I say, "It is sad to hear you say this. You,Yartap respond & with all caps showing, at least to me, but you respond by saying, LIGHTEN UP, I was just joking". Any more, & based on other things you have said, I'm not too sure about that. If all of your comment does not post, as is happening with me, I could give leeway. But you have never said this, to my knowledge. If all of this comment does not post,I'm through. Let's see.what happens.

       
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 1:16 AM

        Well, most of it did, but not all. I’m through. There is no sense in trying to respond, at least on this thread.

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 26, 2014 at 11:32 AM

        Yartap, here’s an Ancient Languages Professor who has done a HUGE research on Zecariah Stichins’ Books: michaelsheiser.com

        He reads the Summerian tablets, as well as all the other ancient languages. I think you’ll be well advised to thoroughly study Dr. Heiser’s work, as you will not only learn about Mr. Stichins’ work, but also about translating & interpreting ancient languages. two VERY important issues when trying to understand the Scriptures.

         
    • J.M.

      January 26, 2014 at 7:14 PM

      @ Keeping your complete thoughts from me does not help.

      WHY have you waited this long to say this. I said FROM the git-go THIS > Ok. Here is my problem. I’m not going to try to explain the entire problem ALL at once. < Go back, Yartap & check the date & time. January 24,3:42:am

       
  35. Christian Gains

    January 26, 2014 at 11:44 AM

    Futhermore…If you look at the top of the page, you’ll see “Secariah Stichin” in white letters. clk on that tab & you’ll arrive at the page you will do well to study, as Dr. Heiser is VERY thorough in his explanations of why he disagrees with Mr. Stichin.

    He often warns people that, if you do NOT READ the original language, do NOT try to re-interpret translation you’re reading. Find either, a class to teach you the original language, or a teacher to do it. I did, & it’s saved me from a LOT of humiliation.

    I’ve communicated with Dr. Heiser for years now, and know him to be brilliant and professional. My father was a Professor of two Departments at Emory University, in Atlanta Ga. I grew up in the rare atmosphere of genuine scholars, and I can vouch for Mike. He’s the real deal. Hope this is helpful.

     
    • Yartap

      January 26, 2014 at 12:03 PM

      Greetings, Christian Gains,

      I think that many here have misunderstood my offers of information. When I share or give this information, I have found, it is not to say that the information is true or my belief. It is offered to stimulate the mind for discussion, and to seek if it is true or its relation.

      I will certainly will look up Dr. Michael’s work. Thank you! But, more important than reading a critic of another, has Dr. Heiser interrupted/translated the Sumarian text, also? This is more important to me – I hope he has.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 1:57 PM

        תֹּ֫הוּ noun masculine1Samuel 12:21 (AlbrZAW xvi (1896), 112) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness chaos (1), confusion (1), desolation (1), emptiness (1), empty space (1), formless (2), futile (2), futile things (1), meaningless (2), meaningless arguments (1), nothing (2), waste (3), waste place (2).

        IF you cannot see that this is saying that God DID NOT create the earth as in the MEANING of VAIN in Isaiah 45:18,THEN CONTINUE to believe God DID CREATE the earth as described above.

        IF IF IF anyone CARES to know the TRUTH about how the earth BECAME as described above, and as Genesis 1 verse 2 shows. the ANSWER to that IS in the Holy Bible ALSO.

         
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 2:00 PM

        תֹּ֫הוּ < Hebrew word for VAIN as written in Isaiah 45:18 This did not go through with my last post either. Apparently my postings are not meant for "others" at this time.

         
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 11:56 PM

        Yartap,et.al

        @ What you have failed to do with Isaiah 45:18 is to include the complete verse in context,……….
        Yartap, you have repeatedly told me in so many ways I am a dunce. I already know that. but if it brings you pleasure to keep saying it,go for it. I have something to say to you IF this post goes through COMPLETELY.. For some reason((s) it just will not. If it does, I will address your 2nd statement

        Let’s do this > “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void;(tohu) and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in (tohu) vain (tohu), he formed it to be inhabited…..
        WHY are the words written HE CREATED IT NOT IN VAIN? < tohu. He created it not in tohu. Well then why does the Bible say the earth WAS tohu.? Look, SCHOLARS !! I purchased a brand new automobile off the showroom floor. It "was" still in pristine condition when I loaned it out to a "friend" who wanted to impress his girlfriend. To make along story short, they both got drunk. He slid off the icy road & the car was a total wreck. Now let's put it this way. I purchased a brand new car off the showroom floor. The car was a total wreck. Get the picture? I doubt it. The universe created by God was breathtakingly beautiful. BUT something cat tuh kliz mick happend LATER. I do not know how much later this cat tuh kliz mick event happened. BUT the Holy Bible does speak of a Spiritual WAR that wrecked the universe. There's more to the story but why bother. And for you deep thinkers, don't hit me up with this know it all stuff saying I did not purchase anything it was a discharge in equity.

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 28, 2014 at 5:37 PM

        J.M. and Yartap: I can’t figure out WHERE this (below) Post is!?! So, I’m going to the Bottom of this page, and respond to J.M.’s usage of “VAIN” and “VOID” and “tohu”, in relation to the creation: please scroll down to the bottom of this page.

        ————————————————————————————————————————
        Yartap,et.al

        @ What you have failed to do with Isaiah 45:18 is to include the complete verse in context,……….
        Yartap, you have repeatedly told me in so many ways I am a dunce. I already know that. but if it brings you pleasure to keep saying it,go for it. I have something to say to you IF this post goes through COMPLETELY.. For some reason((s) it just will not. If it does, I will address your 2nd statement

        Let’s do this > “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void;(tohu) and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in (tohu) vain (tohu), he formed it to be inhabited…..

        WHY are the words written HE CREATED IT NOT IN VAIN? < tohu. He created it not in tohu. Well then why does the Bible say the earth WAS tohu.?

        Look, SCHOLARS !! I purchased a brand new automobile off the showroom floor. It "was" still in pristine condition, when I loaned it out to a "friend" who wanted to impress his girlfriend. To make along story short, they both got drunk. He slid off the icy road & the car was a total wreck. Now let's put it this way. I purchased a brand new car off the showroom floor. The car was a total wreck. Get the picture? I doubt it.

        The universe created by God was breathtakingly beautiful. BUT something cat tuh kliz mick happend LATER. I do not know how much later this cat tuh kliz mick event happened.

        BUT, the Holy Bible does speak of a Spiritual WAR that wrecked the universe. There's more to the story but why bother. And for you deep thinkers, don't hit me up with this know it all stuff saying I did not purchase anything it was a discharge in equity

        ————————————- BELOW Is My RESPONSE TO J.M.————————————

        J.M., I'm sitting here, looking at my STRONG'S CONCORDANCE, and noting that :

        "void" is #922: bohuw — to be empty, vacuity, emptiness, void. [pg/17; Hebrew / Aramaic Dictionary] —

        Then "vain" is #8267 – sheqer: [pg.148, left column] "a sham; without a cause", "deciet (ful – {ly}"; false (hood – ly); feignedly; lier, lie, lying; vain(thing), wrongfully…

        And, also, "vain' does not even appear in the Old testament, until Exodus 5:9; it's not a word that's even used in Genesis.

        And, as well, NONE of these, (above), definitions apply aptly to the creation. Yahwey did not create anything that was of negative description in Genesis 1 & 2.

        Yes, as far as a spiritual war, yes, (Dan.10:13 & 20, & Rev.12:9, Lk.10:18; Eph. 6:12, II Cor. 10:4 – 5), all depict a war reality.

        But!

        NONE of these speak of universal destruction.

        Only Rev.6:14 #975, [Greek Dictionary, Pg.1176], Isa.34:4 #5612, and II Pet. 3:10 #3089 and 3:12 #5080; describe such an event, but, ALL these descriptions are describing events that occur many millennia after the Creation.

        So, the "theory" that the "astroid belt is the remans of Lucifer's original HQ, and that Yahwey destroyed it in the war, and gave Earth to Hele ben shakar [Luicfer], is difficult, (if not impossible), to develop and establish as Scriptural by means of the Word.

        There is one other descriptive set of verses, [it took me 30 min. to find them, under the word "heavens" #8064], (Jer. 4:23 – 26).

        BUT AGAIN!

        These are in context to Yahwey's wrathful destruction of Yeru-Salem…NOT during the original Creation.

        So, the destruction of a planet and the giving Earth to Helel, is not clearly described, (altho Lk.4: 2 – 13 {esply 5 – 8}, DOES show Helel's authority here on Earth). But, no mention of a war here.

        Hope this helps!

         
      • J.M.

        January 27, 2014 at 12:31 AM

        Yartap,
        Enough of my last,at this time message posted. Not all of it, but enough for me to try & send this one. Yartap you said TODAY, January 26, “Keeping your complete thoughts from me does not help.”

        Yartap, you keep saying, We must never forget, Let us never forget, If we keep these things in mind, We must always remember,Let us remember,We must remember. & on & on & on. Why don’t you practice what you preach”??? I said TWO days ago that I am not going to try & explain ALL of my problem at once.I said this up front. WHY didn’t you say THEN, what you are saying today? You apparently do not read ALL of what I say & IF you see something I say, you immediately jump on that without reading anymore. I wonder if ALL of this will post??? BUT, when i said, Iam not going to try & explain my problem ALL at once, THAT DID GO THROUGH.

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 27, 2014 at 2:57 PM

        Sorry Yartap, I didn’t catch that last question.

        Yes, Mike HAS translated Sumerian. His classes on the Stichin issue are just that…showing the CORRECT translation, not the “tortured” one.

        Now, one point I’d like to clarify: Mike is not so much a “critic” as a Scholar, trying to educate those of us who’ve not been able to read the original. As Mike puts it: “those who haven’t stuck their heads in these languages for years, like I have”.

        Just go down the line of subjects, (left column), of his “STICHINISWRONG” page…Mike explains pretty well why the “Ancient Astronauts” issue is mute & SHOULD be dead.

        But!

        There’s MUCH more to this “E.T.” element of Science & literature.

        It is VERY IMPORTANT to understand and believe that the Bible (Old and New Testaments alike), is the MOST authoritative book of Earth’s History in existence. And, that, if it says it’s so…it IS. But, if it DOESN’T say it’s so…It’s NOT. The Scriptures are brimming over with phenomena that challenges the mind, and makes it clear that there is a sphere of reality that we just can’t see…unless we’re ALLOWED to.

        It’s NOT a “regular”, nor “normal” History of the Earth, or of the spiritual world. It IS the FINAL authority on those subjects. If you boil it all down to simplicity, Eph,6:12 & II cor. 10:3 – 5 and St. Jn.3:3 – 12, & Rev.12;9, pretty much sum up the facts: There’s another sphere of reality, where there’s beings that we cannot “fight” in the physical realm, AND, the WORD of GOD is the weapon of choice, and the Holy spirit is the power of that weapon. Learning to utilize that weapon is a lifetime effort. But! It’s the most powerful weapon system on, under, or above Earth.

        Now, I’m sure, Yartap, you know these facts, (I’m writing them, as much for those who don’t, as, for reminding those who do). Dr. Heiser is interested in developing our basic understanding of the WORD, by clarifying, or illuminating, or explaining certain FACTS that can ONLY be understood, by reading & understanding the ORIGINAL Language & it’s social & grammatical realities they were written in.

        As you’ll see, Mike’s a stickler for details & correct translation.

        I’m pretty sure, you find Mike’s materials & Papers VERY enlightening.

         
      • Yartap

        January 27, 2014 at 3:59 PM

        Greetings, Jim,

        If I may kindly state: Jim, you post so much that it is hard to keep up with you. I was lucky I found these two post by you. You have posted them in an unrelated area to the subject matter. Now, do you understand the problem I’m having?

        Now, to answer your question in understanding Isaiah 45: 18 in terms you can understand, I see.

        Jim, the car you bought off the showroom floor is the finished product. The car manufacturer (creator) received all the parts (void/ without form) the car creator formed all the parts together into a finished form (perfect) for you to inhabit or drive. Thus, the car manufacturer was not going to leave the parts vain, so the manufacturer formed the car to its finish. Now, do you understand?

        Jim, I have very limited time. I cannot read every post, let alone, find them. This is hard for me. I, too, have written a lot. My memory is not as good as others. But I try. So, if someone says that they’re just going to give a little information, I don’t have time to seek it all out, let alone, place each piece together. Help me – Brother!

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • Yartap

        January 27, 2014 at 5:05 PM

        Greetings, Christian Gains,

        I have been read Dr. Michael. It is a lot. I’m half way through. But, I have not found his translation of the “Enuma Elish.” Where can I find his translation? Thanks.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • J.M.

        January 27, 2014 at 5:21 PM

        Yartap,
        @You have posted them in an unrelated area to the subject matter. Now, do you understand the problem I’m having?

        If you read only the messages I sent to you & understood what I was saying you would not have asked the question you just asked.

        Some comments have a reply button & some don’t. Have you ever thought about that? What I try to do, when I want to send you or anyone a message is go to a message FROM you/him her that has a reply button at the bottom right hand corner in the message from you/her/him. When I click on the reply button in a message from you the message is supposed to to go to you. At least this is my understanding.The last message you sent to me does not have a reply button. I cannot help it that the messages arrive out of chronological order. I have commented about this confusion before. Also, and ONCE AGAIN, I have said repeatedly that all of my comment,at times,did not go through, post, & with even the part that did go through some words were not in the sentences. But Yartap, I ask someone else a question & you, Yartap, respond with your theory.on the question when I did not ask you to respond & now when I do ask something of you, you advise me that you are very busy & don’t have time to answer all of my questions but you do have time to answer questions I ask someone else? You have done this several times, even one time to Alfred & me too, both of us with this may blow your mind message. I tried to let you know it did blow my mind. but I did not ask you to do that. I was almost convinced at one time that the posting problems I was having had to be because of something being wrong with my computer. I read (reed) every thread & when I saw ONE thread that did not have any message from you whatsoever, I knew then it had to be something wrong with my computer. Hope what I am about to say will be of help to you in your busy schedule. If you will quit giving your theory messages to those who don’t request them you will have much more free time. I am trying to think of a way to lift some of the burdensome weight off you shoulders, at least time wise.

         
      • J.M.

        January 28, 2014 at 9:29 PM

        @ >@ >Jim, instead of scrolling DOWN to the next reply button (if that’s the right term), scroll UP to the next button, but only if a reply button is not offered.
        The next reply button of what ???

         
  36. Christian Gains

    January 26, 2014 at 12:37 PM

    Here is another VERY GOOD online, Ancient Languages teaching site:

    http://www.memraonline.com/

    Check it out….

     
  37. Christian Gains

    January 26, 2014 at 1:07 PM

    Thanks Yartab! Now, the reason that I am offering & suggesting these sites, is because we are FAR TOO ignorant of the ORIGINAL HEBREW to do much interpreting of the Old and New Testaments. For instance, are you aware that the ancient (pre-baylonian captivity) Hebrews were aware of TWO GOOD POWERS in Heaven? Dr. Heiser details the significance that that represents, in his “TWO POWERS IN HEAVEN” material, [note the Title at the top of his HOME page, in white letters].

    Also, I’d suggest, (if you’re really interested in the Historical realities of the NEW TESTAMENT TIMES, you might ck out Alfred Edersheim’s “THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS THE MESSIAH” — Dr. Edersheim sat the chair of Religion at Oxford, during the tenure of J.R.R.Toilken, and C.S. Lewis, and is an highly respected source of explaining the social & cultural, and religious realities just before, and during the life of Christ. It is EXTREMELY detailed and scholarly, (footnotes galore), and informative. for example (Jn.8:1 -11), are you aware that, in Jesus’ day, for a commoner to ignore and refuse to answer a Leader (Scribe, Pharisee, or Court official), was an EXTREME insult, (as if the commoner was saying “You’re not worthy of an answer”. So, that places a GREAT DEAL more importance to Yeshuah’s reaction to the situation described in those verses in Jn. 8 .

    Also, Yeshuah {SEEMS TO} defy the 7th Commandment. (but, review Matt. 5, verses 21 thru 48, and answer this question “Who have they “heard from old, saying…”? As you know, some of the quotes are from the 10 Commandments. But! Who GAVE those commandments? So…Yeshuah is either (daring to), or authoritative enough to, actually modify, amend, or change those cammandments!?! Because ONLY the original authority CAN change, amend, or modify a Law, therefore, Yeshuah is, {through these statements}, declaring HIMSELF as equal to Yahweh!).

    I learned this from reading and learning the DEEPER realities of the “LIFE & TIMES OF JESUS THE MESSIAH”. I hope these references help!

     
    • J.M.

      January 26, 2014 at 3:12 PM

      @ Yeshuah {SEEMS TO} defy the 7th Commandment.

      Yes, “seems to.” The offspring of those who were “finding fault” with the disciples, think pushing a button on an elevator on the 7th day is breaking the sabbath because of the “work” involved in pushing the button. Saw a while back, where “they” had some kind of electronic device to perform that laborious task in their behalf. I forget now how they got this machine to work for them but it must have been something less laborious than pushing a button.

      I have concluded that you are not going to answer my “ninth day at evening” question, & oh my, I sure don’t want to think of you as one more cherry picker of the Scriptures but I really don’t know what to think. It doesn’t matter what I think anyway. I think it’s 1st Peter 3:15 My understanding of that scripture, in pertinent part means,”always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you :I would like to know, your opinion of what that means? But, I guess I’ll never know, at least in this life. Best to you & yours.

       
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 3:15 PM

        WOW !!! ALL of that message posted !!! EVERY WORD !!! Now I am convinced. Some of my messages are not meant to be seen or read (<red)

         
    • Yartap

      January 28, 2014 at 11:46 AM

      Greetings, Christian Gains,

      I have been read Dr. Michael. It is a lot. I’m half way through. But, I have not found his translation of the “Enuma Elish.” Where can I find his translation? Thanks.

      Blessings, Yartap.

      Greetings, Christian Gains,

      I wish to thank you again for your information. I’m trying my best to absorb as much as I can. I will look and read anything. But, I am leery of scholars, because “even the elect will be deceived.” I’m even leery of my knowledge dooming me. I stand ready for correction to the truth, but I do not want my mind or others to lead me in circles. I need to gain a firm belief.

      I have always been the type to not take anybodies’ word or direction without confirmation. I really started this when I discovered a former preacher of mine picking verses and giving them new meaning or taking them out of context. I don’t allow others to tell me what I can read and what I cannot read. I am studying the books of the Bible that were rejected. No, so-called, religious authority of man will dictate to me. I only submit myself to the Word of God, the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ, and GOD. Of course, I and others cannot confirm everything. But, I and others continue to seek.

      I have found that with patience, diligence, repeated reading, open ears and mind, relying upon the Lord for guidance, and prayer things are revealed to me in His time. These are the truest methods that work for me. Some of the greatest revelations that have been given to me come from others, just like me, who express their beliefs. Just simple believers coming together to seek the Lord. I look upon it, like it is said in scripture, as children coming to God for answers. Isn’t that what we are to do?

      So, with all this said, I was drawn to your offerings about John 8:1-11 and Matthew 5:21-48. I wish to kindly share with you my understandings, which may conflict. But, I stand ready for kindly shared correction.

      In regard to John 8:1-11, you explained that it was an insult to not answer a Pharisee or scribe by a commoner. I say that Jesus was no commoner to them. They called him “Master,” (v.:4). He has also been known as a Teacher or Rabi; he was their equal, just hated by them. He had such authority to them that they brought the woman to him and they stated their case before him for judgement. This does not sound like a commoner.

      Next, we find that Jesus does render a somewhat judgement of stoning (to death by commandment) with a CONDITION: “He (one man) that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”(v.:7). Just one person had to meet the condition to start the stoning. But, due to being convicted by their own conscience they left (v.:9). We learn that all have sin within themselves; and we are reminded to not judge, so we shall not be judged, we look for mercy and seek grace.

      Continuing, we read that Jesus and the woman are left together. Now, we will learn another very important lesson. Jesus asked her, “Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?”(v.:10). And she said, “No man, Lord.” (v.:11). Notice that she did not accuse herself nor condemn herself before the Lord. This is very important. Because, we should learn, when we are finally judged in the end times before God and Christ, if we say that we are not “worthy” of his grace; then we insult and deny God’s gift of Christ’s blood shed for each’s sins and soul; and God is faithful to grant our claimed “unworthiness” into the lake of fire.

      Christian Gains, you said it seems that Jesus has defied the 7th Commandment. This is not true. He complied with the commandment, which lead to more important lessons for us. But, note that Jesus is well aware of her sin when he says “go and sin no more”;and he does not condemn her. But, why? Jesus has come NOT to condemn us, or to destroy us, nor to judge us; but rather, to teach us the correct ways and to save us. His mission is just that. Read: John 8:15-16; Luke 9:51-56; and John 3:17.

      Now, Matthew 5:21-48 is one of my pet peeves and it has been soooo misunderstood. You stated that Jesus “is either (daring to), or authoritative enough to, actually modify, amend, or change those commandments!?!” I understand that you are saying that Jesus and God are one, of the same authority, which is true and correct. But, realize that Jesus did not come to end the law or the prophets, but rather, to fulfilled the law; and he promised to not change the true law of God. I hope that you are not suggesting, that in Matthew 5: 21-48, Jesus is modifying, or amending, nor changing the law. He is not. He is EXPOUNDING upon the law to show us different ways of thinking about the law and of applying the law in others ways that we may not see or are not as straight forward as we may think.

      So, these are my thoughts and beliefs.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • Christian Gains

        January 28, 2014 at 2:32 PM

        O.K. Yartab, I’m going to TRY to respond as I read your post above. Hope I can do it with messing up!

        Well, yes, Yeshuah WAS a Rabbi. The ULTIMATE Rabbi [teacher]. But, if you note the other instances where the Sanhedrin or Pharisees, or Sadusees, deal with yeshuah, you find that their show of respect becomes more distinctly shallow and false, the further you go in Yeshuah’s ministry. But, you’re correct, they DID put on a great show. None the less, ignoring, or refusing to “recognize” them, was a GREAT insult.

        Now, as to the “He that is without sin, let him cast the first stone” statement. (again, we’re a bit handicapped, in that we “gringos” don’t understand the cultural & Scriptural times of Christ very well, and that’s why I really enjoy Professor Edersheim’s tomb — BTW, I too am leery of “sholars”, and ONLY reccomend those that I wholly trust the spiritual walk with Yeshuah).

        Now, you PROBABLY know the stringent rules for stoning, right? The fact that the accusers had to bath 7 times a day, for 7 days, and change clothes each time. THEN, and ONLY after they had done this ritual cleansing, could they be allowed to stone a culprit. These men,.(as they latter proved), were not interested in the “spirit of the Law”, but ONLY in “keeping the Law”, [as long as it benefited them, — as in this particular case, so they supposed]. Time and time again, these Religious groups, confronted Yeshuah with challenges to His authority, in such self-righteous haughtiness, that, with study, one becomes aware that they PROBABLY didn’t “get it” spiritually. Jn.3:3-11 is a PERFECT example. Nicademus was SIMPLY looking at Yeshuah’s words, in the flesh. “how can a man enter into his mothers womb and be born again?” You OBVIOUSLY DO “get it”, and that’s why you tend to simplify things down to the “simplicity of the Gospel”. As they proved, time and time again, they were not “convicted by the Holy Spirit”, but by the “letter of the Law”. And, that’s why Yeshuah ULTIMATELY condemned them, [Matt.23].

        I must admit Yartap, this is a bit of a twist that I’ve never confronted before. So, I’ve had to pray and ask the Lord, “is this correct”? I’ve gotten two answers:

        #1] Technically, in might SEEM so. #2] But, Yartap’s made a bit of a misstep.

        You’ve touched upon the sensitive nerve of whether we EVER DESERVED salvation. And, Paul answers that question unequivocally here: “For by GRACE {Gift Received At Christ’s Expense] are ye saved, through FAITH, and that (grace & faith), not of yourself, It is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast”. [Eph.2:8 – 9] Now, to check the context, just read the very first verse: “And YOU hath HE quickened who WERE DEAD in trespasses and sin.” YOU didn’t do ANYTHING to get YOU out of trouble. “…while we were YET sinners HE saved us, by the washing of REGENERATION, and the renewing of the Holy Spirit”[Rom.5:6 – 8].

        So, I, when I stand, {and I already KNOW that I won’t be standing, but be down on my face in abject humility}, I will NOT claim ANY righteousness! I DESERVED, and STILL DO, death, BUT! In HIS ultimate sacrifice, the Father, and the Son, reached out to me, and forgave me…an ULTIMATE sinner. HE paid MY “PRICE”…HE shed HIS blood for me, [Jn.15:13], and I just simply cling to that FREE GIFT for my salvation! To CLAIM ANY RIGHTEOUSNESS on my part, is to deny the value of HIS sacrifice. Paul’s ENTIRE ministry was built FIRMLY upon proving this point, and Yeshuah’s entire ministry was built upon fulfilling this truth: “For God so loved the WORLD, that HE GAVE His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believeth on Him, should not perish, but have EVERLASTING life”.[Jn.3:16; {also note Jn. 3: 17 – 18}] Your last statement in that paragraph, states that “God is faithful to grant our claimed ‘unworthiness’ into the lake of fire”, rather flies in the face of John 3:16 – 18…WHOSOEVER — BELIEVETH — SHOULD NOT PERISH — EVERLASTING LIFE. I must, therefore, disagree with you on this essential principle.

        OOPS! (I began writing the below response, before I finished reading your statement, but kept writing till I finished my thought, and THEN looked up and saw that, O.K., we’r definitely agreed on this point. Sorry if my statement below seems redundant.)

        To “LEGALISTS” it would SEEM (which is the sense that I used), that HE simply refused to obey the LAW. BUT! To “spirit led” folks, it’s obvious, (since He IS the LAW GIVER – Jn.1:1 – 3), that He’s simply being led of love and understanding, and refusing to condemn (Jn.3:17-18 again), a woman, {tho CLEARLY a “sinner”}, who’d been tricked, or conned, or used, to accuse Yeshuah. Each and every one of us, has a “thorn” in our flesh, that we struggle with, continually, and ONLY find victory, through falling at HIS feet, and leaning on HIS grace, and trusting in HIS faithfulness and strength. We DESERVE NOTHING…WE EARN NOTHING…WE SIMPLY UTTERLY MUST DEPEND on His loving forgiveness.

        O.K., as to Yeshuah’s intention in Matt.5, I’ll clarify my view. We’re both agreed the Yeshuah and God “are one”…the great “I AM that I AM”. I was not intending to insinuate that Yeshuah, in His Mountain dissertation, intended to NEGATE (in ANY sense of the word), ANY of the Law. No. What I was pointing out is that, He was subtly demonstrating His authority to His TEAM. He CERTAINLY didn’t negate, but He most assuredly amended, or tightened it up a bit. “Ye have heard it said of old: thou shalt not kill [actually “shed innocent blood / murder]; and whosoever shall shed innocent blood, shall be in danger of judgement. BUT! I say unto you…[and here’s an example] that whosoever of you be angry with his brother [probably not limited to flesh & blood kindred] without a cause shall be in danger of judgement…” (note that anger is being placed on the level of murder [possibly a shadow of Cain?]. That’s a RADICAL change for those times. He does amend, or change the Law, by adding an extra degree of responsibility…don’t even yield to anger without cause, or you’ll be guilt of shedding innocent blood, spiritually. Absalom is a fine example of that connection to the two realities: anger leading to murder.

        But, it doesn’t negate the seriousness of the LAW against shedding innocent blood/murder…Same as with the Law against adultery, HE heightens the stringency to include, (not excluding adultery), but INCLUDING “looking on a woman with lust in his heart”. and it has the same consequences. David is the prime example of lust leading to adultery AND murder.

        So Yartap, I’d say that we’re pretty closely in agreement. With just one exception — thou it’s a MAJOR exception. But, NOT (for me) a reason to shun you or not communicate with you. You cartainly know the Word, and hold it in as high respect as myself, and that alone makes you a worthy brother, and likely, a friend. hope this is helpful! God Bless you Yartap!

        BTW, I have a question for you. Have you ever been, or are, a Catholic? It REALLY doesn’t matter…I listen to, admire, and follow Al’s counsel, and consider him a fine example of a God fearing man. And, he’s a Catholic. I’m just wondering about your Religious / Spiritual journey.

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 28, 2014 at 2:41 PM

        OOPS AGAIN! I added something that is NOT part of Romans 5:8. I’ve memorized quite a lot of scripture over the years, but sometimes get mixed up…this was such a time. Rom5:8 does NOT say : “…by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit”. Sorry…didn’t catch that typo until AFTER I’d pressed “Post Comment”

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 28, 2014 at 4:15 PM

        J.M. I’m not sure where you got TOHU but it’s NOT the word “vain”. That word “vain” is 38267 [from #8266], sheker –The word “vain” is not even in the Book of Genesis, and doesn’t show up until Exodus 5:9. And, (if you study the word “sheqer” you’ll see that it also denote “sham”, “without a cause”, “deciet(ful); “false” (hood – [ly]) feignedly; lier + lie; lier; vain thing; wrongfully; NONE of these could POSSIBLY refer to the creation.

        YARTAP — Here is a link to Mike giving a translation class. You can’t give these if you can’t do it. Also, go to the ANCIENT ASTRONAUTS site, and peruse there, AND to the “The DIVINE COUNSEL” site, there’s ALOT of translating in that Dissertation.

        http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/nephilim/nephilim.htm

         
      • J.M.

        January 28, 2014 at 9:51 PM

        Yartap,
        @ Christian Gains, you said it seems that Jesus has defied the 7th Commandment. This is not true.

        Yartap, Christian Gains DID NOT say Jesus defied the 7th Commandment. Christian Gains said,THE “STATEMENT” SEEMS TO SAY – SEEMS TO SAY – SEEMS TO SAY > The STATEMENT seems to say this. Christian Gains makes it plain to me, at least me, that although the “statement seems to say this” it really DOES NOT say this. I thought I gave a fairly good explanation of “seems to” but since I am apparently the only one of the possible 2 or 3 others that “REED” EVERY MESSAGE, then it’s very understandable why your understanding of “seems to” & my understanding of seems to are a 180. Sometimes TRYING gets SO TIRING & TAXING.

         
      • Yartap

        January 29, 2014 at 12:04 PM

        Greetings, Christian Gains,

        I do appreciate your kind and thoughtful rely. Yes, we are Brothers and friends.

        I do understand what you are sayings and I concur. There is not one sin that is not unto death, and we all have sinned. Am I set up to fail by a man’s nature?

        The message I am trying to convey is that OUR OWN WORDS spoken before God and Christ can convict us to the lake of fire. This is illustrated in Matthew 25: 24-27’s parable about the “kingdom of heaven,” where the Lord gives talents to three servants (believers). The last servant, who received one talent and did not multiply the number of talents says to his Lord, “Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man (harsh; severe), reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:”(v.:24). Which is NOT true about the Lord; in other words: the servant is lying about the Lord to cover his sin. Thus, the Lord uses and repeats the servant’s own words to convict the servant, when the Lord said, “Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury (against the Lord’s law, which the Lord would not condom). (v.:25 & 26).

        C.G., I am of the belief that it take two things to get to heaven: a faithful believer and follower of Jesus Christ, and the adherence to and appliance of the Word of God (God’s law) in my daily life and works to the best of my ability. I seek righteousness unto perfection by doing and re-doing unto good, and following His law and commandments. But, we all know that it is impossible for me to achieve. “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20.

        But, I am granted righteousness through Christ. “That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through RIGHTEOUSNESS unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 5:21. “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto RIGHTEOUSNESS? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of RIGHTEOUSNESS.” Romans 6: 16-18. Through Christ’s righteousness we are made righteous before God.

        C.G., I’m of the belief to the contrary. I will wear the robe of CHRIST’S righteousness before God. This, I believe, shows my acceptance and belief in Christ. It will show my acceptance of His grace. I will not accuse nor condemn myself with my own words before God, because this will show further that I have the belief: that I am truly free from my sins by Christ’s blood and resurrection. My lack of self accusing and condemning words confirms my belief in His promise to me and others. My belief is true. My record of works by wearing Christ’s robe of righteousness and gift of grace shall show my attempt at righteousness by keeping His Word for God’s judgement. And I will truly come before God with great joyful tears and love for Him, my Savior and Redeemer, with arms reaching high to hold and kiss my Lord, showing my “want” of Him. And, I will fall down to “worship” my God.

        You said, “Your last statement in that paragraph, states that “God is faithful to grant our claimed ‘unworthiness’ into the lake of fire”, rather flies in the face of John 3:16 – 18…WHOSOEVER — BELIEVETH — SHOULD NOT PERISH — EVERLASTING LIFE. I must, therefore, disagree with you on this essential principle.” If one goes before God as his own accuser then He is faithful to uses the one’s own words to condemn him, because one does not believe in nor accepted as true, the power and authority of the Christ.

        “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the DEVILS also BELIEVE, and tremble.” James 2:19.

        As with Matthew 5, I see the use of certain words by you that give me uneasiness like “amend/amended” (add to), “tighten..up” (change focus to a set degree), “change” (make different) and “adding” (amend). These are the meanings and understanding I received from your writing. These are possibly words which can NEGATE the law, in my mind. The word I used was “expound” which means: to explain in detail; elucidate (to make clear or plain, especially by explanation and by illustration or example; clarify). I do realize that Jesus did “change” the belief in one section to bring misunderstanding/misuse back to correction with the true law (v.:43-48).

        Your Brother, Yartap.

         
      • Yartap

        January 31, 2014 at 11:34 AM

        Greetings, Christian Gains,

        I’m sorry I missed your question: “Have you ever been, or are, a Catholic?” No – I was raised in a Baptist family. But, I have sought out understanding from many religions. I look for the truth from all beliefs.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • Christian Gains

        January 31, 2014 at 1:46 PM

        O.K., and that’s what I call a good habit. My wife has a good description of our “Church”, when people ask, she simply smiles and says, we’re part of the same ekklesia that Jesus attends. TRUTH is the goal…God bless!.

         
      • Yartap

        January 31, 2014 at 5:00 PM

        Greetings, Christian Gains,

        Ha!Ha!Ha! That is GREAT! Please forward to your wife, that she is one SMART COOKIE!, if I may say so. And please tell her that I have never heard my church’s real name, until now, with her help. The “Called Out of Jesus” is a great name. I can just image the looks she gets when people hear her says, “We’re part of the same ekklesia that Jesus attends.” Then the person hearing her wonder, “Ekklesia?” – “What?” Ha!Ha!Ha! ;-))))

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
  38. Christian Gains

    January 27, 2014 at 2:58 PM

    J.M., I did not get, or see, your “the 9th day” question…please ask it again?

     
  39. J.M.

    January 27, 2014 at 6:54 PM

    @ >J.M., I did not get, or see, your “the 9th day” question…please ask it again?

    Oh my. Now I’m beginning to wonder if SOME of my posts/messages that do go through are only on my end, show up on my monitor, & my monitor only. Anyway, I posted it again on the War of A.D. 1812 thread & at this time it is the last post on that thread. Just scroll all the way down & you will see it. Thanks Christian Gains.
    P.S. I ‘ll do my best not to take up your time after this. I don’t want you upset with me like Yartap is.

     
    • Yartap

      January 28, 2014 at 1:59 AM

      Brother, I’m not upset with you. I love you!

      Please understand, I was just trying to explain my reasoning for have a hard time responding. Blessings to You!

       
      • J.M.

        January 28, 2014 at 3:08 PM

        Yartap

        @ >Please understand, I was just trying to explain my reasoning for have a hard time responding.

        Yartap, What am I, Jim, doing to cause my responses to get out of chronological order? How can I make my message appear where,in your opinion it should show up? There is a reply button in red letters in the bottom right hand side of your post that has the date of January 28,2014 at 1:59 am. I clicked on the “reply” in that message from you. NOW, what do I do IF your message DID NOT have a reply to click on, & I wanted to respond to your message, what do I do then other than go/scroll down to where it says, leave a reply & go from there? What am I doing wrong to make you send me a message that says: > Jim, you post so much that it is hard to keep up with you. I was lucky I found these two post by you. You have posted them in an unrelated area to the subject matter. Now, do you understand the problem I’m having?”
        I understand there is a problem but once again, what am I doing to cause this problem other than “posting so much?” When you,Yartap give your theory to me, are you, Yartap hinting that I am not suppose to respond to it? If so, just say No response is necessary, OR,say, please do not respond. I know what please do not respond means. I know that may be hard for you to believe, or grasp, but trust me when I say, I, Jim, KNOW,I UNDERSTAND, what, please do not respond means.
        Just give me the benefit of the doubt about that, Yartap

         
      • Yartap

        January 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM

        Greetings, Jim,

        Jim, instead of scrolling DOWN to the next reply button (if that’s the right term), scroll UP to the next button, but only if a reply button is not offered. I hope this will help.

        Jim, I’m on your side – Brother! ;-)

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
  40. J.M.

    January 28, 2014 at 5:48 PM

    To, Yartap, responding to your message on January 29 @ 4:58 pm

    @ >Jim, instead of scrolling DOWN to the next reply button (if that’s the right term), scroll UP to the next button, but only if a reply button is not offered. I hope this will help.
    I have done this too.

    @ >Jim, I’m on your side – Brother! ;-)
    What matters is, we both had better be on the right side of the of the one who is sitting on the right side of you know who?

    P.S. Anything that can be done at anytime by anybody will be done at no time by nobody (forgot the source)
    Yartap, once again, I use the Berean method to TRY & understand the scriptures. If the answer is not in the scriptures, then there is no answer except from the scholars & even they disagree with each other. From my experience, the answers ARE in the scriptures. It’s just that I haven’t found some of them YET. I do not need any of the Scholarship opinions. I do use Strong’s Concordance to help me HOPEFULLY know what a Hebrew or Greek word meant. NOW, if using Strong’s is relying on a scholarship opinion, well then there is the exception I make to my prior statement. Yartap, you made me leap for joy when you said previously, that my question has led you to search for the answer in the scriptures. Remember saying that? I said back to you, AMEN AMEN.
    Now, when I say scriptures, I mean the Old & New Testaments ONLY. and Nothing else

     
  41. J.M.

    January 28, 2014 at 6:36 PM

    @ >J.M. I’m not sure where you got TOHU but it’s NOT the word “vain”. J.M. I’m not sure where you got TOHU but it’s NOT the word “vain”.

    If you will, see how the words, “without form and void” written in Genesis 1:2 are defined by Strong’s Concordance. Then go to the VAIN word in Isaiah 45:18 & see how the word vain is defined. I said what I did by memory. My memory is subject to being mistaken. BUT IF my memory serves me correctly, VAIN is defined the same way as without form & void in that both are, & VAIN is showing something “out of order” just to put it mildly. Once again, I TRY not to strain at gnats & swallow scholarship opinions. IF I wanted to follow that route, I would just try to find the scholar who would agree with me. ONCE AGAIN & for the THIRD time I’m telling you Christian Gains & EVERYONE ELSE that when The Eternal God created the heavens & the earth his creation WAS BREATHTAKINGLY BEAUTIFUL !!!! HOWEVER, I ALSO SAID IT DID NOT STAY THAT WAY. SOMETHING HAPPENED THAT CHANGED THIS. I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. If anyone wants to think of their Creator as a creator who creates things in CONFUSED LUMPS, then to me, this is the god of confusion. STILL, I always stand to be corrected. BUT the correction MUST BE SENSIBLE. IT MUST make sense. I sure ask a lot, don’t I. < downward slant. it is a statement, not a question.

     

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