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A NON-501(c)3 Church

11 Jan

Pastor Eric Philpot Cross Life Church [courtesy Google Images]

Pastor Eric Philpot
Cross Life Church
[courtesy Google Images]

In response to an earlier post (“WWJD”) on this blog, one of my readers wrote the following reply to someone else’s comment:

“@ > ‘tax-exempted entities’, …”

“IF IF IF you mean those 501 C3 type v. “NON 501 C3 or whatever the number is, churches, the only difference is just that, nothing else. I can go to either & get the same B.S. sermons. And, I say this because I have visited both types. Maybe I misunderstood your comment, if so, I apologize.”

Here’s my reply:

You apparently believe that all Christian churches deliver nothing but B.S. sermons.  There’s a lot of truth to that, but it’s not entirely true.  I attend a non-501(c)3 church each Sunday afternoon.  The pastor is Eric Philpot, a former infantry captain in the U.S. Army.

I’ve attended his “Cross Life Church” for about four months.  The meetings are held at a local hotel conference room, and typically attract an audience of 25 to 50 people.

Pastor Philpot and his wife pay to rent the conference room each week out of their own savings.   Sometimes they pay for some food that’s made available at no cost to the audience after the sermon.   In the four months that I’ve attended this church, Pastor Philpot hasn’t once asked for the audience to contribute a nickel to pay for the room or the food—and he’s not a rich man.  He’s not in it for the money.

He usually speaks for about 45 minutes.  When he’s done, virtually everyone in the room wishes he’d speak longer.  I’ve never once been bored by his sermons.  Most of the time his sermons seem directed at me.  I expect other have the same reaction.

I used to attend a Bible study group near Utopia, Texas that I deeply enjoyed.  Other than, I’ve attended a number of different churches over the years and they all bored me flat—except for Pastor Eric’s Cross Life Church.

Church is no longer a chore.  I can’t wait to attend the next service.  Those services are usually the highlight of my week.

I don’t always agree with his theology, but he’s at least 25 years younger than I am, and I expect that his understanding may grow somewhat more like my own over the coming years.  Or, perhaps my theology will change to become more like his.  But, despite occasional theological disagreements, I’m so amazed by the man’s passion, capacity to communicate, and commitment to telling truth no matter what, that I can’t help but be delighted by the blessing of having found this church.

If the world holds together for another 20 years, I won’t be surprised to see Pastor Eric Philpot recognized as one of America’s finest clergymen.

Below, is a link to a video of the sermon he delivered last Sunday (January 5th, A.D. 2014).  It may the strongest sermon I’ve heard from Pastor Eric.  I won’t say that the video conveys the same power as the actual sermon, but it’s close. There were a couple of moments that brought tears to my eyes.  But if last week’s sermon was a little stronger than some, it wasn’t otherwise unusual.  The man’s capacity for honesty and delivering sermons is remarkable, even astonishing.  His sermons are typically delivered without benefit or script or notes.  He’s not reading his sermon.  He may be simply speaking from memory, but I think there’s more to it.  I think the Good LORD gives Pastor Eric at least some of the words he speaks each week.

The video is 56 minutes long.  The sound stops after the sermon ends at about 46:30 minutes, but the video continues for another ten minutes.  I presume that most of my readers won’t want to devote 46 minutes to listening to last week’s sermon.  But I hope that some of you will listen.  I hope, especially, that the man who condemned all church sermons as “B.S.” will listen to this sermon and let me know if he also finds Pastor Eric’s sermon to be disappointing.

If he is disappointed by Pastor Eric, all I can say is that his standards for sermons must be much higher than my own.

I’ve listened critically to Pastor Eric for several months.  I came to this church expecting more B.S.  My expectations were unfulfilled.  After about 3 sermons, I began to wonder if Pastor Eric was “for real”.  Today, I’m convinced that “something special” happens at his church.

I’d be glad if just one sermon per month seemed to be a “spiritual” experience.  But, for me, every one of Pastor Philpot’s sermons is a spiritual experience.

Every sermon has struck me as incredibly honest, insightful and applicable to modern life.  This man amazes me.  I don’t claim that he is, in fact, a prophet, but he is far more than an ordinary preacher.

Listen to the subjects he talks about in the following sermon:  betrayal by our own government, the New World Order, homosexuality, the loss of American sovereignty, and the list goes on.  I doubt that you can find more than one minister in ten who would touch all of these politically-incorrect topics in a dozen sermons.  Pastor Eric touches them all in one sermon.

Ohh—and, again, this is a non-501(c)3 church.

After the sermons, a dozen or twenty of us will meet in the hotel restaurant, have dinner and enjoy some of the most wonderful conversations I’ve ever had.  There are intelligent, honest, open, sincere people in this church audience and when they start to communicate, we share insight, intellect, truth and humor.  I leave for church at 4:30 PM each Sunday.  I don’t get home until about 11:00 PM.  I spend at least 5 hours in that church and with the church members every Sunday, and the only reason any of us leave is that we’re finally too tired to continue talking.

I wish to God that I’d found a church like this 40 years ago. It would’ve changed my life for the better long before I became a senior citizen.

The point to all of this article is that, however unlikely it may be that we’ll find a truly “good” church these days, they’re out there.  They do exist; they can be found.

Here’s the video.

If you happen to be in Dallas area, and you want more info on Pastor Philpott’s Cross Life Church, look here:   http://crosslifefw.org/Contacts

 
190 Comments

Posted by on January 11, 2014 in 501(c)3 Churches, Bible, Christianity, Values, Video

 

Tags: , ,

190 responses to “A NON-501(c)3 Church

  1. Jack

    January 11, 2014 at 4:13 PM

    There’s no volume to it.

     
    • J.M.

      January 11, 2014 at 8:52 PM

      @ There’s no volume to it.
      Same here. Maybe it’s not meant for us to hear. But,I have another set of speakers somewhere. Maybe that will make a difference. His smile has me hooked & I AM going to hear his message one way or the other.

       
    • Adask

      January 12, 2014 at 2:11 AM

      The sound works for me. I just clicked on the video and the sound is there.

       
      • J.M.

        January 13, 2014 at 2:30 PM

        @The sound works for me.
        Same here,but the volume was so weak/low that I could barely “hear” it with everything turned up to the max. I think this is what Jack was saying too. There was sound, but no volume to the sound.

         
  2. cynthia

    January 11, 2014 at 4:55 PM

    all I can sais, finally there is some real “hope”! (smile)
    definitely looking forward to more from this living man!

     
  3. Peg-Powers

    January 11, 2014 at 6:34 PM

    Eventually Pastor Phillpot should be preaching to a thousand hungry souls in Texas. Just give it time.

    May I recommend one other fantastic messenger; just take a look and a listen: Pastor JEFF ARNOLD, pentecostal preacher —— on YouTube. Yes folks, we need the message, but we also need the power of our Father flowing through our lives.

     
  4. J.M.

    January 11, 2014 at 8:35 PM

    @ You apparently believe that all Christian churches deliver nothing but B.S. sermons.
    There’s a lot of truth to that, but it’s not entirely true.

    You are so right.My comment was unfair and both ignorant & stupid. I should have said, The sermons are about 99% the same.But, this was my experience in the difference between the two.Truth is, to me, that which we understand to be truth I believe EVERY Church has “some truth” & proclaims same. I think I can safely say that most “christian churches” will say I am 99% wrong about what I believe is truth & they would say this because they are trying to be nice. I’m beginning to think they are right. I apologize for my comment that prompted you to bring it up for discussion. Once again, my comment was unfair, ignorant AND stupid.

    @ Most of the time his sermons seem directed at me.
    Out of all the churches I have attended, ONE of them had the same effect on me. This is good tho, I think, because it makes us try harder. The Pastor died & that church went downhill afterwards.
    I just now see or saw where you have posted a link for his Sermons. Oh, I am so happy he does not say or accept being called “Reverend.” I like Pastor, That is the Title the Pastor who made me squirm used,i.e., Pastor.

     
    • KD

      January 12, 2014 at 1:32 AM

      When “reverend” is a title that only God should have. See Psalm 111:9.

       
      • J.M.

        January 12, 2014 at 3:34 AM

        KD
        @ When “reverend” is a title that only God should have. See Psalm 111:9

        Exactly !!! AND also, Holy, AND also, Father. AND yet, there is a church where the “leader” is addressed as, Holy Father. A flesh & blood mortal, called The Holy Father ??? And, Bless me Father, WHY, because, I HAVE SINNED. It’s not forgive me for I have sinned, it’s BLESS ME, give me a blessing. I wonder if he/she commits a bigger sin if he/she will receive a bigger blessing ??? There are degrees of sin. Who did Jesus say was guilty of the greater sin ??? This tells me that there are different degrees of sins (transgressions). As donmako says, hit me up with yer thoughts

         
      • Yartap

        January 12, 2014 at 2:31 PM

        Greetings, Jim,

        It is us, who sometimes describe and believe in “degrees of sin.” But, there is not degrees of punishment, for there is not a sin that is not brought unto death. What we consider as minor sins may be the hardest to rid ourselves of. I’m working on that in my life.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
    • J.M.

      January 12, 2014 at 3:02 AM

      P.S. I still believe there are not any stupid questions,but there are stupid responses/answers. My comment re: there being no difference in 501(c)3 & non 501(c)3 is proof.
      If I had been present, I would have probably been told to hold back on my Amen responses. Pastor Eric is so humble, kind, & compassionate, & straightforward. I laughed out of joy & his delivery also brought tears to my eyes from the uplifting. How refreshing.

       
      • shaughn niland

        January 13, 2014 at 8:05 PM

        As another “member” (though I have never been called that) of Cross Life Church, yes, Pastor Eric is all those things and more!

         
      • J.M.

        January 17, 2014 at 10:51 PM

        @ > P.S. I still believe there are not any stupid questions,but there are stupid responses/answers.
        Live & learn.
        Yes there are stupid questions. I just asked Christians Gains a stupid question on another thread.

         
  5. Shofar

    January 12, 2014 at 2:25 AM

    I listened to the 9-1-13 sermon, ‘God’s View on Homosexuality’. It was right on describing the normalization of homosexuality as a symptom of a nation that has rejected God, and the failure of Christians to teach and preach the truth from God’s Word and ‘God’s View on Homosexuality.’ I hope to listen to the other sermons from this servant of God.

     
  6. Adrian

    January 12, 2014 at 4:08 PM

    If GOD helps those who help themselves,why do you need GOD,s help for anyway.
    The best help comes from within thru knowledge and a good grip on reality.
    The Globalists promote TRUST IT GOD so do corporate churches.
    The first corporation was VATICAN.
    GOD,JOHN DOE ,etc…

     
    • J.M.

      January 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

      Adrian,
      @ > If GOD helps those who help themselves,why do you need GOD,s help for anyway.

      I will presume your statement is a question. The answer is,because he helps me & I need his help.It seems to be a never ending process but I don’t think I’ll ever get to the point where I no longer need his help. I do not know how others will respond to your comment. I am only speaking for myself, with his,God’s help.

       
  7. J.M.

    January 12, 2014 at 4:48 PM

    Yartap,Greetings to you too
    John 19:11 “Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”
    What does this mean,in your opinion?

     
  8. harrytapp

    January 12, 2014 at 10:52 PM

    1 John 5:16-17
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    16 If anyone sees his brother [a]committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and [b]God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

     
    • J.M.

      January 13, 2014 at 12:52 AM

      harrytapp,
      @ > All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

      Way to go Bro. People,lately, are talking about the “Mark of the Beast.” I think IF they knew about the “Mark of God” they would understand better what this “Beast Mark” is,as Satan counterfeits EVERYTHING “God” does. Are you familiar with the “Mark of God” as IS in the Bible, dear one? If, so,as donmako would say, hit me up with yer thoughts.

       
      • Yartap

        January 13, 2014 at 1:39 AM

        Here you go Jim….

        Where are the marks “in their foreheads” for the believers of God? Read Rev. 14:1, “having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.”; Rev. 3: 12, “and I (God) will write upon him my new name.”; Rev. 7: 3, “till we (angels) have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”

        Blessing, Yartap.

         
      • Adask

        January 13, 2014 at 3:09 AM

        The “Mark of God” you refer to MIGHT be the “sign” found in Exodus 31:16-17:

        “Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”

        Is that “sign” the “Mark of God” you refer to? Or do you mean something else?

         
      • KD

        January 14, 2014 at 5:19 AM

        The entire Old Testament Law was nailed to the cross (Colossians 2, Heb. 9-10; et al.). We are not under any part of the Old Law. 9 of the 10 commandments were brought over into the New Testament. The first day of the week us not the sabbath

         
      • Yartap

        January 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM

        Greeting Alfred,

        As I understand your offered verse, Exodus 31: 16-17, the children of God will keep and observe the Sabbath and “IT” (keeping and observing the Sabbath) will be a SIGN between God and His people, forever. I do consider this “sign” to be one of the ways of recognizing God’s people; but I lean more to the understanding that the meaning has more of a flavor in being like adhering to a contract or covenant. These verses do not deal with the part about “in their foreheads” (belief).

        But, all in all, you are exactly RIGHT. This is a sign or seal of His people; where as a mark is a sign of the beast’s people. Both, the sign and the mark have to do with contracts. Look at these verses….

        Where are the marks “in their foreheads” for the believers of God? Read Rev. 14:1, “having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.”; Rev. 3: 12, “and I (God) will write upon him my new name.”; Rev. 7: 3, “till we (angels) have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”

        Plus, brother Jim (J.M.; below) Has hit the nail on the head more closely with his offered verse, Deuteronomy 6: 8, (which I use) to show “for a sign (mark) upon thine HAND, and they shall be as FRONTLETS (foreheads) between thine eyes.” This verse corresponds more closely with Revelation 13: 16’s wording about the beast’s mark.

        Look for my theory of what the mark of the beast is, offer soon below.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • Yartap

        January 14, 2014 at 2:19 PM

        Greetings, KD,

        The New Testament cannot stand without the Old Testament and vice a versa. Without the OT, the NT has no meaning. Jesus said that he did not come to do away with the Law, but rather, to fulfill the Law, and that the Law will not pass away until ALL is accomplished, Matt. 5:17-18.

        Kindly speaking, you have misread Colossians 2. The phrase, “nailed to the cross,” means that the sins of man that are committed against the Law are forgiven. Remember, the Word of God was made flesh (Jesus), John 1: 1&14; and the Word (Jesus Christ) was nailed to the cross for those of the believing spirits of man.

        Paul’s phrase, “ye are not under the law, but under grace,” means that if we are with/of the spirit of Christ, then we will live the given freely grace of life with joy, peace, goodness, faith, which there IS NO LAW against such (joy, peace, etc.). Theses are the things which are not “under the Law.” But the Law still stands for those who will not continue in goodness. Read Galatians 6: 16-26 and please pay close attention to verse 18-23.

        Further, if we love God and Jesus, we will keep His commandments, John 14:15. In Revelation 11: 19, we find the “ark (contains God’s Law) of the covenant (testament)” in God’s temple in heaven.

        KD, I carry forward the sabbath. So can you.

        Blessings to you, Yartap.

         
      • KD

        January 14, 2014 at 4:11 PM

        The Law was written for our learning (Rom. 15), but as a law it was nailed to the cross (Heb.9:15-17; Gal. 3:19-25; Gal. 5:4-18). Pay close attention to Galatians 5:1-4, “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” Read also Hebrews chapters 7-10.

         
      • Yartap

        January 14, 2014 at 10:51 PM

        Greetings again, KD,

        Read Galatians 2: 16-21, verse 17-18, “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid! For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a TRANSGRESSOR.”

        A “transgressor” of what? The law still stands for the sinner, but not the faithful. The faithful do not violate the law, thus are “not under the law.”

        Verse 19, “For I THROUGH the LAW am DEAD to the LAW, that I might live unto GOD.”

        Now, read and re-read, over and over again, one of the points of the New Covenant in Hebrews 8: 10:

        “I will put my LAWS into their mind, and write THEM (laws) in their hearts:”.

        So, ask yourself: If you are not under the law and the law was nailed to the cross, then why is God having Jesus placing and writing the laws in your mind and heart?

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • KD

        January 15, 2014 at 4:54 AM

        Read Galatians 6

         
  9. donmako

    January 13, 2014 at 8:57 AM

    Greetings to all in the name of our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus…
    and espesally brother J.M. writting you here cause the older posts fell off… sooo sorry for the late respose againg this writing on me phone is for the birds. I wrote ya back about 3 really good inspired messages but each time they gor messed up. That and was in the middle of moving. Plus werk and being a father of 3 boys. Im proud to say im in such high demand… my phone usually gets buggyboo when the text gets rollin along and i gotta correct something. So ill hit post and continue.

     
    • J.M.

      January 13, 2014 at 2:43 PM

      .@ I wrote ya back about 3 really good inspired messages but each time they gor messed up.

      I don’t think this is a just a coincidence either. Isn’t it rather odd that when the subject matter of a thread is about what we are discussing, these things happen? I post messages that show up in italics when I did not put anything in italics & on top of that, only part of the message posted. I think I know why this happens. I think you do too.

       
      • J.M.

        January 14, 2014 at 5:23 AM

        @ I wrote ya back about 3 really good inspired messages but each time they gor messed up.
        The Prince of the power of the air is at work,jus doin his job too. Too many strange things are happening on my end, and I mean too many

         
  10. donmako

    January 13, 2014 at 9:06 AM

    Ive been an avid reader of Als topics and all the comments at the end. Since being made aware of this blog ive really sunk alotta time into here and its really become a passion that i feel the Lord has lead me to. God bless… it is the glory of god to conceal a thing and the honor and duty of kings to search it out. Thats why we cant THE whole truth. We only get snippits here and there. We need to pray for dicearnment and the streangth

     
  11. donmako

    January 13, 2014 at 9:12 AM

    …… and pray for Gods leadership to keep us on the path and to always seek the truth… thats the firstplace i send ppl who are lost. If i can get them to want truth, thats a huge step closer to Jesus. I find that my studdies have for real taken me all over the place for that knowledge of the whole truth… weve touched on somma those topics….: angels n demons nephilim motb babilon

     
  12. donmako

    January 13, 2014 at 9:20 AM

    Yeah sorry again. I dont have to much patience for techhology. I should have the net on here sonetime this week… in the meantime. Please hit me up donmako21@gmail when 2 or more are gathered in His Name. Its such and honor and blessing to serve His will

     
    • J.M.

      January 13, 2014 at 12:03 PM

      donmako,
      @ > Please hit me up ….
      You betcha !!!! People like you, light up my life. Sad to say, people like you are like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

       
      • J.M.

        January 13, 2014 at 9:37 PM

        Correction, again,
        IS, like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Not, ARE. I was thinking two thoughts when I typed those words. I was also thinking, people like you are more scarce than hen’s teeth. I R sorry. for misusing the King’s English.

         
  13. J.M.

    January 13, 2014 at 11:39 AM

    @ Is that “sign” the “Mark of God” you refer to? Or do you mean something else?

    The scripture you referred to is the key when placed with the last sentence written below.

    The Mark of God I am referring to follows;

    (Deuteronomy 6:1-8).” Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the LORD your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them… You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

    A modern day version of this scripture & for example, A Republic if you can keep it ( Knowing of course what comprised THAT Republic. The reason it was not kept is because of Deuteronomy 6: 1-8 being swept under the rug like most of The Eternal God’s teachings.

     
    • J.M.

      January 13, 2014 at 11:42 AM

      Correction
      The scripture you referred to is the key when placed with the last sentence written below in Deut 6: 1-8

       
  14. donmako

    January 13, 2014 at 12:04 PM

    A not too long vid on that subject matter.
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AsxUBlhJ72Y

     
    • Yartap

      January 13, 2014 at 5:38 PM

      Greetings donmako,

      I like it very much, thank you brother. I have written my thoughts below. Please give to me your thoughts.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
  15. J.M.

    January 13, 2014 at 2:11 PM

    You shall bind them as a “sign on your hand,” and they shall be as “frontlets between your eyes ” (Thoughts & Actions)
    Same as with having the Mark of the Beast,= thoughts & actions but in reverse of God’s instructions about what our thoughts & actions must be. It would be easier to understand the scriptures pertaining to the “days of/in the week” IF they were not changed to “NAMES” e.g. Monday= day of the Moon, Saturday = day of Saturn, Sunday,= day of the Sun. Satan has ALL the bases covered. So, anyone could rightly ask,e.g. What is the difference in changing from worshiping Saturn to worshiping the Sun other than switching to another object,star,planet,etc.??
    I know this is a weak explanation re: the days of the week being changed to NAMES, but Satan had a reason for inspiring this to be done too !!!

     
  16. Adrian

    January 13, 2014 at 2:44 PM

    All forms of religion are fake.Any scripture promotes ignorance and sucks on suckers.
    GOD=BEAST an utopian cocept.
    Reality is where humanity belongs.
    Man is the mesure of all things.Man gives meaning to reality.
    Get out of fairy land and come into reality!

     
    • J.M.

      January 13, 2014 at 3:54 PM

      @ >Get out of fairy land and come into reality!
      On second thought, I think you are right in what you say, I hope you will learn to practice what you preach & start letting your talk walk,i.e., Get out of fairy land and come into reality!

       
    • donmako

      January 13, 2014 at 7:14 PM

      You are clearly missled by the worlds reasoning…. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDqrSTCcmA thats a good one
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8DDIe_2cHM thats for evilution
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZsZLDWWZMs be confident in Gods Word

       
      • J.M.

        January 13, 2014 at 10:19 PM

        donmako
        @ >You are clearly missled by the worlds reasoning…
        Is this statement meant for me???
        Sometimes my comments get out of chronological order & seem to contradict each other. The second message I sent to Adrian appears “before” the first one. I hope your comment does not apply to me. If it does, it’s because of a misunderstanding.Thank you for the links you give. I do make use of them. Just keep hitting me up with yer thoughts. I am going to try & send you an E-Mail later. BUT, isn’t there something else that needs to be added to the e-mail address you gave? donmako21@gmail < this does not seem to be complete, or I'm doing something wrong. About all I know about a computer is how to turn it on & off.

         
  17. J.M.

    January 13, 2014 at 3:37 PM

    @Any scripture promotes ignorance and sucks on suckers.

    Really ?? I think you meant to say stupidity, not ignorance & I am presuming you mean any scripture in the Holy Bible. I try to communicate with people on their level. I am no where near the level of people like Alfred,Pat Fields.Christian Gains,et.al But I think or at least hope I am a tad-bit above yours. I will bring myself down to your level for communication purposes only by saying your comment SUCKS.

    @ > Get out of fairy land and come into reality!
    No, YOU GET REAL !!!

     
  18. Yartap

    January 13, 2014 at 5:40 PM

    – THE MARK OF THE BEAST –

    Greetings to All,

    Here is my theory upon the subject of what is called the “mark of the beast.” First let’s dissect the main wording given in Revelation 13: 18 which basically reads…..

    To understand who/what the beast is, let a wise man “COUNT the NUMBER of the beast: for IT (the number) is the number of a man; and his (the man’s) number is Six hundred threescore and six (666).” [Emphasis Mine; Note: I have capitalized the words: “count,” “number” and “it”, and many others to follow.].

    The word, “count,” used in Rev. 13: 18, is translated in the Wycliff and Geneva bibles as “acount” or as we spell it, “account.” So, we are to account this “number” of the man to derive what this NUMBER of the beast is. The use of the word, “acount” or account means: a record of events or an accounting of something? We are not sure which it is. But, I am of the belief, that this “number” represents something of substance and/or material, as we will see.

    The word, “number,” as used in the verse, is intriguing and a mystery. If we assume the number to be of a material nature, then we are to account this number, like accounting of property, a business, children or something of substance. What also makes the verse a mystery, is this question: Does this, number of the beast and the number of a man, make the beast and man the same? In other words, is the man and beast the same in one? The answer is no.

    The use of the word, “it,” as used in the verse, only refers back to the beast’s number to tell the reader that the beast’s number is related or the same (“it is”) as the man’s number. The verse is only saying that the numbers are related/alike as the same number, and that the man and beast are not the same or related except by only sharing the same number. This wording confuses readers to think that the beast is this man spoken of, which it is not saying.

    So, what is the substance of the number? Can the same accounted number be found in other scriptures? The answer is Yes – It can be found.

    “Now the weight of the gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six (666) talents of gold.”, 1 Kings 10: 14 (also 2 Chron. 9: 13).

    These are the events of 1 Kings chapter 10, “And all the earth sought to Solomon, to hear his wisdom (1 Kings 10: 24);” “[A]nd brought every man his present, vessels of silver, and vessels of gold, … , a rate year by year. (1 Kings 10:25).” “This made king Solomon exceed all the kings of the earth for riches and wisdom (1 Kings 10: 23).”

    Solomon is the man referred to in Rev. 13:18 in the phrase, “the number of a man;” and the “acount” of the number is by the weight of TALENTS (money) of GOLD. So now, with Solomon’s accounted number and the beast’s accounted number (or “it”) being the same accounted value of number,666; we can relate and understand the beast’s NUMBER as being a type of money (gold talents) or a monetary system (if I may). It must be noted that the Geneva Bible’s side note on Rev. 13: 18 speaks of “denominations,” as like money; thou, it’s meaning is hard to understand.

    Now armed with this theoretical knowledge, that the beast’s number is a substantive monetary system. Let’s return to the whole story of events found in Revelation 13.

    Verse 1, the beast comes into existence, “having seven heads (continents) and ten horns (Satan’s control), and upon his horns ten crowns (governments), and upon his (beast) heads the name of blasphemy (evil governments).

    Verse 2, “and the dragon (“old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,” Rev. 12: 9) gave to “him (beast) his (Satan’s) power and his (beast) seat, and great authority.”

    Verse 3, one of the beast’s heads is “wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed;”. In order for a monetary system to be evil, it must include unlawful and unjust USURY. I understand this to mean that the beast’s usury monetary system went out of existence for a while, but returned. “[A]nd all the world wondered (desired) after the beast.”

    This may/could be the time in history that, in 1275, Edward I (Longshanks) ended usury and expelled the Jews in 1287; but in 1656, Oliver Cromwell removed the law expelling the Jews for their return to England. Thus, a mortal wound (ending usury) and a revival (bring back to life).

    Verse 4, after the return of the beast’s wounded head (end of usury), “And they (the people) worshipped the dragon (Devil),” and “worshipped the beast (evil monetary system).” The people believe in and love the borrowing of money.

    Verse 5, “and power was given unto him (the beast) to CONTINUE forty and two months.” (3 & ½ yrs.). This time frame could possible cause my theory to be invalid. But, the return of breast’s usury to England in time is unsure until the next change (another beast), as we will see.

    Verse 6, the “blasphemy” is the use of the power from the a monetary system’s use of USURY and its control to remove all men from God, which is evil and sinful.

    Verse 7 & 8, the beast’s (monetary system’s) power is over ALL in the world. And ALL “shall worship (believe) him (the beast),” who are not in the book of life.

    Skipping to Verse 10, this is a reminder of God’s promise that the Devil, who captures and kills with a sword, will be captured and killed with a sword. With patience and faith, we will survive the beast.

    Verse 11, “another beast” appears with “two horns (Satan’s control).” This I believe is the starting of the central banking monetary system.

    After the ending of usury in England, in 1694, king William II of Orange (of William and Mary) allowed the establishment of the Bank of England under a monetary system backed by gold and silver, which spread its influence all around the world. Banks of the like, would eventually evolve into great central banks all around the world. And all should know about the creation of the United States Federal Reserve System in 1913, which has, today, the power to create money out of thin air (a miracle) and backed by nothing but American’s slavery to debt; and stands as today’s world reserve currency maker for the world. All these banks started out with gold and silver backed currency, but over time they have changed to a pure fiat currency.

    In today’s world, there exist 187 central banks. But, a great majority of these banks are mingled by/with the same owners; and with the fall of many middle eastern countries, recently, there now only exist the mingled central banks and three other central banks in the world.

    Verse 12, this new beast “exerciseth (has) ALL the power of the first beast” and caused all the people of earth “to worship the first beast,”. The belief in strong and smaller local banks as the front line against men for the Evil that controls the central banks.

    Please note, that this new beast does not have crowns (governments) upon its horns (Satan’s control). Thus a new era of control, as we will see.

    Verse 14, “And deceiveth them” (men of the earth) “by the means of those miracles” (money creation, loans, bonds, markets) “in the sight of the (first) beast” (smaller banks relinquish authority to central bank). Men make banks in the “image to (of) the (first) beast” to give the illusion of being local, safe, financially strong and responsible to men’s needs. We, also, find out that the first beast was “wound by a sword,” which means wounded by “war and/or judicial punishment,” according to Strong’s Concordance. (Also refer back to verse 10, above, for its use of the phrase, “kills with a sword.” This gives meaning to Satan’s control over governments and God’s final control.)

    Verse 15, “And he (second beast) had power (authority and funding) to give life (creation, support) unto the image of the (first) beast,” (image of real monetary backing; the image is false). Further the verse says that those who do not worship the “image of the beast should be killed (destroyed).” This is meaning for “wars and rumors of wars” in the minds of men. The beast does not like Islamic Shari’a Law nor God’s (ignored) Law which outlaws unjust and unlawful usury.

    Verse 16, all people will receive a “mark in their RIGHT HAND” (a VOLUNTARY contractual pledge of/for a loan at interest) “OR in their FOREHEADS:” (belief in and use of unlawful personal loans at interest with others): ….. Continued to verse 17.

    This “mark in their right hand” signifies a contractual agreement (deceptive; possibly unknown by a party) ; “OR” the known belief of evil in their minds. This is just like God’s agreement with the Israelites, where He “binds them for a sign upon thine (their) HAND, and they shall be as FRONTLETS (forehead, i.e. “in their foreheads”) between thine eyes.” Deuteronomy 6:8. This verse demonstrates and relates the concept of the “hand” and the “forehead” meanings.

    Verse 17, “And that no man might buy or sell, save (except) he that had the mark (received loan funds), or the name (authority of control over commerce; as “in the name of the beast”) of the beast, or the number (substance, gold, silver, money, debt money, bonds, paper assets, fiat money) of his name (authority, e.g. government backed Federal Reserve Notes, etc.).”

    With these Verses, it must be noted that the phrase, “in their foreheads,” as read in verse 16; is also used by God to distinguish His people by writing the Father’s name (“sealed”) in their foreheads of the believers, just like the beast uses the “mark” to distinguish his followers and believers. Read: Revelation 3:12, 7:3, and 14:1.

    Strong’s Concordance defines “mark” (G: 5480) in very basic and very narrow terms as follows: “a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue): – graven, mark.”

    This definition has lead many to literally believe that the mark is some kind of physical TATTOO placed upon one’s body to indicate a “badge of servitude” to the Devil’s beast. I do not take the “mark” in a literal sense. But rather, I submit to you that the “mark” could be a VOLUNTARY pledge of some sort, known or unknown of evil deception. This can be interpreted as one who places his voluntary personal mark or signature upon a loan document and/or government document. AND/Or the “mark” could be likened to an animal, who marks his territory by urinating upon the ground to leave his scent or claim, also called the “marking of a beast.” This is where, I suspect, the “called” title of the subject comes from, because no where in the verses will you find the phrase, “marking of the beast” or “the mark of the beast.” But, this is not to devalue the importance of the titled phrase, because it does describe a claim on property by the beast, just as a loan is back by a borrower with his pledge of collateral (property of value) to insure repayment to the lender.

    We and Satan know from scripture that the WAY to destruction is WIDE for MANY and NARROW is the way, which leads to LIFE for a FEW, Matthew 7: 13. So, Satan is guaranteed an army of his believers to hinder, scoff, out vote, and shake the fibers of the Lord’s few believers’ souls.

    We and Satan know from scripture this fact: The LOVE of money is the ROOT of ALL evil, 1 Timothy 6: 10. If this “LOVE” is the ROOT of All sin, then would the Devil create a beast to control the world’s monetary system? How many people know and believe that loaning money or anything to a brethren at interest is a sin? Does the Devil see this attack upon a man’s LOVE and NEED of money as the easiest route to even gain God’s believers? I believe that the control and misuse of a monetary system WOULD BE Satan’s main destructive tool against the world.

    This is a grave problem for the believers of God and Christ that need a medium of exchange that will keep them from the sin of unlawful usury, money, and/or savings. But, there are ways around the sin of an unlawful monetary system. One must seek them and the Lord God, Almighty.

    Please, to all; give me your thoughts.

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • donmako

      January 13, 2014 at 7:02 PM

      Greetings in jesus name. In only having one shot to get this right i am moved by the holy spirit to consider all these as possible… i take it very seriously. I know that our God does not roll dice and there is no chance/coincidences. Transhumanism. Not obeying Gods commandments. And i believe texhnology to a degree as well are marks of the beast. There is mention of soul stealing/catchin rings mentioned in the bible. Ive been trying to find it. I think its in cronicles. God bless this blog and all those in Christ Jesus.

       
    • Adask

      January 13, 2014 at 7:47 PM

      Some think the “beast” may be the Catholic Church. They claim the Catholic Church “died” in A.D. 1798-Napoleon captured Pope Pius VI. In A.D.1799, that Pope died in Napoleon’s custody. The Pope’s capture and death were deemed by some to be a mortal blow to the Catholic Church. When the next Pope was elected,however, the Catholic Church was allegedly “reborn” and brought back to life.

      Thus, the Catholic Church was alive, died, and then came back to life in a manner similar to Revelation 13:3.

       
      • J.M.

        January 16, 2014 at 7:05 AM

        Adask
        @ > January 13, 2014 at 3:09 AM
        Timmy came up with, “stamp of approval” documents,which I call TODAY, & e.g. driver license, proof of insurance, S.S.N etc.etc.etc.I firmly believe the day is coming when we will be asked for the “updated” stamp of approval documents to be able to buy & sell. So, in addition to the “Mark of God” v. “Mark of the Beast,” our Stamp of approval documents will be The Holy Scriptures which we can carry in our right hand or we can use their stamp of approval documents. We have that choice. The Eternal God’s documents will show where our heart, mind & “brain thoughts” are,so will theirs.We have been slowly & insidiously conditioned for this anyway, FROM childhood. Personally, I think it will be either a National Picture ID or a World Picture ID. Now, this type of ID is just a thought of mine. Whatever it is, I guarantee it will be something most people will want because of all the “benefits” it will provide. I saw an advertisement recently, forget the product, but the response was,GOT TO HAVE IT, I JUST GOTTA HAVE IT. These Stamp of “approval” document(s) will be presented in such a way, that most people will say, just gotta have it. It pays to advertise.

         
    • J.M.

      January 13, 2014 at 7:57 PM

      Yartap,
      It’s going to take an Alfred Adask to understand your theory 100%. Some of what you call your theory, I do understand & it’s more than a theory,to me. I cannot understand part of what you are saying for the following reasons & of which I use your own words

      Here is my theory; We are not sure which it is….; The word, “number,” as used in the verse, is intriguing and a mystery; If we assume; What also makes the verse a mystery, This wording confuses readers;as like money; thou, it’s meaning is hard to understand; Now armed with this theoretical knowledge; This may/could be;. This time frame could possible cause my theory to be invalid; < etc.

      IF The Book of Revelation was called The Book of Mystery, there would be no problem, but Revelation means Revealing, not concealing. The Book of Revelation is understood by OTHER books in the Bible,e.g. The Book of Daniel for just one example. I think the Holy Scriptures interpret themselves,it's finding them that is not easy.

       
      • Yartap

        January 13, 2014 at 10:10 PM

        Greetings, Jim,

        My ability to communicate is some-what lacking. But, I’m trying. ;-) Maybe, if I had not titled by writing THE MARK OF THE BEAST, but rather, THE DEVIL CAME DOWN TO GEORGIA, LOOK-IN FOR A BANK TO STEAL! (God bless Charlie Daniels), itwould have been a better way of expressing my thoughts. ;-)

        What I was trying to show in Rev. 13: 16-18 is that: 1. The “mark in their right hand” is a contractual agreement. 2. The “count” means accounting. 3. The “number” represents something of substance like money/gold/monetary system. 4.The phrase, “in their foreheads” means a belief in their minds.” 5. The “man,” referenced, is king Solomon.

        Then I tell the event, as to, how this use of banking and a monetary system could have been used to attack and to deceive the world, by attacking man’s LOVE of money from a sinful ROOT of a man’s soul. Remember, this is just a theory, as to, what could have happened.

        I hope this as helped.

        Blessing, Yartap.

         
    • J.M.

      January 13, 2014 at 10:38 PM

      Yartap, my dear friend,
      @ >>>THE DEVIL CAME DOWN TO GEORGIA, LOOK-IN FOR A BANK TO STEAL!
      Now that, I do understand.
      When I said, it’s going to take an Alfred Adask to understand what you are saying you should have been flattered. It was too deep for me, but I tried to say why. Now I am going over to another thread to see what your response is, re: the Old & New Testaments feet. Ohhhh the agony of defeat

       
    • J.M.

      January 18, 2014 at 1:53 AM

      Yartap,
      My message I am trying to send to you & you only will not post entirely. I have tried twice only about half will show up after I see on the monitor the words, posting comment. IF my entire message will ever get through, if you are not stunned, I firmly believe somebody will be. But it will have to go through first. Well let’s see what happens next. Let’s see if this goes through.

       
      • J.M.

        January 18, 2014 at 1:55 AM

        Yes, All of that message went through which makes it even more “interesting.” I cut & pasted my message to you that will only “partially post.”

         
  19. donmako

    January 13, 2014 at 7:04 PM

    P.S. I meant to post this as a good resource for good living http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/legalrights.php

     
  20. Adask

    January 13, 2014 at 7:33 PM

    When the Old Testament talks about the “name” of God, it’s not necessarily talking about the personal “name” of God (“YHWH”?). In the medieval sense of “I come in the name of King Arthur,” the word “name” can also mean “authority” (as in, “I come in the authority of King Arthur.”).

    Thus, to have God’s name on your hand or forehead might not mean that you have God’s personal name inscribed on your head or hand. Instead, it might mean that you have God’s AUTHORITY somehow inscribed or associated with your forehead or hand.

    How God’s “authority” might be associated with your head or hand, I do not know.

     
  21. J.M.

    January 13, 2014 at 8:25 PM

    @ > How God’s “authority” might be associated with your head or hand, I do not know.
    I think Yartap knows. Yartap, where are you? But, I do know this. You are definitely not an attorney. An attorney will never say, I do not know, & you know why better than I do.

     
  22. Yartap

    January 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM

    Greetings,

    The Right Hand is very significant with the Lord. We hold up our right hands to pledge to the Lord as being one of His people. Jesus sits at God’s right hand or at the right hand of God. God sometimes holds back His right hand (His power).

    Isaiah 41: 13, “For I thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.” (God’s pledge to believers)

    Psalm 74:11, “Why withdrawest thou (God) thy hand, even thy right hand? pluck it out of thy bosom.”

    Psalm 118:16, “The right hand of the Lord is exalted (highest authority): the right hand of the Lord doeth valiantly (courageous; brave; valor).”

    Psalm 110:1, “The Lord (God) said unto my Lord (Jesus), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”

    Holding up both hands to God is to give Him praise, glory and blessings. It is likened to when a man holds up both his hands to surrender, and like a child raising both for his Father to pick him up.

    Lamentations 3:41, “Let us lift up our hearts with our hands unto God in the heavens.”

    Psalm 143:6, “I stretch forth my hands unto thee: my soul thirsteth after thee, as a thirsty land.”

    “[I]n their forehead” only means: in their minds (what one thinks, what one feels, and what one believes). What are the marks “in their foreheads” for the believers of God? Read Rev. 14:1, “having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.”; Rev. 3: 12, “and I (God) will write upon him my new name.”; Rev. 7: 3, “till we (angels) have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.” God’s people receive “signs” or “seals.” The Devil’s people receive “marks.”

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • J.M.

      January 14, 2014 at 3:10 AM

      Yartap,
      @ [I]n their forehead” only means: in their minds (what one thinks, what one feels, and what one believes).
      AMEN!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!! Now we are cooking with a fire, not a wire. In addition, also, what one does, how one lives. THANK YOU Yartap. I believe what you wrote only comes through divine revelation. I have asked The Eternal God to PLEASE help me understand this “in the forehead” matter. I cannot recall how long it was until suddenly,out of nowhere,so to speak, what you said flashed into my heart,mind,brain,my whole being, the very words you wrote + the additional words of what one does,how one lives. We use our hands to do things too, don’t we? But,Satan says, Oh, is that right? Well, what about the good ol boys who are at war with one another & both their arms & legs get shot off, how does what you say,apply to them,hot shot? Huh? Well, Sir, as long as their head is still attached to their shoulders, they can do a lot using their brain & mind. I do not want to say more,about my answer to Satan. It would not be permitted to be posted anyway. ANYWAY, WAY TO GO, Yartap.

       
      • Yartap

        January 14, 2014 at 2:36 PM

        Brother Jim, Greetings,

        I give Glory to God, that you have received.

        Many times in my seeking Him, I will read and read, and not gain; then one day, it happens, God in His time reveals His meaning to me. We are instructed by Him to be patient and diligent. This is a sign from us to Him.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
  23. donmako

    January 14, 2014 at 12:07 AM

    Yeah sorry J.M. the .com was missing from the email i take it… and no those were meant for adrian but anyone could benifit from those informative vids. Also been on rhe hunt for a vid about xmas is a lie where there was a good bit of research into pope sixtas and about the phrophecy of the popes. And to be botherd by sin is great. Its proof of the Holy Spirit indwelling in us. Because we are still part of sin while in this flesh. Its when wer perfected that were sinless for real. Even king david was a murderer. And he was a man after Gods own heart. So im happy to be in torment to resist sin. It means im a target. Im doing what im supposed to. If i had it so easy peasy id be worried… like smelting silver. Put it in the hottest fire imaginable. You know its ready when you can see yer reflection in it… thats how god does us. Wer rdy when he can see HIS in us.

     
    • J.M.

      January 14, 2014 at 4:47 AM

      donmako,
      I know you said, Christmas video. This particular video, includes that but goes into ” Christmas” even further,deeper,so to speak. New year’s day is really a continuation of the December 25th observance. Remember the 12 days of Christmas?? It’s from December 25th through January 5th, although most people only “recognize” December 25th,& January 1,called New year’s day. IF you will watch the entire video you will see what I’m trying to say. Madonna & Child (baby) “became” was switched to, Mary & Child (Baby Jesus) It just goes on & on. But, A rose by any other name,is still a rose. I could put a Ford emblem on my G.M.C. pickup truck,but that “really” does not make it a Ford. BUT, it will be a Ford to anyone who does not know better.Get my drift ??

       
  24. J.M.

    January 14, 2014 at 3:39 AM

    donmako,
    @Also been on rhe hunt for a vid about xmas is a lie
    Got something even better than just that.

    http://www.eternalcog.org/wtc/2014new.html.

    I hope this link works. It cannot be made plainer than what this video shows.& remember,hit me up with yer thoughts.

     
  25. Jetlag

    January 14, 2014 at 3:12 PM

    @KD “We are not under any part of the Old Law.”

    That’s correct. The author of Hebrews confirms this:

    Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

    This meant “soon” as of when the letter to the Hebrews was written (not the time you happen to be reading it), of course, which was around 64 AD.

    Luke 21:20-22 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

    They (i.e. those being addressed in this passage) did indeed see Jerusalem “surrounded by armies” in the late 60s AD. The “desolation” of Jerusalem followed soon thereafter in 70 AD.

     
    • J.M.

      January 14, 2014 at 4:03 PM

      Jetlag
      @KD “We are not under any part of the Old Law.”

      That’s correct. The author of Hebrews confirms this:

      I’m not sure what “Old Law” either one of you are talking about, but based upon your comment I believe you will be able to answer a few questions for me.But I doubt that you will, at least sensibly. What does perpetual mean? What does throughout your generations mean ? When The Apostle Paul writes, therefore, let us keep the Feast, what does keep mean? Does it mean to forget about,e.g. Therefore let’s forget about keeping the Feast? AND, Jetlag,& KD, I’m not asking about, “what Feast” so don’t pull that one on me. What does let us KEEP the Feast,mean? What about the Day of Pentecost, when they were ALL gathered together? AND, all of my questions refer to what is written in the NEW Testament, or if you want to NITPICK, New Covenant. Either ALL the Holy days STAND, or FALL together. If one has been abolished, ALL have. Hit me up with yer thoughts.

       
      • KD

        January 14, 2014 at 4:24 PM

        When would be the best time to evangelize the Jewish nation? When great masses are gathered together in one place. That is what occurred when Peter and the rest of the apostles preached on Pentecost following the ascension of Christ.

        Here is a great article on the subject:
        http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/WasPaulASabbathKeeper.html

         
    • Yartap

      January 14, 2014 at 8:46 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      At that time, God’s covenant made with Abraham had nothing to do with the law. The written law was not in existence or received then. Re-read Genesis chapter 17.

      And re-read Hebrew chapter 8, and look at verse 10: “I will put my LAWS into their mind, and write THEM (laws) in their hearts:”. The Word was God and the Word was made flesh (Jesus).

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • Yartap

        January 14, 2014 at 9:01 PM

        Oh – here is one more Jetlag, that comes from the Lord God (not Jesus). God gives the New Covenant to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 31: 31-34.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
  26. J.M.

    January 14, 2014 at 6:16 PM

    KD
    @ >When would be the best time to evangelize the Jewish nation?

    Where do you come up with this Jewish Nation? It also plants a seed that all of God’s Holy Days & Feast days are JEWISH. We have the Book for “The House of Israel.” Remember, speak unto the children of Israel?? Over & over & over. All “true jews” are Israelites, BUT not ALL Israelites are JEWS. There are 11 other tribes. The Commander & Chief of this blog’s Christian name is Alfred. Alfred IS a Hebrew name. He reads & studies this Holy Bible,which repeatedly says, Speak unto the Children of Israel. I only need the following scripture to know that at least the 7th day Sabbath is STILL valid, & NOT abolished even tho a million zillion articles could be written & saying & supposedly proving otherwise. > “Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.” I know what perpetual means & I know what throughout their generations mean. God does not say,you shall keep the sabbath up & until I change my mind & say otherwise.BUT,since that scripture is so plain, & for those who want it to say something else,sure they will come up with never ending reasons as to allegedly prove that perpetual does not mean perpetual & throughout their generations, has ceased, i.e. there are not any more generations of the children of Israel. Still, I think you,KD, will say the sabbath has been abolished, nailed to the cross ,so you will say the same thing about the MANY OTHER God given commands to the “Children of Israel” for a perpetual covenant. If my memory is correct, I think it is the Book of Zachariah chapter 14, that also makes it crystal clear what will take place ON THIS EARTH when The Kingdom of God is established. I may be wrong about the Chapter number. I will look it up & let you know. If I try to do it now, this message I want to send will vanish.

     
    • J.M.

      January 14, 2014 at 6:36 PM

      KD,
      Yes, it’s Zechariah 14. SO, if the holy days & feast days have been abolished, as you say,they will be reestablished won’t they???. This doesn’t make sense..WHY, BECAUSE God is the same yesterday,today,& tomorrow. When he says perpetual,he means PERPETUAL. He doesn’t say,well look fellas, I know I said perpetual before, but i can change my mind anytime I want to,& I did and had the holy days abolished, but this is to inform you that I have changed my mind again,& I’m going to have them reestablished. Fellas, I get a kick out of doing this & mainly because I don’t want you to know what my next move will be. I like to keep you guessing. You know what KD, if you want to follow a god who thinks like that, go for it.

       
      • donmako

        January 14, 2014 at 7:17 PM

        Im still torn on that matter. I know our Lord Jesus kept the whole law and its feasts. I know wer to imitate Christ. I gotta ask this….. what sins have you yet commited when Jesus hung on the cross? And he did die for all of them. Thank you Jesus. I know that its with your Holy Spirit we are tormented over sin. We will never be right until our perfection. God bless those in Christ Jesus

         
    • KD

      January 14, 2014 at 7:26 PM

      J.M., the kingdom of God was established in the first century. Need proof? Paul informed the church at Colossae that they were in the kingdom (Col. 1:13. Which if you take the context, it is the church, v. 18; see also Eph. 5:23; Matt. 16:18). John told the first century church that “I John, who also am your brother and companion in tribulation, AND IN THE KINGDOM AND PATIENCE OF JESUS CHRIST…” Christ is King today and there cannot be a king without a kingdom.

      Christ will not reign physically on earth, nor is it ever said that He will set foot on earth again. The prophet Zechariah wrote that the Messiah would rule as a priest king in His kingdom (6:12-13). Now turn to Hebrews 8. “Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all” (v. 4)…”For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about a priesthood” (7:14).

       
      • J.M.

        January 14, 2014 at 7:48 PM

        KD,
        I don’t think the Mount of Olives has split apart yet as described in Zechariah 14. So we are talking about two different Kingdoms. GET AWAY AND STAY AWAY FROM ME SATAN !!!

         
      • KD

        January 14, 2014 at 7:53 PM

        So, inspired writers like the apostles John and Paul are wrong, but denomination inspired J.M. is right. Smh.

         
  27. J.M.

    January 14, 2014 at 8:50 PM

    donmako,

    KD, K for King D for Devil, keeps referring mainly to The Apostle Paul’s writings. The following scripture applies to him,I regret to say, but you make up your own mind,with the help of YHWH.

    2 Peter 3:16 > “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction”

    Also keep in mind the “other scriptures” as showing above.I am not a member of any church I am not in any denomination.But, I know what abomination King Devil, is in.

    You ask,”what sins have you yet commited when Jesus hung on the cross? And he did die for all of them.”

    I believe I will be correct in saying, any sin that can be committed,I HAVE committed.The Messiah’s death did not give me permission TO KEEP ON COMMITTING THEM. In other words if we are wrong, we don’t have to STAY that way. I STILL have a long way to go to become perfect & I hope when I am dying I will still be trying to BECOME that way.

     
    • Yartap

      January 15, 2014 at 12:42 AM

      Greetings to the Family of Christ, Jim and KD,

      Jim, do not allow KD’s words to bring you to anger and name-calling. KD is here with us to share. Tho, we may all disagree with each other, we must use kind and peaceful words with each other. We all seek revelations. If anything that KD has offered to me, so far, it is this: My faith and beliefs are strengthened. I see this in you too. Blessings.

      KD, do not allow J.M.’s word’s (nor mine) to bring you to anger and name-calling. We are to love one another. The thoughts you put forward sound like the modern day Christian doctrine of just living upon the New Testament, which many believe. But, you must ask yourself, with great thought, which of the Old Testament laws were done away with? You said we are not under “any” of the OT laws, but then, you say 9 of the 10 commandments were brought over to the NT. Could you share these NT scriptures where they were “brought over.” I read in Jeremiah 31: 31-34 that God (not Jesus) promises the New Covenant and places His law in our minds and hearts. Is this “law,” that God speaks of, this new law; or just the brought over laws; or is it His OT law? KD, I am well pleased by your writings to share God and Jesus with me. Blessings.

      To both of you, Paul’s writings are very difficult to understand, and many do not understand Paul’s writings, even the apostle, Peter. I believe, through Paul’s writings, God is making us prove ourselves to His doctrines. Much study and prayer is needed for understanding. Paul speaks in a legalize nature. Jim, the scripture you offered, is Peter’s warning that understanding scripture, even his, is hard to understand for the unlearned and unstable, which may lead to destruction. He is not condemning Paul’s writings, even tho, they had church politics differences. Hummm, sounds just like You and KD. ;-)

      Yartap.

       
      • KD

        January 15, 2014 at 5:05 AM

        In one place or another 9 of the 10 were reiterated and incorporated as part of the gospel. The requirement to keep the sabbath was never bound by the gospel. Now, we do see the early disciple preaching and teaching on the sabbath, but they preached and taught on everyday of the week. The sabbath was part of OT Law and we are not bound by such (Rom. 7-10; Gal. 2; Eph. 2; Col. 2).

         
      • Yartap

        January 15, 2014 at 5:43 PM

        Greetings, KD,

        Romans 7: 9-11, w/ context to verse 10, is saying a man is brought unto death by the OT law. The law cannot save a man, as does our FAITH in the sacrificial blood of Christ. This does not end the OT law.

        Galatians 2, is meaning a man is not justified by the WORKS of the OT law, but by the FAITH of Jesus Christ. Just following the OT law, while not believing in Jesus Christ will not get one into heaven. This does not end the OT law.

        Re-read Galatians 5: 18-23 to understand what the faithful do (things that are lawful) vs. what the sinners do (things that are against the OT law). This is Paul’s meaning of “ye are not under the (OT) law.” This does not end the OT law.

        Ephesians 2, is saying that by the grace are we saved through FAITH, and not by our WORKS of the OT law. Are you understanding now? The OT law still exit, but just following it will not get one to eternal life with God, one must BELIEVE in CHRIST. This is the point of all your offered verses.

        Now, let’s get to Colossians 2. This is where you are getting hung up in understanding. I tried to us reasoning for your understanding, like Galatians 5:18-23 (above); but you kept your focus upon the word, “ordinances.” So, let’s focus upon that word.

        First, God has commandments, statutes, judgements, and ordinances, which combined are called His Law. Each differ from the other, but can effect another e.g. “You will keep the Sabbath day holy (commandment) on Saturday. No! – its on Sunday (man’s ordinance). No! – its any day (man’s ordinance again).” Ordinances could be related to feast and length of hair, etc, as such.

        Read Isaiah 1: 10-15, here God is getting sick and tired of all the burnt offerings, vain oblations: incense, new moon, Sabbaths, assembles, solemn meetings, and appointed feast. All of these ordinances are of God and man.

        Strong’s Concordance defines “ordinance” three (3) ways:
        1. “Dogmatizo” (G:1379) from 1378; to PRESCRIBE by statute i.e. to submit to ceremonial rule: – be subject.
        2. “Dogma” (G: 1378) from the base of 1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):- decree.
        3. “Paradosis” (G:3862) from 3860; transmission, i.e. concrete a PRECEPT; specially the Jewish traditionary law (old Testament);- ordinance, tradition.

        I always tell people to not take Strong’s as a firm straight forward definition. But, note, the Greek words numbered 1378 and 1379 are related definitions, and not to 3862’s definition. They’re different meanings for the word, “ordinance,” with different usages. Further, we define “dogma” (1378) in today’s terms as doctrines, ideas and opinions from an authoritative church (not God) as truth.

        First, read 1 Corinthians 11:2, here Paul uses the Greek word, “paradosis” (3862), “ordinance.” Now, read Colossians 2 using the related “ordinances.” Notice the difference in Colossians 2: 14, which uses “dogma” (1378) and Colossians 2: 20, which uses “dogmatizo” (1379) against Paul’s “paradosis” (3862). Do you notice the difference between the related meanings (1378 & 1379) and Paul’s used definition (3862)?

        Note that 1378 was “nailed to the cross”; thus, by relation, meaning also 1379, which ask “are you subject to man’s ordinances? Was the ordinance’s (3862) of God nailed to the cross? No, they were not. They still stand. Even, the commandment about the Sabbath stands, but not man’s dictate about which day or hour. This is what Paul is trying to say. Colossian 2 is not saying that the Old Testament is dead or gone, just the church’s carnal doctrines.

        Open your mind. Just following the OT law will not get you to eternity with God, Christ has set you free from the church’s BS doctrines unto eternity with God.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • KD

        January 15, 2014 at 8:52 PM

        In Matthew’s record of what is commonly called, “The Sermon on the Mount,” these words of Jesus are recorded:
        “Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” (Mt. 5:17-18).
        It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “destroy” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the “sabbath day” requirement must be operative still, along with, perhaps, numerous other elements of the Mosaic regime. This assumption is grounded upon a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage.
        We may confidently affirm that Christ did not here suggest that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain perpetually obligatory. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament record. Consider the following points.
        (1) Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “destroy.” It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning to “loose down.” The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Mt. 26:61; 27:40; Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Cor. 5:1). The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., to “render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to deprive of force” or to “invalidate.”
        (2) It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “destroy” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came “…not to destroy, but [alla — adversative particle] to fulfill.
        The meaning is this. Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an adversary of the law. His goal was not to frustrate its fulfillment. Rather, he revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding himself (Lk. 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience or else imposed a “curse” (see Gal. 3:10,13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.
        (3) If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, as it did before Christ came, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what he came “to do.” On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish what he came to accomplish, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal regime today.
        (4) If the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ, and thus remains as an obligatory legal system for today, then it is not a partially binding regime; rather, it is totally compelling system.
        Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose.
        “But,” some surmise, “does not the text affirm that the law would last until ‘heaven and earth’ pass away?” No, only that it would be “easier” for the universe to pass away than for the law of God not to fulfill its mission (cf. Lk. 16:17).
        And so, if one contends, on the basis of Matthew 5:17-18, that Moses’ law is still binding as a legally required regime, he must take all of it — including its bloody sacrifices, annual treks to Jerusalem, purification rituals, etc. As Paul later will argue — if a man receives one portion of the law [as binding for justification], he is a debtor to do all of it (Gal. 5:3). This is the logical consequence of the misguided “sabbatarian” view of this important text.
        (5) In addition to the points listed above, Paul clearly argues, in his letter to the Ephesians, that the “law of commandments contained in ordinances” was “abolished” by the death of Jesus upon the cross (2:14-15). The Greek term for “abolished” is katargeo, literally suggesting the idea of reducing something to a state of inactivity.
        Paul uses this term twice in Romans 7:2,6 — showing that just as a wife is “discharged” from the law of her husband when he dies, even so, through the death of the body of Christ, men were “discharged” from the obligations of the Mosaic law. That the law here contemplated is the law of Moses, including the ten commandments, is demonstrated by the reference to the tenth commandment in Romans 7:7 (cf. Ex. 20:17).
        The harmony between Matthew 5:17-18, and Ephesians 2:15, is this: The purpose of the law of Moses was never to come to naught; its original design would be perpetual. On the other hand, as a legal code, it would be abolished, being cancelled by the Savior’s sacrificial death (cf. Col. 2:14ff.).
        And so, a consideration of all the facts leads only to the conclusion that Matthew 5:17 does not afford any support to those who maintain that the observance of the sabbath day is a divinely-required obligation for this age.

         
      • Yartap

        January 16, 2014 at 12:42 AM

        Greetings, KD,

        In the start of your writing, you give Mt. 5: 17-18, which the phrase, “till ALL things be accomplished.” I assume that you believe this phrase means, “fulfilled,” as I do, too. As I understand, from your further writing later you argue, I assume, that Jesus “fulfilled” his mission when he ascended into heaven. If my assumption is correct, then is Jesus’s “Second Coming” going to happen? Are you saying that Jesus is not coming back? Where is the new Jerusalem? Jesus will not fulfill the scriptures until he completes his return and judgements. Please, stop and think about that. ALL has not been fulfilled!

        Further, in your beginning, I assume, you offer that the Law of Moses was some kind of “regime.” I thought the Law of Moses was God’s Law, and given to Moses by God? Are you implying that God is operating a regime? Kindly, please, stop and think more carefully about your wording.

        In your point 2, your contention that “NOT to destroy” is adverse to “fulfill.” The only way for this, adversity of words to exist, is if one believes that the fulfillment was completed with Jesus’s ascending to heaven and the law was “nail to the cross.” As I have shown before, Jesus only removed the ordinances of the church doctrines (ceremonial beliefs of man), making the true law shine, for the law is not burdensome for the faithful.

        You offer Luke 24:44 which says the fulfillment as “written in the law of Moses, in the prophets, and in the psalms concerning him” (Christ). You don’t mean that all three will be gone or nailed to the cross? What will be sung in Heaven with the Psalms gone? I offer 1 John5:7, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” and 2 John verse 6, “And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

        What died upon the cross were our bodies with Christ (sinful nature); God’s sacrificial laws, because Christ is the only worthy and LAST sacrifice; the churches religious doctrines and ordinances.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • KD

        January 16, 2014 at 7:50 AM

        When Jesus comes back it will be to “deliver the kingdom” unto the Father (1 Cor. 15).
        I assume that you believe that the kingdom will only be created when Jesus returns. That is false. Christ fulfilled what he came to do. He set up a kingdom (Col. 1; Rev. 1:9). Christ is reigning today as King over His kingdom, His church.

         
      • Yartap

        January 16, 2014 at 12:46 PM

        Greetings, KD,

        No, you assume wrongly. The kingdom of Christ is among us in our minds and in our hearts, Heb. 8:10. This, I agree with you.

        I was pleased that you offered 1 Corinthians 15 , of things to come, about Jesus delivering up his kingdom to God. Verse 25, “For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” We still have a way to go in time. Verse 26, “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is DEATH.” The last enemy against man, “death” (hell) will be thrown into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:14. 1 Corinthians 15:28, “And when all things shall be subdued unto him (Christ), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (God) that put all things under him (Christ), that God may be All in all.” After his second coming, he will deliver his kingdom unto God. This completes Jesus’s mission unto FULFILLMENT as said in the law and in the prophets.

        1 Corinthians 15:34, “Awake to righteousness, and SIN not;…” Why does Paul call upon men to “sin not” or not follow the law? Doesn’t he know that the law is “nailed upon the cross” and does not exist? God forbid! Paul knows the law exist. He had not known sin, except by the law.

        “Wherefore the law was (is) our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by FAITH. But AFTER that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”, Galatians 3:24-25.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • KD

        January 16, 2014 at 1:49 PM

        So the apostle Paul, John the baptizer, the apostle John, and Jesus Christ were all incorrect?
        John the baptizer- Matthew 3
        Jesus Christ -Mark 9:1. Consequently, if you premillennialists are right, then there are 2 possibilities in this verse: 1.Christ is a liar
        2. There are people walking the earth that is ~2,000 yrs old
        You are incorrect and Christ established His kingdom, which is the church and premillennialism falls flat on its face.
        The apostle Paul – Colossians 1, 1 Corinthians 15
        The apostle John said that he and his fellow Christians were in the kingdom of Christ (Revelation 1:6, 9).

        So, are they liars and uninspired wackos or does your doctrine have so many holes in it that it will not stay afloat? I’ll say that it’s the latter.

         
      • Yartap

        January 16, 2014 at 8:09 PM

        Greetings, KD,

        Please do not be frustrated with me. Let’s us share.

        First, I do not think that Jesus, John the Baptist, the apostle John, nor Paul are liars, incorrect nor uninspired wackos.

        John the Baptist, “And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of HEAVEN is at HAND (G:1448).”, Matthew 3: 2, KJ.

        The Wycliffe Bible says Matt. 3:2 this way, “for the kingdoms of heaven shall APPROACH.” The Geneva Bible says the word, “kingdom,” as used, means the “kingdom of Messiah.” Strong’s defines “hand” (G:1448) as “to make near, i.e. approach:”

        This verse is a declaration that Christ’s kingdom is near and approaching, which was true. I believe that Christ’s kingdom started from his resurrection unto his fulfillment, when he gives over his kingdom to become the kingdom of God for final judgement.

        “And he (Jesus) said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.” Mark 9:1.

        KD, your offer of Mark 9:1, had me going and saying, “Well, here is one that sides with KD’s view.” and I got excited. But, as I searched for conformation, I ran upon this: The Wycliffe Bible says, “which shall not taste THE death,” I wondered and questioned, “THE death?” This lead me to wonder if “THE death” means Christ’s death and adhering to the believers’ old natures dying on the cross with Christ, every day as Paul has said. But, many other text confirm as the verse reads, which is that they will see the Kingdom of God before their deaths.

        As far as 1 Corinthians 15 and Collossians 1 you offer, I have refuted your theory before , in my mind writings and evidence, with the exception of the above. Revelations 1:6, 9, I agree, the kingdom of Jesus, not the kingdom of God, yet, until Jesus hands it over to God on Judgement day.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • J.M.

        January 18, 2014 at 1:09 AM

        Yartap, my friend,
        @ > Please do not be frustrated with me. Let’s us share.( >> “And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.” << Has this ever happened before? We know it is not happening today BUT it will happen in the future. It apparently will be un-nailed from the cross.

        "And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain." < How about that? ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH. Is this happening today, or has their been a time WHEN this was happening? Not that I know of

        "And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
        I think it still rains in Egypt, once in a while, at least the weather reports I checked out, said rain. here & there. Before you respond, if you do, please read my message over one or two more times. Please.

         
      • J.M.

        January 18, 2014 at 1:35 AM

        Yartap,
        Only part of my LAST message to YOU & YOU only went through. I’ll try one more time & IF my ENTIRE comment goes through, this should open some eyes as to who are “sharing with.”

        Yartap, my friend,
        @ > Please do not be frustrated with me. Let’s us share.( >> “And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.” << Has this ever happened before? We know it is not happening today BUT it will happen in the future. It apparently will be un-nailed from the cross."And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain." < How about that? ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH. Is this happening today, or has their been a time WHEN this was happening? Not that I know of "And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
        I think it still rains in Egypt, once in a while, at least the weather reports I checked out, said rain. here & there. Before you respond, if you do, please read my message over one or two more times. Please.

         
      • Yartap

        January 19, 2014 at 4:34 PM

        Greetings brother in Christ, Jim,

        In regard to Zechariah 14, I believe this to be Christ’s second coming, an event in the future. We know that the Romans, and only Rome, destroyed the second temple. From Chapter 14, we find that the Lord (Jesus) “will gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle,” (14:2 & 16). This is also confirmed in Revelations 19:19.

        Jim, fear not for me. I do not look upon any one’s words as a disruption of my faith, if anything, I stand ready for only the truth of the Word. This exercise in sharing the Word has only strengthened my faith in Christ.

        But, let me say to you, that I greatly appreciate your concern and love. Thank You! It means so much to me. Thank You! It’s good to know that a brother is close at hand for my safety. Thank You Lord for Jim!

        Blessings to you, Yartap.

         
      • J.M.

        January 21, 2014 at 2:27 PM

        @ >Jim, do not allow KD’s words to bring you to anger and name-calling. KD is here with us to share.
        Yes daddy, I understand.I’m sorry. One time this harsh dad screamed at his son & said, stop eating like a pig, you’re a pig, aw forget it you’re so stupid you don’t even know what a pig is !!! The child responded, daddy I do know what a pig is too,a pig is the offspring of a hog.

         
    • J.M.

      January 15, 2014 at 2:35 AM

      Yartap,Jetlag,KD, etc.

      I am going to adhere to the scripture that says,” Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers.”OR, You should look at it this way.You should not be communicating with me. Jetlag doesn’t know the difference between a holiday & a Holy Day. Where do you,Yartap, get the idea that Peter did not understand Paul’s writings, inspired by “The Eternal God”? So, God inspired Paul to write words that would be hard to understand? I don’t see the reason God would do that. Peter says > which they that are “unlearned and unstable” wrest…. Peter is saying that many of Paul’s inspired of God writings ARE hard to understand by THOSE WHO ARE UNLEARNED & UNSTABLE. So what do these unlearned & unstable people do about these hard to understand,(for them) scriptures? Peter says they wrest them to their own destruction. OH YES.I know that is EXACTLY what you say I’m doing. So, ALL of you,who say this is what I.m doing are ADMONISHED to not fellowship with me. Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers. I’m doing YOU a favor.
      Fare thee well “friends.” And when I say fare thee well I mean what I say, & I say what I mean.

       
      • Yartap

        January 16, 2014 at 1:25 AM

        Greetings, Brother ,Jim,

        Thank you for your correction. In my hast, I did make a mistake about Peter. What I should have said, “even the apostle, Peter, had trouble” (understanding Paul). I got my thoughts from the side notes of the Geneva Bible which stated that Peter was not in disagreement with Paul’s writing; but rather, Peter said that Paul’s, his, and some others writings were difficult to understand. And we know it’s true.

        What is the reason, why God would make the writers words be difficult? It is the same reason Jesus spoke in “parables,” for us to show and prove our seeking Him for His approval of us. As Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” John 10:27.

        Jim, I would not say that you are unlearned or unstable, to the contrary, I have learn from YOU! Thank You God for Your servant, Jim. But, let us remember, that even the learned will have trouble getting into heaven. I believe the key is for all to build upon their FAITH in Jesus to lead us unto God.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
      • KD

        January 16, 2014 at 1:51 PM

        We’re not yoked.

         
      • J.M.

        January 16, 2014 at 3:53 PM

        correction & addendum,
        @ >So, God inspired Paul to write words that would be hard to understand?

        So, God inspired Paul to write words and to the extent that at least some of the chosen disciples, i.e., e.g., The Apostle Peter would not understand? How can two walk together unless they are in agreement? Their path will soon part.Satan is the author of confusion. He is also called, the god of this world, at the present time & Satan has been the god of “this world” for quite a while. So, yes, this is something the god of this world would attempt to try & influence the Apostle Paul to do. Apparently & obviously there are people who believe he,Satan was successful & I say if so, then some of Paul’s words are inspired of Satan. As for me, I do not for one second believe ANY of Paul’s writings are inspired of Satan. If people want to eat rats & mice & cats & dogs,& maggots, etc., & some do eat these things,then according to what some people say, Paul says eat these things if you so desire & don’t let anyone judge you for doing so. If you want to drink arsenic, do it, & don’t let anyone judge you for doing so. I think I’m going to use this don’t let anyone judge you statement in my next battle with gov-co. I am simply going to send the charges back and put the magistrate on notice that I am not going to let him/her judge me in this matter per Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you. I’m certain this will have the charges dismissed. No doubt about it.

         
  28. Jetlag

    January 14, 2014 at 11:37 PM

    Regarding holidays, etc.:

    Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

    Regarding the “new covenant” in Jeremiah:

    God tells Jeremiah about a covenant which was to come in the future. God uses the future tense.

    Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    The above section of Jeremiah is quoted by the author of Hebrews to identify the “new covenant” of Jeremiah with the covenant newly established by Christ.

    Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

    The author of Hebrews prefaces this by saying:

    Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

    This means there was only one covenant (the “first”) before the New Covenant (the “second”).

     
  29. Adrian

    January 15, 2014 at 2:24 PM

    This is for you jew people: The ship is sinking,get out of the Land of OZ!
    GOD is a myth so is you boy JESUS.
    Walk straight and aim high.
    Your mind is your guiding light.
    Reality is under your feet.

     
    • KD

      January 15, 2014 at 4:12 PM

      Troll

       
    • J.M.

      January 18, 2014 at 10:05 PM

      @ >The ship is sinking…..
      The ship is sinking because not enough people wanted to “ROCK THE BOAT !!! ” The ship is sinking because of people promoting everything that is good, just, & holy as being nailed to the cross!!! The ship is sinking because there are to many Godless people like you and the nailed to the crossers allowed to stay in our midst !!!

       
    • J.M.

      January 21, 2014 at 11:56 AM

      Adrian,
      @ >This is for you jew people: The ship is sinking,get out of the Land of OZ!

      Adrian why do you want us “jew people” to be saved,etc? Are you a glutton for punishment?
      If we jew people stay on this sinking ship & go down with it, this should make you happy & you could say, good riddance. Isn’t this what you really want? Can you imagine the torment you would be subjected to if we come over there where you are?

       
      • Adrian

        January 21, 2014 at 1:03 PM

        J.M. there are to many phony believers in this myth of GOD.The jews are some of them.The problem we have there are too many of them.My place is full of them.
        If the jews go,what about those who were brainwashed by the jews and their phony bible.
        I won’t be on the ship.May be the only one left after the flood.I hope to save a few animals.
        As you said,good riddance!

         
  30. Jetlag

    January 16, 2014 at 12:10 PM

    @J.M. “I don’t think the Mount of Olives has split apart yet as described in Zechariah 14.”

    This must have already happened. For several reasons, not least of which is the following passage in Acts where the author says his own time was the “last days” in which the “great and glorious day of the Lord” was approaching:

    Acts 2:14-21 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ” ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ ”

    And this passage:

    Matthew 16:27-28 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    The immediate context in Zechariah is also events which happened during and just before 70 AD:

    Zechariah 14:1-2 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

    Due to the above reasons, among many others, for the Mount of Olives to have not already split would imply an inconsistency in the Bible. Therefore, since the Bible is always consistent with itself, the Mount of Olives has already split.

    Clearly it did not literally split. Scripture often uses geologic metaphors. For example:

    Micah 1:3-4 For, behold, the Lord cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth. And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place.

    And:

    Luke 3:4-5 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth.

     
  31. Adask

    January 16, 2014 at 5:15 PM

    J.M. wrote, “put the magistrate on notice that I am not going to let him/her judge me in this matter per Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you.”

    I wonder . . . could Colossians 2:16-17 be used as a basis for making a “special appearance” (rather than a general appearance)? Could you support Colossians with the 1st Amendment’s freedom of religion and combine the two to refuse to consent to the court’s jurisdiction?

     
    • J.M.

      January 16, 2014 at 7:02 PM

      Re: >Therefore do not let anyone judge you.”
      I knowingly took that “part” of Colossians 2:16 out of context to hopefully illustrate a point. I thought my response as to what I was going to do would show the absurdity of doing such a thing. I know of two more posters who would know I took it out of context, & would come down on it with wrath. But it’s apparently ok for them to take things out of context in practically everything they say. I am in the process of trying to find a case for Pat Fields, but if I may,I would like to follow up on this matter,& your comment, may I ? ……………… Ok thanks !! I will

       
      • J.M.

        January 16, 2014 at 11:23 PM

        I think it would be morally & in many ways wrong to try to use the ,”let no man judge you” scripture, as your “thought” “suggests.”(< ???) For one thing, of many, those words, let no man judge you, only apply to what follows them. When my burning desire about wanting to know about "God" began, & after a lot of study, etc., I thought the Bible was loaded with contradictions.It really got to be disgusting. But something would not let me throw in the towel. Now, many years later, everything that seemed to be a contradiction was anything but that. There are some scriptures that I don't understand even to this day but there are some I do.There is so much I would like to say, but cannot except to submit a little at a time & over a period of time. I will use one example of how some people wrest (wrestle with) & say the scriptures say something when the scriptures say no such thing. Let's start with food, & let no man judge you in what you may eat. In Acts 10, it is written in pertinent part, and he (Peter) became hungry, and desired to eat: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance;

        11 and he beholdeth the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth:

        12 wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts and creeping things of the earth and birds of the heaven.

        13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill and eat.

        14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common and unclean.

        15 And a voice came unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, make not thou common.

        16 And this was done thrice: and straightway the vessel was received up into heaven.

        Some people use these scriptures to say this is proof that what God originally said was not fit for food,he has cleansed & it is now good for food. They don't seem to care to read a little further. The next verse says
        Now while Peter was much perplexed in himself what the vision which he had seen might mean,…. Isn't it strange that Peter had the vision & did not know what it "MIGHT MEAN, but some people KNOW what it does mean? Some people say it means what verse 15 says, it means food that was once unclean to eat is now cleansed & good for food.The truth about what this vision really meant is made plain later in the Book of Acts,Chapter 10, but if anyone is interested, you can see it as plain as the nose on your face. From the things Jetlag & KD are coming up with, I'm sure if they had been there with Peter at the time, they would have explained to Peter what the vision meant.

         
  32. KD

    January 16, 2014 at 11:58 PM

    Y’all can be Judaizing teachers all you want. As for me, I’m going to do as Christ said Matthew 10 and Luke 9 and “shake the dust from” my feet and move on. I pray that you throw away all the unscriptural doctrines that plague this forum.

     
    • Yartap

      January 17, 2014 at 7:35 PM

      Joyous Greetings, KD,

      Joyous Greetings, Jetlag,

      Thank you!, Jetlag, for your offer of Matthew 16: 27-28. It has lead me to a new revelation, which concerns KD’s offer of Mark 9:1.

      As you may know, my belief is based upon 1 Corinthians 15: 25-28, which states that, first, Christ will establish his kingdom after the his resurrection and continue until after his second coming (the fulfillment); second, then Jesus will turn the kingdom over to God for the establishment of the kingdom of God. These kingdoms are two separate kingdoms.

      As I understand KD’s belief, that all was fulfilled upon Jesus’s resurrection, which brought the end of the old testament law. KD offered Mark 9:1 as proof, which states that they (disciples) will “not taste death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.” Thus, meaning that God’s kingdom must arrive in the first coming of Christ.

      But, Glory be to God for Jetlag and his offered Matthew 16: 27-28, which repeats the Mark 9:1 verse. Matthew 16:28, KJ, states, “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man (Jesus) coming in his kingdom.” The Wycille and Geneva Bibles confirm the wording of the King James version. Plus, the Geneva Bible side note about the word, “kingdom,” states, “By his kingdom is understood the glory of his ascension (rising to heaven), and what followeth thereof, or the preaching of the Gospel.” Neither, Wycille or Geneva Bibles side note Mark 9:1’s verse nor give the meaning of the “kingdom of God,” as they do with Matthew 16:28.

      Here we can see the mysterious ways in which the Lord works His wonder. Here we show ourselves approved, in seeking the truth of the Lord. It is hard, but His reward is worth it.

      Thanks and Blessings,

      Yartap.

       
      • Jetlag

        January 17, 2014 at 11:35 PM

        @Yartap

        Before you celebrate too much, consider what little sense it makes to tell an audience that some of those present will still be alive when a certain event happens, when that event is to happen only about a year later.

        Of course some of those standing there would still be alive at the time of the ascension. That goes without saying. The future event referred to was something else, in the more distant future.

        Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

        This event happened in 70 AD, about 40 years in the future, in which case it was not redundant to tell the audience that some of those present would still be alive at the time.

        2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom

        Here we see that the coming of Jesus Christ in his kingdom was an event still in the future as of the writing of 2nd Timothy in about 65 AD.

         
      • Martens

        January 18, 2014 at 3:14 AM

        Jetlag,

        Nice post. I wonder if it will get any responses.

         
      • J.M.

        January 18, 2014 at 3:37 AM

        Yartap, have you ever gone to a movie & seen “previews of coming attractions?” Apparently Matthew 17, & the first few verses are not relevant as to, > there be some standing here who shall not taste of death…. Matthew 17,& the first few verses, was a preview of the “BIG EVENT.” I’ll leave it to you to decide what the Big Event is. That is, unless your so called friends have convinced you that this Big Event has already happened & it seems to me they have. How many kingdoms of God are needed? When the 4 of us started out, I presumed there were 4 gathered together in “his name” & I had what I thought was valid reasons to think this. Later, It really came down to one of two things, there were either 3 still gathered together in “his name” or only one & I gave you 3 the benefit of the doubt & stepped aside. But,as I continued to read & observe to see just how far this deceiving would go, I began to see that you were the only one speaking from the heart, The other two were speaking from an intellectual capacity, like in scholarship. I tried to send you a message, twice, but only part would post, & each time, a different part would post that did not post in my previous attempt. Does this tell you anything? I still think your heart is in the right place but in all honesty, I did at times wonder. Yes It does gall my hindquarters to see anyone deceived but is still sharp enough to pass it on & deceive another. I don’t like what I see happening to you.

         
    • Yartap

      January 18, 2014 at 1:49 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      I only celebrate the truth, which we all should do. I am NOT celebrating against you or any other, nor am I celebrating any “proving a point.” Please, Jetlag and all others let’s celebrate in the Lord, only. I stand ready to be rebuked and corrected to the truth with you, in love. I give to you and others celebration and credit for strengthening my faith. Bless you All!

      As you may know, my belief is based upon 1 Corinthians 15: 25-28, which states that, first, Christ will establish his kingdom after his resurrection and continue until after his second coming (the fulfillment of all); second, then Jesus will turn the kingdom over to God for the establishment of the kingdom of God. These kingdoms are two separate kingdoms.

      Even the verse, Matthew 16:28, tells us that it is Jesus’s kingdom which will come, first, then unto God’s kingdom when all is fulfilled by Christ’s kingdom and his mission. The Geneva Bible side notes about Matthew 16:28, tells us that his kingdom starts at his ascension and continues with the preaching of the Gospel. And in the parallel verse, Mark 9:1, Geneva tells us his kingdom continues through the preaching of the Gospel. So, Jesus’s kingdom starts at ascension and continues.

      Jetlag and others, the offer of Luke 21: 20-22 which states about Jerusalem’s falling (70 A.D.), I do not deny. But, you depend upon the part which states, “[T]hat all things which are written may be fulfilled.” to come to your conclusion of fulfillment. This is incorrect, because you fail to take the remaining scriptures, which follows, into context with it. This is one of the faults we make in reading scriptures. Let’s discuss the following verses of Luke 21: 7-28.

      In Jesus’s prophesy about his kingdom (not God’s kingdom), he tells his disciples of the events and signs leading up to the kingdom of God.
      First, in verses 7-19, Jesus tells his disciples what is going to happen to them personally in his kingdom.
      Second, in verses 20-22, he tells them of the fall of Jerusalem, which must be “fulfilled.” Then…. in verses 24…..
      The people will be led away captive into all nations, and Jerusalem will be “trodden down” by the Gentiles (true Gentiles; I may speak of this later), “until the timeS (plural) of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Here is another “fulfillment” requirement, which must be meet. How long will this take? And how many timeS are there? Have the Gentiles finished? I think not. This plural usage of “times” is confirmed in other Bible translations.
      Then… in verse 25, the next paragraph…..
      Jesus speaks of signs (sun, moon, stars; distress of nations; sea roaring) that must be witnessed. How long will this take? Have these signs happened? I think not.
      Then… in verse 26-28….
      Jesus will appear in a cloud with power and great glory for our redemption. How long will this take? This will finally fulfill Jesus Christ’s mission of his kingdom unto the kingdom of God.

      Returning to Matthew 16:28, the prophecy that Christ gives that “some” will see the coming of his kingdom (not God’s, yet) must be fulfilled. If the assertion that it happens in 70 A.D. is true, then very few of the “some” disciples will “see” it; because, by tradition and history, many die and most are out of town (Jerusalem), so to speak, in other counties. The apostle John may be the only one who sees the “compassed with armies” of Jerusalem; and 4 apostles we know nothing about. But, this does not make the assertion un-true. But, with so many dead or out of town it make one wonder. This question gives me a simple reason to except that Christ’s kingdom starts at his ascension to heaven.

      2 Timothy 4:11 confirms that it is Jesus’s kingdom. But, with that said, the question is this: Has anyone stood before Christ or God for final judgement, yet? I certainly have not, so I patiently wait and prepare myself.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
  33. KD

    January 17, 2014 at 8:38 PM

    Dave Hart
    4 hours ago
    The Ten Commandments
    Greg Weston
    The Ten Commandments were a part of the law of Moses. They were given by God to Moses for the guidance of Israel in daily living. Nine of those ten are seen in the law given by Jesus Christ, the New Testament. We should not teach people to observe the Ten Commandments, but we must teach them to obey Jesus.
    If a person teaches another to keep the Ten Commandments, they are teaching false doctrine. It would be the same as teaching that person to make animal sacrifices or to observe the Passover. All specifics of the Old Testament, as a law binding upon any person, ended when Jesus was nailed to the cross (see Col. 2:12-14). If we are under the Ten Commandments then we must observe the Sabbath (Exod. 20:8-11). However, Paul said to allow no one to judge us in respect of the Sabbath day (Col. 2:14-16). We cannot do both, for these commands are opposite. But since they are found in different covenants which were in force during different time periods, there is no problem. We no longer observe the Sabbath, which is the 7th day or Saturday. The covenant of Christ instructs us to assemble on the first day of the week which is called Sunday (1 Cor. 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7).
    “Thou shall not covet” was one of the Ten Commandments. This is part of that law which Paul said we are no longer joined or ‘married’ to that we can be ‘married’ to the covenant of Christ (Rom. 7:1-7). This does not mean we can now covet and be acceptable to the Lord. Paul told the Colossians not to covet, for it is idolatry (Col. 3:5). Covetousness is prohibited in the law given by Jesus through the apostles and prophets – for all humanity. This is also true for every one of the ten commandments – except for the Sabbath [see above].
    We should study and know the Old Testament, but we are not under the specifics of the Old Testament law. Teach each one this truth so each one can understand. With this understanding we will all be able to serve the Lord faithfully.

     
    • J.M.

      January 18, 2014 at 2:34 AM

      @ > The Ten Commandments were a part of the law of Moses.
      To your knowledge, are there any “Laws of God?” And for example, is the Book penned by James, Peter, & other writers in the New Testament,a,k,a, the law of James, Peter, & the other writers? e.g., the law of Paul? The law of John, etc, etc? If so, we have a lot of man made law, I would think & say. Anyway, are there any Laws or law of God? Thanks for your response.

       
    • Yartap

      January 18, 2014 at 2:50 AM

      Greetings, KD,

      Thank you for your offer from Greg Weston, I assume, titled “The Ten Commandments.”

      First, the Ten Commandments ARE (not “were”) a part of the Law of Moses.

      What was “nail to the cross” were “ordinances” of the law (animal sacrifices; Jesus is the last sacrifice, no need for any other sacrifices, Heb. 10:26) and man’s ordinances (temple rituals, traditions, rules and such). As I have said before. But, the majority of God’s Laws (Law of Moses) are intact. Paul ask, “Why… are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of MEN?”, Colossians 2:20-22. These are rule and regulations of men which Paul speaks of; not the meat of God’s Laws.

      The author said, “Paul said to allow no one to judge us in respect of the Sabbath day. (Col. 2:14-16.” I agree! But, Paul did not say the Sabbath law was dead, as a matter of fact, Paul confirms the Sabbath law as existing. By saying, don’t let anyone judge you about your Sabbath day. As Paul said, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Romans 7: 12.

      “The Sabbath was made for man, (for holy REST); not man for the Sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is LORD also OF the SABBATH.” Mark 2:27-28. Jesus excepts, rules and controls the Sabbath and it applies to us.

      What is it that entitles Jesus to be the “Lord of the Sabbath” day? It’s the fact that He is the Creator! In John 1:10 and Colossians 1:16 we find that Jesus is the Creator of this world. Which means that it was Jesus Himself who created the seventh day Sabbath for mankind. This is how He is Lord of the Sabbath. In other words: He has a short time on earth, and while the Son of God is here, let’s get busy with the Lord’s work (24/7).

      So, why did Jesus and his disciples do the Lord’s work on the Sabbath? Read Mark 2: 18-20. They did not fast, but after his ascension, they are to start back fasting; and, I would suggest, keep the Sabbath too!

      So, I observe the Sabbath. I rest on Saturday (for me); and by doing so, it is my way of showing remembrance of the Lord, because I am like Him, but I’m also ready to spring into action in an emergency, like HIM!

      As the author references with 1 Corinthians 2:1-2 and Acts 20:7, Paul is basically telling the churches to gather up the tithing before he gets there on Sunday, so they don’t have to go looking for the money from the brothers. In other words, be ready with the money because I’m leaving the next day. And while he was there, he broke bread in the evenings and preached to them. This tradition of Sunday meetings by all Apostles to receive tithes became known as the Lord’s Day with assembly. This history is confirmed by the Geneva side notes.

      Now, with all due respect, the use of Romans 7: 1-7 is amiss in usage and logically incorrect. First, one cannot equate the “husband” to being the “law” when reading the verses. Second, verse 4 is basically stating that Christ (the husband) died and we marry Christ (the same husband) again. This does not remove God’s law.

      Romans 7: 1-4 are the greatest passages for Christians believers. Not only did Jesus Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection remove the religious ordinances and establish the preaching of the Gospel, his death redeemed the House of Israel back into God’s “fold.” Christ is known and called the Redeemer, which means: one who buys back. These passages reveal the greatest secrets that most Christians do not known or understand.

      As a challenge: If one does not know who the House of Israel and the House of Judea are, and what happened to each in their histories, then one does not know why Christ came to die on the cross. But, this is for another time.

      Blessings to all, Yartap.

       
      • J.M.

        January 18, 2014 at 4:01 AM

        THIS message is from my beloved brother Yartap. The Yartap I love. Hate to say it dear brother but your tell it like it is message is going to fall on sharp minds but hardened hearts. As for me, I thank you for your message & my prayer will be that YHWH will give you strength for the oncoming ridicule. Maybe they will give up & try to find easier prey. Your knowledge Yartap is regarded as dangerous & a lot will be done to discourage you & confuse you,attempted at least. Hang in there dear one.

         
      • Yartap

        January 19, 2014 at 4:41 PM

        Greetings brother in Christ, Jim,

        In regard to Zechariah 14, I believe this to be Christ’s second coming, an event in the future. We know that the Romans, and only Rome, destroyed the second temple. From Chapter 14, we find that the Lord (Jesus) “will gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle,” (14:2 & 16). This is also confirmed in Revelations 19:19.

        Jim, fear not for me. I do not look upon any one’s words as a disruption of my faith, if anything, I stand ready for only the truth of the Word. This exercise in sharing the Word has only strengthened my faith in Christ.

        But, let me say to you, that I greatly appreciate your concern and love. Thank You! It means so much to me. Thank You! It’s good to know that a brother is close at hand for my safety. Thank You Lord for Jim!

        Blessings to you, Yartap.

         
      • Jetlag

        January 19, 2014 at 5:48 PM

        @Yartap “From Chapter 14, we find that the Lord (Jesus) “will gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle,” (14:2 & 16).”

        This was fulfilled circa 70 AD by the Roman Empire whose legions employed soldiers from its entire domain, which included “all the world”.

        Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

         
      • J.M.

        January 19, 2014 at 7:15 PM

        @ They don’t want to understand that those things have been abolished

        They don’t want to understand that those things have NOT been abolished
        It really makes a180 degree difference what one 3 letter word can do. I KNOW I saw “not” when I read my message over before I posted it. Also, I had in parenthesis (Jetlag,KD) but hat did not go through either. The Prince of the power of the air & his associates are on the job 24/7 everyday.

         
      • J.M.

        January 19, 2014 at 7:46 PM

        @ >But, this is for another time.
        I understand exactly what you are saying Yartap so don’t be confused when I say I don’t believe they, the scholars will understand timely. But I guarantee they WILL Understand when “that time comes.” Even if it takes one of the 3 resurrections. I only hope they are not in the 3rd. BUT if they are, they will still understand. That resurrection is for those whose teeth will be gnashing,etc. Don’t waste “your time”, Yartap, trying to explain to “them” who the house of Israel is. I wonder what bible they really believe is the true bible. Sure they are going to use the bible you believe in & scriptures in “THAT” bible to TRY & trip you up. There is no doubt in my mind that Satan KNOWS exactly what the scriptures mean & according to what “his adversary” knows. His co-horts know too.

         
      • Yartap

        January 19, 2014 at 9:55 PM

        Greetings, Jetlag,

        You err again. The Roman Empire controlled most of the KNOWN world, thus: “all the world should be taxed.”. But, it was Rome and Syrian legions that fought, not ALL of the nations. Oh – don’t forget, just to name one, the Parthan Empire known and next to the Roman Empire. Do you need others?

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
  34. Martens

    January 18, 2014 at 3:18 AM

    Galatians 3

    3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

    2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

    4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

    5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

    […]

    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    […]

    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

     
    • Yartap

      January 18, 2014 at 2:30 PM

      Greetings, Martin,

      Those, who think that by only relying upon their works of the law (OT) to get them into eternal life with God without accepting Christ, are gravely mistaken. Just like Abraham believed God, it was accounted to him for righteousness, Galatians 3:6. In other words, Abraham believed ALL of God’s words, not just part.

      God has set up only one stumbling stone for us, Isaiah 8:14; Romans 9:33; 1 Peter 2:7-8. The stone is the belief and acceptance in/of Jesus Christ. If one does not accept Jesus as the Christ, then that one makes and calls God a liar.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • J.M.

        January 19, 2014 at 7:03 PM

        To my friend, Yartap,
        @This exercise in sharing the Word

        First, thank you for your message. One of your & my stumbling blocks is our understanding some things differently. For example, you,Yartap, believed that the two “scholarly lawyers of the truth”, () Jetlag, & KD were “sharing” the scriptures. I thought the same thing & they WERE but only for a short while. From what I saw happening, and when I saw they were, to me, no longer sharing, but using scriptures the way they understand them,to prove their point, you understood they were still sharing. Satan quoted scripture to Jesus. I don’t call that “sharing.” I find it hard to understand that anybody except deceivers & children of the devil could say Satan was only sharing the scriptures with Jesus, nothing more & nothing less.

        Yartap, “sometimes” when I ask a question, I believe I already know the answer.For example,I asked, I think it was Dave Hart, IF there were any laws of God. I asked this for a reason you,Yartap might not think is the reason. So far,he has not responded.

        Re; another issue,> I mentioned about the Mount of Olives being split apart as written in Zechariah 14. Jetlag said/responded >This MUST have already happened. < it should be obvious as to WHY Jetlag said, "this must have already happened." He must say it has already happened because he is sharp enough to know that if it has not happened, then everything he has been "SHARING" falls FLAT ON ITS FACE & he knows this.

        Yartap, sometimes you too misunderstand what I write. For example, I asked another brother a question. I asked HIM, IF HE was familiar with a certain scripture that IS IS IS in the scriptures I already knew where it IS in the scriptures. But, you Yartap, apparently understood I was asking for an explanation of the meaning. You, Yartap responded to what I asked HIM & you, Yartap, Say, Here you go Brother Jim & give an answer. Please,Yartap, don't misunderstand that I am saying you are wrong. I KNOW you were trying to be of help. My point is, sometimes we do not really understand for sure what someone is saying or asking except the scholars on this blog who refuse to understand or want to understand what is holy, just & good. NO !!! They don't want to understand that those things have been abolished. They only want to understand that what is holy,just & good, IS NAILED TO THE CROSS !! Yartap, where are their hearts? Yes it did upset me when you,Yartap said they are only sharing. I hope you see better than that now,

        Yartap who on this thread said: "If a person teaches another to keep the Ten Commandments, they are teaching false doctrine," who,Yartap said this? I do not call saying something like that, SHARING the scripture. ANYWAY, dear Brother, thanks for "keeping in touch."

         
      • Yartap

        January 19, 2014 at 10:16 PM

        Greetings again, Jim,

        Yes, Jim, sometimes we do not connect. I only wanted to help by sharing with you. I do know you are well versed.

        But, stop to think about what I’m doing by “sharing.” If I place the information out there, and someone wishes to drink from it, so be it. But, if someone does not, so be it, too. I’ve done my part of possible planting a seed, which may bloom later. But, who have I really shared with? I have shared with the believers and MYSELF! My sharing strengthens Me to GOD!

        Great Blessings, Yartap.

         
  35. J.M.

    January 18, 2014 at 11:04 AM

    Martens
    @ >Nice post. I wonder if it will get any responses.

    Coming from someone who believes both of you two are animals, it’s understandable why you would say it’s nice. What about Yartap’s post that says in pertinent part:. “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Romans 7: 12. < That's not a very nice thing to say, is it ? .But, it's true that the personification of everything holy, just, and good WAS nailed to the cross & a lot of effort is being made to keep that which is holy, just and good nailed there.

     
  36. Jetlag

    January 19, 2014 at 2:06 AM

    @Yartap

    Let’s have a look at 2 Timothy 4:1 in various translations:

    (New International Version) In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:

    (New Living Translation) I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom:

    (Young’s Literal Translation) I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign —

    (King James Bible) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

    Do you agree, or do you disagree, that this verse refers to “the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (a phrase used elsewhere in scripture) as an event still in the FUTURE at the time this verse was written?

     
    • Yartap

      January 19, 2014 at 3:06 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      As you know, my belief is based upon 1 Corinthians 15: 25-28, which states that, first, Christ will establish his kingdom after his resurrection and continue until after his second coming (the fulfillment); second, then Jesus will turn the kingdom over to God and be subject to God for the establishment of the “kingdom of God.” These kingdoms are two separate kingdoms. And…

      Matthew 16:28, KJ, states, “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man (Jesus) coming in his kingdom.” The Wycille and Geneva Bibles confirm the wording of the King James version. Plus, the Geneva Bible side note about the word, “kingdom,” states, “By his kingdom is understood the glory of his ascension (rising to heaven), and what followeth thereof, or the preaching of the Gospel.”

      Thus, the kingdom of Christ will reign from his ascension unto God’s final judgement day.

      Your us of more modern day translations have caused you problems. The use of older translations are what is needed to clear up the meanings of the verses. And even with them, comprehension can be difficult. Let’s use these older translations for the meat of 2 Timothy 4:1.

      King James > I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;….

      Wycliffe > I witness before God and Christ Jesus, that shall deem the quick and the dead, by the coming of him, and the kingdom of him,….

      Geneva > I charge thee therefore before God, and before the Lord Jesus Christ, which shall judge the quick and dead at that his appearing, and in his kingdom,…..

      Re-read Revelations 19: 11-21 and Revelations 20. We find Christ’s second coming to gather the true faithful and reign with them for a thousand years. This is called the “first resurrection” (20:6) of the faithful, and Christ will judge who shall be with him. “But, the rest of the DEAD lived NOT AGAIN until the thousand years were finished.” (20:5) After the thousand years, Satan is released unto God’s destruction of Satan and his followers, and casing them into the lake of fire.

      Now, to answer your question, judgement is a FUTURE event. But, this is not the establishment in time of Christ’s kingdom. In Christ’s kingdom, we find the preaching of the Gospel is required, which was started after his ascension. Do not err in reading the verse of Timothy as the: appearing of his kingdom; but rather, that Christ will be seen (appear; 2nd coming) by all in his kingdom here of earth, where the Gospel is preached.

      Blessing, Yartap.

       
  37. Jetlag

    January 19, 2014 at 3:56 PM

    @Yartap

    I appreciate your taking the time to reply, but I’m finding your answers a bit opaque. These can be difficult concepts to discuss, so I ask that you try to be as direct and succinct as possible. Otherwise, your intended meaning can be unclear. Thanks.

    You seem to be of the opinion that the kingdom of Christ was established at the ascension and somewhat thereafter, but the judgement remains in the future even today.

    If so, how do you reconcile a coming in judgement that hasn’t happened yet in 2014 with the follow verse which puts the same event in the near future as of when the Epistle to the Hebrews was written in about 64 AD?

    Hebrews 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

     
    • Yartap

      January 19, 2014 at 8:35 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      First, to show your err in believing your thoughts upon fulfillment, in Zechariah 14, I believe this to be Christ’s second coming, an event in the future. We know that the Romans, and only the nation of Rome, destroyed the second temple in 70 A.D., (which is confirmed in Luke 21). From Zechariah chapter 14, we find that the Lord (Jesus) “will gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle,” (14:2 & 16); and he beats ALL nations (14:3). This is also confirmed in Revelations 19:19 about his second coming.

      Look at God’s time:2 Peter 3:8 > But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
      Psalms 90:4 > For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.
      Psalms 90: 10 > The days of our lives are seventy years; And if by reason of strength they are eighty years, Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

      We in our finite minds try to confine an infinite God to our time schedule.

      In 2 Timothy 4: 6-7, we read that Paul is ready to die and place his body as an “offering” and his “departure is at hand.” He continues, “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: …”

      Now, to get to an answer for your question regarding Hebrews 10:37, please look at the verse before, Hebrews 10:36 which says, 36 “For ye have NEED of PATIENCE, that, after ye have done the will of God (unto your death), ye might receive the promise.” 37 “For ye a little while,……” As I understand Paul, the “promise” is coming, but for in a longer time (God’s time). The word, “patience,” is reference to this longer God’s time.

      To give you an example and understanding with anyone today (now). If you have ever had a medical operation, this is the closest experience that one living can have compared to death in relation to time. The patient is placed asleep, and a few seconds later, you have awaken from a 4 hour surgery. This is like experiencing God’s time. So, after death, the promise comes quickly.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • J.M.

        January 20, 2014 at 12:23 AM

        Yartap,
        You are doing a superb job, I think, in using scriptures to show your understanding & what you show, overall, is my understanding also. In other words, I understand it like you do. BUT, from what I see, the two scholars,Jetlag & KD are using scriptures to show it’s not how you understand it, it how they understand it. It really looks like it’s a nobody wins ending. I know they are not going to change & I know you are not either. As far as this sharing goes, & I may be wrong, but only those who respond I would think,are interested. At least enough to say,Thank you. To me, no response means, not interested. But, like I say, this is how it seems to me. But,Yartap, when you wrote to me previously & said,> KD is here with us to share,< this did upset me because by then, I knew better. He was not sharing anything with me.He was trying to destroy my belief based on my understanding. Anyway don't bother to respond to this message from me. Sooner or later you will come to see that you are only beating a dead horse. What's that scripture about pearls? Don't go to the trouble of answering that either because I already know the answer. I wish I could I could say keep up the good work, but I can't. When you come to realize you are beating a dead horse, there is another matter I would like to discuss with you. It's about something I do not understand but would like to. You just might have the missing part of the puzzle I have not found. Blessings to you,Yartap,my friend.

         
      • J.M.

        January 20, 2014 at 12:36 AM

        By the way,Yartap, you have apparently not noticed that when I said GET AWAY & STAY FROM ME SATAN, neither Jetlag or KD has asked me anything or communicated with me in any manner.

         
      • J.M.

        January 20, 2014 at 1:26 PM

        @ I find nothing grievous or derogatory nor misinformed about Martins’s offer.

        I don’t find it “grievous” either. I do find it derogatory to some degree,e.g., sarcastic. He puts quotes around the word near, he wrote,> “especially if the “near” event he advised them to patiently wait for wasn’t going to happen for at least another two millennia”
        Anyway, dear brother, you have a full plate, & I don’t want to add to it. I speak my mind only to find out later I was wrong. I said before, it looks like the way this is going there will be no winners. I take that statement back. I am handing the reins over to you,Yartap. You certainly don’t need any additional problems to contend with. Just keep sharing, as you call it. Now, please, please don’t go to the trouble,time,etc. to respond to this message from me,please don’t. As I said, you have enough & more than enough to contend with, excuse me, share with. I don’t want to share anymore of my worthless shares. Good luck my friend, you are sure gonna need it. Ohh that’s right you have on your side a LOT more than luck. PERSONally, I hope you are right, & have the “last word.” BUT….

         
  38. Jetlag

    January 19, 2014 at 11:56 PM

    @Yartap

    In the first century AD, Rome was a vast international empire whose legions were made up of soldiers from all the “nations”, or “peoples” as the original text can also be translated.

    Thus, when the Roman legions attacked Jerusalem, Zechariah 14:2 was fulfilled.

    This verse does not say every “nation state” in the world will send its own army against Jerusalem. The specificity of this verse only requires all “peoples” be represented in a force that destroys Jerusalem, which is exactly what happened in 70 AD.

    And then there’s the verse just before the above-discussed verse, providing important context:

    Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    This is a useful countercheck, since we know “the day of the Lord” also occurred in the first century AD:

    Acts 2:14-21 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ ”

    The corresponding passage in Joel:

    Joel 2:28-32 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.”

    So we see that Zechariah 14, which concerns Christ coming in judgement, calls this event the day of the Lord. And then we see that Acts 2 says the day of the Lord was imminent as of the first century AD.

    As to Hebrews 10:37, you seem to be claiming it needs to be looked at together with the verse before it, verse 36, to get context. Let’s do that then:

    (New International Version) You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. For, “In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

    (New Living Translation) Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised. “For in just a little while, the Coming One will come and not delay.”

    (Young’s Literal Translation) for of patience ye have need, that the will of God having done, ye may receive the promise, for yet a very very little, He who is coming will come, and will not tarry;

    (King James Version) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

    Even in context with the verse before it, Hebrews 10:37 still says Jesus will come in the near future (as of circa 64 AD, when the Epistle to the Hebrews was written), which means this event can’t be in the future as of 2014 AD.

     
    • Martens

      January 20, 2014 at 2:42 AM

      Jetlag,

      Patience was a virtue for the Christians to whom James wrote his epistle, especially if the “near” event he advised them to patiently wait for wasn’t going to happen for at least another two millennia.

      James 5:7-9 Be patient, then, brothers and sisters, until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop, patiently waiting for the autumn and spring rains. You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord’s coming is near. Don’t grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

       
      • J.M.

        January 20, 2014 at 4:13 AM

        Martens,animal man,hi there,
        Re :James 5:7-9 Be patient, then, brothers and sisters, until the Lord’s coming……

        That words written in James 5: 7-9 are directed to me too. This I know. The lord’s coming is near, means to you what you have concluded it to mean. But let’s say for the sake of making a point, Jesus has returned & established his kingdom. It has sure brought peace on earth & good will toward men,RIGHT?? The deserts ARE blossoming as the rose RIGHT?? The lamb is laying down beside the lion, RIGHT?? Little children are leading bears around, RIGHT ?? This is the Kingdom of God I am waiting for, and what I just wrote and asked about is only part of the way it will be in the kingdom of God I want to be in & a part of. I don’t know how to hi-lite words like you do but I hope my using caps to EMPHASIZE a few words above will make you reconsider just a tad bit, your present belief. Remember, ALL scripture is……… what., give for what reasons. Maybe I am aware of other scriptures you are not aware of. Don’t be a cherry picker, animal man.

         
      • Yartap

        January 20, 2014 at 12:33 PM

        Greetings, Brother Jim,

        I find nothing grievous or derogatory nor misinformed about Martins’s offer. And you should not either (Please, re-read his words). His words are true. Jim, if you will notice, Martins admits that the “fulfillment” will “not happened even for at least another two millennia.” to my understanding of him. Martins is coming or has already come or been around to our way of thinking in faith. But, his offered verse gives to all great advice: “Don’t grumble against one another, brothers and sisters,”. Jim, I love you. Please allow others in their own time to come to the realization of the Word. We only plant seeds by sharing the Word.

        Blessings, Yartap.

         
  39. Yartap

    January 20, 2014 at 4:02 AM

    Greetings, Jetlag,

    You might be right. ;-) Ha! Ha! Let’s see: 3000 Roman solders from all the nation states jointed by 100,000 Syrians at the final fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. (Check Wikipedia, one source). But, I don’t doubt it, but I only know of 2 showing up and the other empires/nations that did not show up to make “all of the nations” to come against Jerusalem. But, you and I cannot prove it. And your declarations, as being so, does not make it true, for me.

    But, I can prove to you that Zechariah 14:1; Joel 2:31; Acts 2:17-21; 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-18 & 5:1-2; 2 Corinthians 1:14; and 2 Peter 3:8-10 are not speaking of the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. You see, JESUS WINS!!! in “the day of the Lord.” Jesus Christ destroys/defeats “all of the nations” for victory. During the day of the Lord, the sun darkens, and the moon does not give her light, and etc. after the Tribulation (Matt: 24:29), just like in Zech. 14:6. ;-) Digest that!

    So, let’s add this up: Romans 1 vs. Jerusalem 0. If this would have been the day of the Lord, then Rome would not have won. You see, Jesus wins in the day of the Lord. Go back and read your scriptures again. If this is the fulfillment, then where is Jesus? That’s sum good think-in, don’t you think? ;-) Let’s use some more of that think-in……

    Hebrews 10: 37, why would someone or anyone need PATIENCE, if something is coming in just a little while or shortly? Now THINK! :-)

    Here’s an assignment for you: Explain to me and others, if “all is fulfilled” in 70 A.D.; then where is Jesus Christ and God? Where is the new Jerusalem? Did we pass judgement from Christ or God? When did we pass? If we did not pass, then is earth the lake of fire? If it is, then where is Satan, because I want to kick his ASS!

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
    • J.M.

      January 20, 2014 at 4:28 AM

      @ You see, JESUS WINS!!!
      RIGHT !!! You’ve been to the mountain top too.

       
    • J.M.

      January 20, 2014 at 4:32 AM

      @ But, I can prove to you…..
      I doubt it. not that you. He is definitely not going to be confused with the real truth or facts

       
    • J.M.

      January 20, 2014 at 4:43 AM

      @ > because I want to kick his ASS!
      Sorry Yartap, this is something reserved for Jesus. Let’s not be usurpers.. Maybe he will let us kick his ass along with him kicking his ass. Excellent post. If Martens,a.k.a. animal man can say to Jetlag, Nice post, I can say to you, Yartap,Nice post, too

       
  40. Jetlag

    January 20, 2014 at 12:32 PM

    @Yartap >You see, JESUS WINS!!! in “the day of the Lord.”

    That’s correct. Jesus won in 70 AD.

    @Yartap >So, let’s add this up: Romans 1 vs. Jerusalem 0. If this would have been the day of the Lord, then Rome would not have won.

    Rome was on the same team as Jesus. The Roman legions were the instrument of his vengeance.

    Luke 21:19-28 In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

    The preceding is exactly what happened about 40 years later, in 70 AD.

    The reason why it happened:

    Luke 19:43-44 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

    In saying “the time of thy visitation”, Jesus was of course referring to himself and his own time.

    @Yartap >Hebrews 10: 37, why would someone or anyone need PATIENCE, if something is coming in just a little while or shortly?

    The Christians of that time needed patience because they were being persecuted, and put to death like Jesus, in Jerusalem and elsewhere. Enduring for even a little while under those conditions required patience.

    @Yartap >if all is fulfilled in 70 A.D.; then where is Jesus Christ and God?

    Jesus is with God in heaven.

    John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    @Yartap >Where is the new Jerusalem?

    The new Jerusalem is the bride of Christ, the church:

    Ephesians 5:28-32 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

    Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    Revelation 21:9-10 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

    @Yartap >If we did not pass, then is earth the lake of fire?

    The “lake of fire” of Revelation is not a literal lake of fire. The book of Revelation is written in an extremely metaphoric genre used by that ancient culture. And there is no reason think death and hell have been thrown into the lake of fire yet.

    Let me know if you have any more question. If you express them clearly enough so that I can understand what you’re asking (scriptural citations go a long way in this regard), I’ll be glad to help.

     
    • Yartap

      January 20, 2014 at 3:36 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      You err again with your understanding, so, if I may help you, Brother.

      I concur with the belief that the Lord called forth Rome to take Jerusalem in “the dayS of Vengeance,” which is not “the DAY of the Lord” (Christ’s second coming). The “day of the Lord” is a ONE DAY event, Zechariah 14: 7, as compared with the “DAYS of Vengeance.”

      In Luke 21:20-22, we find in “the days of vengeance” (Rome’s destruction of Jerusalem) that the Lord allows the people of Judea to “flee,” “depart out,” and not allow the people enter back into (the country; verse 21). Whereas, in “the day of the Lord,” (Christ’s second coming) we find that “half of the city will go into captivity,” and “the residue (remainder) of the people shall not be cut off (removed) from the city.” by the armies of all the nations, Zechariah 14: 2. Do you notice the difference in events, between the two battles or different “day” verses “days?”

      You continue to fail to notice, that after the days of Vengeance is “fulfilled,” then “the timeS of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” More time unto fulfillment must happen. Plus, Brother, you failed to place a paragraph at the start of Luke 21: 25, this is a pause to give the signs from the Lord of more things to come in future time, before his second coming.

      No – all the things written in Luke 21 did not come to pass at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in the dayS of Vengeance by the Romans in 70 A.D.

      And Nooooo, Jesus was not referring to himself in Luke 19: 44, when he said, “ because thou (Jerusalem) knewest not the time of thy (Jerusalem) visitation.” You must read the preceding verses to know and understand the full context of who Jesus is referring to. At the start of the paragraph, Luke 19: 41-42, we understand that Jesus is speaking to Jerusalem. This fact is confirmed in the side notes of the Geneva Bible, which I encourage you to use. I know, Brother Jetlag, that this can be trouble for us, in our reading and understanding.

      Hebrews 10: 37: No – refer back to my writing. The Patience was applied to the “short time” of the “promise” to come.

      John 14:1-3: Yes, Jesus is in heaven, agree! And his second coming is confirmed. But it did not happen in 70 A.D. So, all is not fulfilled, yet.

      You said, “The new Jerusalem is the bride of Christ, the church:” Now, that is an interesting concept. Thou, the verses you offer are unclear, now, for me. If I could be forward, with my understanding, as to what your concept is: Jesus and God are in heaven; the church is the body of Christ (two into one) that is with us, now; God and Christ are one, thus God and Christ will dwell with us in spirit through the new church which WILL/HAS replaced the old church, which was the body of Christ. If I’m close or not close to your thoughts, there are many more questions to be asked and answered; and the concept is a long stretch for me. But, I wish you would expound upon your thoughts more.

      You said, “And there is no reason (to) think death and hell have been thrown into the lake of fire yet.” So, would you agree that all is not fulfilled, YET? And what is the lake of fire in your mind? Your statement expounds upon your previous concept about the “bride” (Jerusalem; church) coming down. Because, death must be thrown into the lake of fire (done away with) before the coming of the new Jerusalem. More explanation is needed.

      Thanks, for your time and work.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • Jetlag

        January 20, 2014 at 5:42 PM

        @Yartap > The “day of the Lord” is a ONE DAY event

        Not necessarily. The scriptures often use “day” metaphorically such that it does not mean one 24-hour period. How long a metaphoric “day” is depends on context. For example:

        2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

        A day was equivalent to a year in the judgment against Edom:

        Isaiah 34:8 For it is the day of the Lord’s vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

        @Yartap >You continue to fail to notice, that after the days of Vengeance is “fulfilled,” then “the timeS of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

        You seem to be assuming the times of the gentiles are fulfilled soon after the days of vengeance. This assumption is not scriptural.

        @Yartap >At the start of the paragraph, Luke 19: 41-42, we understand that Jesus is speaking to Jerusalem.

        Of course. The “time of your visitation” means the time of the visitation of Jerusalem by Jesus. Because Jerusalem failed to recognize this visitation, but instead killed Jesus, vengeance would befall them.

        @Yartap >So, would you agree that all is not fulfilled, YET?

        It depends on the context of “all”. Often, when scripture speaks of “all” being fulfilled, it means all Old Testament prophesy. Or maybe all the prophesy relevant to the ongoing conversation. It depends on what “all” means in context.

        You asked about the lake of fire. According to my understanding, the lake of fire is a form of complete and final destruction, which includes the second death, and is still in the future.

        In the case of the original Babylon (corresponding to Jerusalem, a.k.a. “Babylon” in Revelation, in 70 AD), it was the armies of the Medes (corresponding to the Romans in 70 AD) who were the instruments of judgement.

        Isaiah 13

        1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

        […]

        6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

        7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man’s heart shall melt:

        8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

        9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

        10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

        […]

        13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

        […]

        17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

        We know that a day of the Lord also occurred in the first century AD, from several sources, including:

        Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord

        Since you say it’s unclear why the church and new Jerusalem are implied to be the same in the previously cited verses, I will explain. The logic is quite simple. The texts of these verses are posted in my previous comment. I recommend you read them and confirm for yourself what they state.

        1. The church is the bride of Christ. (Ephesians 5:28-32)

        2. The bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem. (Revelation 21:2 and Revelation 21:9-10).

        3. Therefore, given #1 and #2, the church is the new Jerusalem.

         
  41. Yartap

    January 21, 2014 at 12:09 AM

    Greetings, Jetlag,

    Yes – God’s time is a very different thing. What I was trying to demonstrate was how to recognize in difference: between the DAYS of Vengeance verses the DAY of the Lord.

    I am NOT the one who assumes the timeS of the Gentiles are fulfilled soon after the days of Vengeance. I’m the one who says that the timeS of the Gentiles will be many a long time up to the day of the Lord. Haven’t you been reading what I have written?

    You said, “In saying “the time of thy visitation”, Jesus was of course referring to himself and his own time.”

    No – Brother, you were incorrectly implying by your words and usage of Luke 19: 43-44 as the reason for Luke 21: 19-28, that Jesus was at the dayS of Vengeance, when you said, “referring to himself and his own time.”, as I read. You implied that Jesus was the “thy”, when in truth, it was Jerusalem, as it related back to Luke 21.

    Let me cut to the true meaning of Luke 19: 43-44, which means: Jesus is speaking to Jerusalem, about the Roman coming up against it, and Jerusalem does not know of when the Romans will make siege.

    Jetlag, Brother, stop resisting the truth. I know your heart. You know, full and well, what “All is fulfilled” means. Stop trying to cover up your misconceptions by trying to blind in confusion. I say this most kindly with love, Brother.

    You said, “[T]he lake of fire is a form of complete and final destruction, which includes the second death, and is still in the future.”

    I see the a good change in your heart, Jetlag. So, you believe “ALL is NOT fulfilled.”

    A quick reading of Revelation 18:9-17 shows Babylon is not Jerusalem. All the merchants of the world mourn over Babylon’s fall because it is a center of commerce. In 70 A.D. and before, Rome was the center of commerce (and I’m not saying Babylon is Rome, either). This is not the case with Jerusalem, nor would merchants mourn over her fall. In fact, Zechariah tells us that instead of mourning for Jerusalem, ALL nations of the earth will come against her to destroy her (Zech 14) and that the Lord will fight for her and then set up his Kingdom rule from there (Zech 14:3, 16-20). And this is just one point of this truth.

    And boy! Are you way off about the Medes. They helped to conqueror Babylon in 539 B.C. and went out of existence way, way before the time of Christ. Read Jeremiah 51.

    You said, “We know that a day of the Lord also occurred in the first century AD, from several sources, including: Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah (John the Baptist) the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.”

    Jetlag, STOP!!!! IT!!!! Days of vengeance -Yes. Day of the Lord – NO! Malachi 4:5 does not prove your contention. Its like a pretend prophecy made this way: I will send to America; George Washington before the coming of the great and dreadful day of nuclear war.

    Thanks, for your time and work.

    Blessings, Yartap.

     
  42. Jetlag

    January 21, 2014 at 1:37 AM

    @Yartap >”Let me cut to the true meaning of Luke 19:43-44, which means: Jesus is speaking to Jerusalem, about the Roman coming up against it, and Jerusalem does not know of when the Romans will make siege.”

    You’re joking, right? What the Romans did to Jerusalem was a lot more than a “visitation”. Let’s look at other translations:

    Luke 19:43-44

    (New International Version) “The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

    (New Living Translation) “Before long your enemies will build ramparts against your walls and encircle you and close in on you from every side. They will crush you into the ground, and your children with you. Your enemies will not leave a single stone in place, because you did not accept your opportunity for salvation.”

    @Yartap >”A quick reading of Revelation 18:9-17 shows Babylon is not Jerusalem.”

    On the other hand, a thorough reading of Revelation shows Babylon can only be Jerusalem. Here are two reason:

    Revelation 11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    Revelation repeatedly calls this great city “Babylon”.

    Revelation 18:21-24 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    The blood of the prophets can only be found in one “great city”, namely Jerusalem:

    Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    @Yartap >”Are you way off about the Medes. They helped to conqueror Babylon in 539 B.C. and went out of existence way, way before the time of Christ.”

    The prophesy I cited from Isaiah 13 is obviously not about Jerusalem. It explicitly says, even in a verse I quoted, that it’s about the original Babylon. Didn’t you read it?

    Malachi 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    So your interpretation of this passage is that either their hearts would be turned by Elijah, or God will come and smite the earth with a curse two millennia later?

    If so, it means you think the catastrophic destruction that befell “a wicked and adulterous generation” (Matthew 16:4) about 40 years later was just a coincidence as far as this prophesy is concerned.

     
    • Yartap

      January 21, 2014 at 11:37 AM

      Jetlag, I’m have trouble down loading my reply.

       
    • Yartap

      January 21, 2014 at 11:47 AM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      Luke 19:43-44, I stand corrected, Thank you, Brother.

      From the Geneva Bible about the “streets of the City” in Revelations 11:8, we find that it notes Rome as the City written about in the verse.

      Luke 13:33 is a great verse which links Jerusalem as being Babylon. But, I wonder, about the last phrase of Revelations 18: 24, “And in her (Rome) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.” That last phrase more than just Jerusalem.

      You said, “The prophesy I cited from Isaiah 13 is obviously not about Jerusalem. It explicitly says, even in a verse I quoted, that it’s about the original Babylon. Didn’t you read it?”

      I understood about the “original Babylon.” So, why did you offer it? To present what? What was your point?

      You said, “So your interpretation of this passage is that either their hearts would be turned by Elijah, or God will come and smite the earth with a curse two millennia later?”

      No Man knows when this will happen.

      You said, “If so, it means you think the catastrophic destruction that befell “a wicked and adulterous generation” (Matthew 16:4) about 40 years later was just a coincidence as far as this prophesy is concerned.”

      No, the prophets told of the day of vengeance, but “the day of the Lord” is not the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. as you contend.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
  43. J.M.

    January 21, 2014 at 11:15 AM

    What we have here, is a failure to communicate.

     
  44. Timmy

    January 25, 2014 at 9:32 PM

    Dear me, this thread is like the blind leading the blind… some helpful tips:

    Galatians is addressing the ceremonial (temporary pre-Christ) law, which was simply illustrative of the sacrifice to come in Christ. Hence, when that was complete in the Cross, no more need for ceremonial laws (animal sacrifice, temples, ad nauseum.) That is totally separate from the eternal ten commandment moral/relational Law (as in Exodus, Romans, etc.), which never changes, and indeed the violation of which is the exact reason Christ had to die for us. That is what sin is– Violation of God’s immutable moral law. (They’re actually principles… you might notice that they are in priority order, and that the first four address relationship to the Creator, and the last sixg relationship to your fellow man. So what of that exactly of them was nailed to the Cross??)

    Hopefully this will shed some light.

    Also, you may notice that the Rock in Daniel struck the babylonian statue on its feet. Ie, the Kingdom was established at His first coming. It is entirely distinct from earthly/human political Kingdoms, until of course His return when he will bring it in fully. “Babylon” was real and literal but in these passages addresses symbolically a religio-political system and philosophy that lives down through the ages. You may recognize it today by its hallmark: Man is God; You are God. The lie the enemy started right in the garden…

     
    • Yartap

      January 25, 2014 at 9:48 PM

      Greetings, Timmy,

      Very well said. I could not agree with you more.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • J.M.

        January 25, 2014 at 11:48 PM

        @ Very well said. I could not agree with you more.
        More than very well said, I do have one disagreement. I don’t believe Christ HAD TO die for us. He did so voluntarily. Greater love has no man than one who would lay down his life for his friends. This makes his sacrifice even more heart rendering. He really didn’t have to, but he did anyway.
        How precious, to me at least Timmy starts out, Dear me. I’m sorry but I had to laugh,Oh dear.

         
      • J.M.

        January 25, 2014 at 11:53 PM

        @Yartap >You see, JESUS WINS!!! in “the day of the Lord.”

        Jetlag says >That’s correct. Jesus won in 70 AD.

        I say, You just can’t beat Jesus Christ. I don’t care what year it is.

         
      • J.M.

        January 28, 2014 at 6:56 PM

        @ >Very well said. I could not agree with you more.
        Yartap, don’t you know what you just did,admitted,said?
        oh dear me.

         
    • J.M.

      January 25, 2014 at 11:25 PM

      @ Dear me, this thread is like the blind leading the blind… some helpful tips:
      HEEEEE HAWWWWW. Tell it like it is Timmy !! TRAGIC COMEDY !!!

       
  45. Jetlag

    January 26, 2014 at 3:35 AM

    @Yartap > But, I wonder, about the last phrase of Revelations 18:24, “And in her (Rome) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”

    You added to scripture. The word “Rome” is not in that verse. Here is what the verse actually says:

    Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    @Yartap > “That last phrase more than just Jerusalem.”

    Scripture disagrees with you. Scripture says only Jerusalem killed the prophets:

    Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    Elsewhere, Jesus made it clear that Jerusalem would be answerable for the blood of prophets, which, given Revelation 18:24, again means Jerusalem was the Babylon of Revelation:

    Matthew 23

    35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

     
    • Yartap

      January 26, 2014 at 2:12 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      I add nothing to scripture. I offered from the Geneva Bible what it said. You add by saying that all is fulfilled. Matthew 23 tells us about the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Revelations 18 tells us about what is described as Babylon (Great City) and which leads to Christ’s second coming, which has not happened; unless you can show us more information than you offer.

      As far as Rome is concerned from the Geneva Bible, I do not know if it is correct. For all I know, the scriptures could be referencing some other Great City of commerce, like New York or London or the Vatican.

      Please explain your explanation why we still die, if all is fulfilled. Read Rev. 20:14. What am I missing in understanding about death and hell being thrown into the lake of fire. Are we living, today, in the lake of fire? Or does death and hell stop existing in fulfillment? What are your thoughts?

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 2:31 PM

        @ Please explain your explanation why we still die, if all is fulfilled.
        Yes indeed, please do explain this especially when death is the LAST thing to be done away with.i.e, e.g., ABOLISHED Remember, there shall be no more death? People are dying as I type these words,& some have died just a few seconds ago.

         
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 2:43 PM

        @ I’ll try not to place a “s” on the end of Revelation. Thanks for the correction.

        My statement was not meant for you. The one it was meant for won’t answer it. just like he will not answer anything when it’s obvious he/she is mistaken. But for you,Yartap, you didn’t seem to see on the WWJD thread that I was trying HARD to let you know that my messages were only posted PARTIALLY POSTED. Some words in sentences did not post, just as if they had been deleted. & only half of my message did go through & the part that did go through was one mass cycle of confusion because of the deleted words. Who do you think caused this? Yes, it’s hard for me to believe too.

         
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 6:29 PM

        Yartap,
        My bad. I saw the ID of Jetlag & thought he/she made that statement.. I apologize. When I’m wrong I will admit it & apologize. Yes, it does make me ashamed of myself for being wrong. It makes me sad too.

         
    • J.M.

      January 26, 2014 at 2:13 PM

      @ >But, I wonder, about the last phrase of Revelations 18:24
      There is a Book of Revelation but where is this Book of RevelationS? Also a holiday is a 180 in meaning from Holy day. You said earlier,Re: Holidays, & then use God’s Feast days as only holidays,shame on you. Holidays are like MLK Jr. birthday, New Years day, Valentine day, Halloween,etc.

       
      • Yartap

        January 26, 2014 at 2:20 PM

        Greetings, Jim,

        I’ll try not to place a “s” on the end of Revelation. Thanks for the correction.

         
  46. Jetlag

    January 26, 2014 at 4:25 PM

    @Yartap > “I add nothing to scripture.”

    Why deny what is on the record for all to see? You added the word “Rome” to your quotation (in quotation marks) of Revelations 18:24. Scroll up, there it is.

    @Yartap > “You add by saying that all is fulfilled.”

    I quote scripture that says all is fulfilled. This is the only sort of case I try to make. You, on the other hand, cite the doctrines of men. Do you also claim to descend from a monkey because that’s the doctrine the powers of this world are pushing at the moment?

    Luke 21:20-22 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

    The people whom Jesus was addressing (with “ye shall see”) did in fact see Jerusalem compasses with armies, in the late-60s AD. Then it turned out the destruction of Jerusalem, which happened in 70 AD, was indeed nigh. Therefore, all was fulfilled in that era: according to scripture, not the doctrines of men.

    @Yartap > “For all I know, the scriptures could be referencing some other Great City of commerce, like New York or London or the Vatican.”

    Revelation 11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    Was the Lord crucified in New York or London or the Vatican?

    Revelation 18:21-24 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    Q: What is the only city in which has been found “the blood of the prophets”?

    Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    A: Jerusalem.

    @Yartap > “Please explain your explanation why we still die, if all is fulfilled.”

    I explain this already. The lake of fire is still in the future. When the gospels say something like “all things written are fulfilled”, it does not include prophesy specific to Revelation, because that book had not been written yet.

     
    • Yartap

      January 26, 2014 at 9:11 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      So, if one places quotation marks around a word or sentence, then that which is quoted is the writer’s word(s). I placed quotation marks around “Rome” to re-tell the reader that it came from the Geneva Bible. THINK! Jetlag.

      Luke 21:22, “[A]ll things which are written may be fulfilled.” about the destruction of Jerusalem. Then we have the fulfillment of the Gentiles, then the signs in the sun, moon and stars and then the return of Christ. And all things will NOT be fulfilled until we get a new Jerusalem. It is claimed by scholars that St. Luke wrote his Gospel after the destruction of Jerusalem.

      As noted by the Geneva Bible relating to Revelation 11:8, the city is noted as being “Rome.” This is also be noted by Roman history with the Roman doctrine about the city of Rome. The Roman republic was known to be governed by a “city-state” system. This city-state expanded into an empire, and it continued to govern ALL areas. In its glory days the word, “Rome,” meant just not the city, but the entire civilized world. This would include Jerusalem.

      Now, I contend that John would have written Rome, if he meant Rome. I stand corrected about New York and London, and maybe the Vatican. But, to say that our Lord died any other place than Jerusalem would be incorrect. Thus, the Two Witnesses must be in Jerusalem, or is it “Rome.”

      Once again, your offer of Revelation 18:21-24 proves Babylon is not Jerusalem, because in Babylon was found the blood “of ALL that were slain upon the earth.” Babylon has all, just not the prophets and saints.

      Your question, “Q: What is the only city in which has been found “the blood of the prophets”?”

      Answer: Babylon

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • J.M.

        January 26, 2014 at 9:32 PM

        will it be of any help to know that the original scriptures did not have chapter numbers and verse numbers? Every “Book” was like writing a letter and without chapter or page number.

        @As noted by the Geneva Bible…..
        Does this Geneva Bible you repeatedly mention have anything to do with Geneva, Switzerland? What makes this Bible so special?

         
    • J.M.

      January 26, 2014 at 9:15 PM

      There have been many things that have been fulfilled. That “Flood” in the days of, or while Noah was alive the, at one time, future promise of the Messiah that would come. This has been fulfilled, & other “events” have been fulfilled. What does forever mean? What is the meaning of “forever” to you? Maybe we understand that meaning alike. I hope so.

       
  47. Timmy

    January 26, 2014 at 5:29 PM

    Of course I didn’t mean to say He “had to” in the sense of being obligated to die for us, but rather the only way to pay the price was that blood sacrifice/death was required.

    I might also mention that all ceremonial laws were written on paper and kept outside the Ark, in obvious contrast to the eternal law which was carved in stone (permanent) and kept inside the Ark.

     
  48. J.M.

    January 26, 2014 at 6:56 PM

    Timmy,
    @ Your message on January 26, 2014 at 5:29 PM

    Well that’s the way I understand it too, Everything your message says. Isn’t it something how the same words can be understood to mean the exact opposite of the intent of/from the writer. IF we had been talking eyeball to eyeball, I would have asked, what do you mean by saying he “had to?”
    I guess we could say he did not have to but he had to IF the only way to pay the price was that blood sacrifice/death was required. Not very many people are aware that his death resulted from him bleeding to death. The BRUTAL beatings,etc. did not kill him. The life (LOVE) blood drained from his body is what killed him. You know this Timmy, I’m only saying this for someone else who may read this, but also knowing that the chances are of that are two, slim & no chance.

    You are precious to me Timmy
    Shalom, dear one.
    I’ll never forget, “Oh dear me” My comment preceding yours said, What we have here is, a failure to communicate.

     
  49. Jetlag

    January 26, 2014 at 10:17 PM

    @Yartap “Then we have the fulfillment of the Gentiles,”

    This does not follow. Scripture says the fulfillment of the gentiles comes after the fulfillment of the prophesies regarding earthly Jerusalem. But scripture does not specify how long after. To assume these two events are close in time is without scriptural basis.

    The prophesies of earthly Jerusalem being fulfilled in 70 AD does not mean this prophesy about the gentiles is also fulfilled.

    @Yartap “then the signs in the sun, moon and stars and then the return of Christ.”

    Correct, these things happened when they were prophesied to happen: in and shortly before 70 AD.

    @Yartap “And all things will NOT be fulfilled until we get a new Jerusalem.”

    Then you agree that “all things” are fulfilled, since, as I have previously shown in this thread, we already have the new Jerusalem.

    Once again:

    1. The church is the bride of Christ:

    Ephesians 5:28-32 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

    2. The bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem:

    Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    Revelation 21:9-10 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

    3. Therefore, because the church is the bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:28-32), and the bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2 and Revelation 21:9-10), the church is the new Jerusalem.

    And since we already have the church, we already have the new Jerusalem. Welcome to fulfilled eschatology.

    @Yartap “Answer: Babylon”

    Okay, since Jerusalem is Babylon, it is correct to say the blood of the prophets has only been found in Babylon.

    Now please address the other citation I have been using to identify the Babylon of Revelation:

    Could any place besides Jerusalem qualify as a “great city” where “our Lord was crucified” (Revelation 11:8)?

    If so, where, for example?

     
    • Yartap

      January 27, 2014 at 12:02 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      I , like you, do not assume the two events are close in time. I have point out this before.

      You said, “Then you agree that “all things” are fulfilled, since, as I have previously shown in this thread, we already have the new Jerusalem.”

      Yes, I agree that “all things” are fulfilled , since, with what is written about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. to that point. But, the new Jerusalem has not fulfilled, yet. Your offer of Ephesians 5: 28-32 gives proof that Christ and the church are already married, and Christ is head of the church as husband. Christ does not have to marry the church again. The church was established before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The church and new Jerusalem are not the same. All is NOT fulfilled as you say (lake of fire).

      The spirit of Babylon is a much greater concept of evil. This is seen with the verse with, “of ALL that were slain upon the earth.”, just not the prophet’s blood and many of the saint’s blood was given up outside of Jerusalem. Babylon includes Jerusalem and all cities and nations (Rev. 16: 17-21). Note verse 19, the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. The Geneva Bible notes calls the “great city” as the seat of Antichrist and has noted it in other verses as “Rome.” Has this happen, yet? Babylon is not Jerusalem. Jerusalem is only one small part of Babylon.

      Rev. 11: 8 only identifies that the Two Witnesses were killed in Jerusalem as the place of Christ’s death. It does not identify Babylon as Jerusalem. That’s all!

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
  50. Jetlag

    January 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM

    @Yartap > “Your offer of Ephesians 5:28-32 gives proof that Christ and the church are already married, and Christ is head of the church as husband.”

    Correct so far, but why do you fail to address my offer of Revelation 21:2 and Revelation 21:9-10 which give proof that the bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem?

    @Yartap > “Rev. 11:8 only identifies that the Two Witnesses were killed in Jerusalem as the place of Christ’s death. It does not identify Babylon as Jerusalem. That’s all!”

    I’ll interpret “that’s all!” as an admission that you have no real answer to my previous questions regarding this verse. These questions I paste below, verbatim from my previous post, just to be clear about what you can’t or won’t answer concerning the identity of the Babylon of Revelation:

    Could any place besides Jerusalem qualify as a “great city” where “our Lord was crucified” (Revelation 11:8)?

    If so, where, for example?

    The first is a Yes or No question. If your answer is Yes, then a single place name suffices for the second question.

     
    • Yartap

      January 27, 2014 at 4:41 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      You said, “… but why do you fail to address my offer of Revelation 21:2 and Revelation 21:9-10 which give proof that the bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem?”

      I concur, I find no need to expound upon a given.

      Jetlag, once again you interrupt wrong. I have given you plenty of answers for Rev. 11:8. I have concurred that the great city which the Two Witnesses were in is Jerusalem. Don’t you read and understand what I write? I told you I stood corrected by your point.

      But, your contention that Babylon is Jerusalem is incorrect! And you said that the fulfillment of the Gentiles was SOON in a previous post. This is, also, incorrect, the fulfillment of the Gentiles continues today. As a reminder, I said…..

      “The spirit of Babylon is a much greater concept of evil. This is seen with the verse with, “of ALL that were slain upon the earth.”, just not the prophet’s blood and many of the saint’s blood was given up outside of Jerusalem. Babylon includes Jerusalem and all cities and nations (Rev. 16: 17-21). Note verse 19, the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. The Geneva Bible notes calls the “great city” as the seat of Antichrist and has noted it in other verses as “Rome.” Has this happen, yet? Babylon is not Jerusalem. Jerusalem is only one small part of Babylon.”

      Now, Jetlag, would you like to address Rev. 16: 17-18. I would kindly wish to hear your views.

      Jetlag, I have seen a slow change, from the beginning of our discussions to now, in your view (fulfillment and such). Am I wrong?

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
  51. Jetlag

    January 27, 2014 at 5:30 PM

    @Yartap > “I concur, I find no need to expound upon a given.”

    In that case, since you do not dispute that Revelation 21:2 and Revelation 21:9-10 establish the bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem, you concede that the church (which is the bride of Christ according to Ephesians 5:28-32) is the new Jerusalem.

    Now you are asking me some questions. I will address them after you finally get around to an unambiguous response to the following question concerning the identity of the Babylon of Revelation which I now post for the third time:

    Could any place besides Jerusalem qualify as a “great city” where “our Lord was crucified” (Revelation 11:8)?

    [ ] Yes
    [ ] No

     
    • Yartap

      January 27, 2014 at 10:36 PM

      Greetings, Jetlag,

      Nay, Nay, New Jerusalem is not the Church as you theorize. As I have shown, the church has existed from the past unto today and will continue. New Jerusalem does not exist now; just like, as you said, “The lake of fire is still in the future.” What you have missed, is that the church is the body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22-23). And I believe that Christ is married to the church by logic (Ephesians 5: 23-24).

      Now, modern day Jerusalem (the so-called “city of Peace;” which it is not peaceful, today) is not the Lamb’s bride. Would you agree? For Jerusalem is a small part of Babylon along with many other cities and nations. The new Jerusalem, a TRUE “city of Peace,” descends from heaven and is married to the Lamb. So, we have two wives: the church and the only great city, new Jerusalem. Have you ever heard of Polygamy?

      Now, to give clues to prove Babylon is not Jerusalem; and see some features of the city of Babylon let’s read these verses: ….

      Revelation 14: 8 speaks of the city of Babylon and says,“And there followed another Angel, saying, Babylon that great city is fallen, it is fallen: for she made ALL NATIONS to drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

      Jerusalem in 70 A.D. had no such power over all nations, then, before or after.

      Revelation 17:18 speaks of the city of Babylon and says, “And that woman which thou sawest, is that great city which reigned over the kings of the earth.”

      Jerusalem was rule over by the Romans before and after 70 A.D. Jerusalem ruled over no one at, before or after that time nor today.

      Revelation 18:19 speaks of the city of Babylon and says, “And they (merchants) cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that GREAT CITY, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of HER COSTLINESS! for in ONE HOUR is she made desolate.”

      So, we read that Babylon has a coastline (“costliness”) or many coastlines; and the city is destroyed in ONE HOUR, unlike Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. Nor does Jerusalem have any coastline, unless you talk about Judah or Judaea.

      Revelation 18:21 speaks of the city of Babylon and says, “And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and CAST IT INTO THE SEA, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be FOUND NO MORE AT ALL.”

      Jerusalem was not cast into the sea and found no more at all in 70 A.D. or after.

      You asked, “Could any place besides Jerusalem qualify as a “great city” where “our Lord was crucified” (Revelation 11:8)?” Answer: YES and NO, in my mind at this time; because there are Biblical references to the “great city” as being Rome and the further given context of verses; and you have given “our Lord was crucified.
      There is a possibility that Christ starts his battle east of Jerusalem which causes the great city of Babylon to fall which is at a different location.

      “Could any place besides Jerusalem qualify as a “great city?” Answer: YES!
      There are reference to other “great city(ies)” in scripture besides Jerusalem and Babylon, read Joshua 10:2 and Jonah 1:2. So, other great cities existed.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
      • J.M.

        January 27, 2014 at 11:37 PM

        @ >”…….and the city is destroyed in ONE HOUR,……”

        Sounds like it could be nuclear war at work.
        DON’T RESPOND, you have a full plate.

         
    • J.M.

      January 27, 2014 at 11:52 PM

      @ >Could any place besides Jerusalem qualify as a “great city” where “our Lord was crucified” (Revelation 11:8)?

      NO !!! Maybe the deep thinkers could understand your question, if you asked, What is the name of the city where our lord was crucified?
      No response is necessary, you have a full plate too

       
  52. Timmy

    January 27, 2014 at 10:08 PM

    I would say we are in the ‘engagement’ or betrothal period. the wedding ceremony and consummation are yet to come, since the Groom must return for His bride; he has not come yet… and yes, that is the scene portrayed in Revelation; a simple expository exploration shows the angel explaining who the city is.

    Thanks for your kind comments. I would hope that all of us would come to knowledge. I have much to learn, and much more to live up to…

     
    • Jetlag

      January 27, 2014 at 11:46 PM

      @Timmy “I would say we are in the ‘engagement’ or betrothal period.”

      I would say nearly 2,000 years is way too long for a betrothal, neither is there a scriptural basis for such a long wait.

      It is evident that Paul was of the same opinion, because he, in his inspired writing, lead the church at Corinth to expect its wedding to Christ would occur during his lifetime:

      2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

       
      • J.M.

        January 28, 2014 at 2:09 AM

        @that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
        Is there any chance this presentation could or may take place after the FIRST resurrection ?

         
    • Yartap

      January 29, 2014 at 1:53 PM

      Greetings, Timmy,

      The new Jerusalem is not the church. The churches are still with us today. Old Jerusalem still exist. The earth and heaven have not pasted away, yet (Rev. 21:1); and new Jerusalem has not appeared from heaven.

      I have always been the type to not take anybodies’ word or direction without confirmation. I really started this when I discovered a former preacher of mine picking verses and giving them new meaning or taking them out of context. I don’t allow others to tell me what I can read and what I cannot read. I am studying the books of the Bible that were rejected. No, so-called, religious authority of man will dictate to me. I only submit myself to the Word of God, the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ, and GOD. Of course, I and others cannot confirm everything. But, I and others continue to seek.

      I have found that with patience, diligence, repeated reading, open ears and mind, relying upon the Lord for guidance, and prayer things are revealed to me in His time. These are the truest methods that work for me. Some of the greatest revelations that have been given to me come from others, just like me, who express their beliefs. Just simple believers coming together to seek the Lord. I look upon it, like it is said in scripture, as children coming to God for answers. Isn’t that what we are to do?

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
  53. Timmy

    January 28, 2014 at 9:59 PM

    Umm, Paul’s comment is quite obviously future tense…
    Parallel to his comment “that I may be found acceptable on that day…”, etc.

     
    • J.M.

      January 28, 2014 at 11:26 PM

      @January 28, 2014 at 9:59 PM
      @Umm, Paul’s comment is quite obviously future tense…
      Parallel to his comment “that I may be found acceptable on that day…”, etc.

      OH DEAR ME !!! I may be communicating with a “Spiritual” Soul Mate. Maybe mate is not the proper word. but on the other hand, I am called “Mate” by some of my Australian friends.

       
    • Yartap

      January 29, 2014 at 2:08 PM

      Greetings, Timmy,

      1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 speaks about what happens to the dead in Christ and to those who are still alive. “According to the Lord’s word, We (Paul and apostles) tell you that we (believers in Christ) who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep (died before us).” This does not prove that the “We” who are still alive nor who are left are Paul or any hearing him. It only applies to those (“we”) who are still alive and left.

      Blessings, Yartap.

       
  54. Jetlag

    January 29, 2014 at 1:06 AM

    @JM > “Is there any chance this presentation could or may take place after the FIRST resurrection ?”

    Not that I’m aware of. Do you know of any scripture to support such a theory?

    @Timmy > “Umm, Paul’s comment is quite obviously future tense…”

    Of course Paul’s comment is future tense. He’s referring to a future event in which he, and those he is addressing, will take part (“…I may present you…”).

    Paul also wrote elsewhere to the church about this near-future event which would occur in his, and his audience’s, lifetimes:

    1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

     
    • J.M.

      January 29, 2014 at 1:38 AM

      Shalom Jetlag,
      Isn’t it also written in the Holy Bible that Flesh & blood will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Are you aware that The Apostle Paul was executed & for his Christian beliefs ? Was Paul flesh & blood when he died? Is this Bride of Christ composed of flesh & blood? Well I already know what your answer is to that. Jetlag you have an enormous amount of “physical” understanding and your physical understanding exceeds your spiritual understanding. Your carnal mind is sharper than a brand new Jetlet, excuse me, Gillette razor blade but your spiritual understanding is a little lacking. However, mine is too so please don’t think I am trying to put you down. We all should be trying to lift each other up
      @ we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, …….”
      You,Jetlag & I may very well be alive THEN, at THAT coming. I hope both of us will be included in the “WE”
      Strange, but I have a feeling this is the beginning again, of my comment going through in part, and not completely

       
      • Jetlag

        January 29, 2014 at 2:25 AM

        @JM

        Since you have no scripture to the contrary, the plain meaning of this verse – i.e. that Paul expected Christ’s wedding to the church to occur within the plausible lifetimes of himself and those he was addressing – stands:

        2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

        The relevance of Paul using “we” when he wrote “we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:17) is that he expected the event in question to occur in the near future. He evidently did not know the extent of his own life span. If he expected the event he was describing to occur 2,000 years later, he would not have included himself as a participant.

        @JM > “You, Jetlag & I may very well be alive THEN, at THAT coming.”

        Impossible, since this event already happened. Yet another proof of this fact appears later in the same letter to the Thessalonians. If the day of the Lord was to occur 2,000 years in the future when Paul wrote this letter, the following warning would be superfluous. On the other hand, it is very appropriate if the day of the Lord would occur during the lifetimes of those he was addressing:

        1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

         
      • Yartap

        January 29, 2014 at 2:27 PM

        Now, where have I heard that phase, “Peace and Safety” from others? Oh yea, Israel’s UN ambassador, and Jonathan Sacks, and others.

         
  55. J.M.

    January 29, 2014 at 3:07 AM

    @ Since you have no scripture to the contrary, the plain meaning of this verse stands.

    But I do have a brain & I do have some common sense.Do I have to say the bible says this & that & give the scriptures that say this & that? You would not say prove it would you? OH NO.And we both know why you would not say, prove it. Once again, I am convinced that Paul WILL make that “presentation” AFTER he is resurrected along with the OTHERS resurrected in the FIRST RESURRECTION which I believe, at this time,you,Jetlag believe has already happened too.

    @ But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
    As Ronald Reagan would say, there you go again. See,Jetlag, the way you understand it, the brothers & sisters ONLY applied to the brothers & sisters of/in Paul’s day & time. What do WE need the Bible for then IF this is true? None of it applies to you & me the way you,Jetlag see it. Look Jetlag, you are NOT going to deceive me. so quit trying. You know what? From what I have “seen” in Timmy’s words, I believe Timmy understands like I do because Timmy doesn’t use the carnal mind. Timmy has a “spiritual” understanding. As I said before, Flesh & blood cannot & WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God. Do you need the scripture that says this? This Bride will be composed of Spirit beings. Do you need the scripture that says this? BUT, once again, you will have to use your brain along with some common sense to understand this.

     
  56. Jetlag

    January 29, 2014 at 9:20 AM

    @J.M.

    I see the argument you’re making: “My position is right, and yours is wrong, because I have a brain, common sense, and spiritual understanding, whereas you lack, or are very deficient in, all of these.”

    Yet somehow I’m the one making an argument solidly based on scripture, whereas you are giving a rambling demonstration of several textbook fallacies of logic: especially, but not limited to, appeal to (non-scriptural) authority, appeal to “common sense”, assuming (and constantly reiterating, as if that proves anything) your foregone conclusion, and the infamous ad hominem flop.

    Yeah, that ad hominem fallacy definitely got a workout in this thread.

    That you would expect the high-level readers of this thread to not see through such antics is an insult to their intelligence, not to mention the contempt such littering shows for the notable professor who runs this blog.

    Get well soon.

     
    • J.M.

      January 29, 2014 at 10:03 AM

      Jetlag, good morning
      @ I see the argument you’re making: “My position is right, and yours is wrong,……….”
      Well, which is it?
      @ Get well soon.
      Thanks. My physical health is below par………too.

      I’m going to give you the last word. I think there’s an old saying that says the last man standing WINS, so go ahead & make the last stand & win the battle. I think it’s more important to win the war. I will agree with you about one thing. Since my posts are considered ad hominem fallacy(s), I will only make, or try to make one more & that one will be to Christian Gains. AND I certainly never intended to show contempt for the notable professor who runs this blog.but apparently I have. How? I don’t know. You say I have & since you are never mistaken I have to accept you are right. I hope he forgives me. But if this comment is allowed to go through, as I said, I will try to make one more to Christian Gains & then it’s goodby friends. Shalom to/for you Jetlag.

       
      • J.M.

        January 29, 2014 at 10:06 AM

        Oh I forgot, I have to let a Poster by the name of Peter know the latest info about something he & I are working on. THEN that will be it.

         
      • J.M.

        February 8, 2014 at 4:40 PM

        @ >& then it’s goodby friends.
        I forgot to put quotation marks around, friends. Those are the ones I meant I will be saying goodbye to. Harsh words never further the work of “God.” This is something I am trying to work on,myself. I am not one of the ELECT like some on this blog are, or claim to be, anyway.

         
  57. J.M.

    January 31, 2014 at 2:13 PM

    @ high-level readers (< courtesy of Jetlag who does make valuable comments re: some other subject matter(s) but somewhat lacking, in understanding, SOME Scriptures in the Holy Bible, but he & I have that much in common anyway. I don't understand some scriptures either)

    There are high level "readers" & low level" understanders" of their high level reading.What a high level reader means is, he/she reads a lot & more than a lot. It is top priority in his/her life.Reading is on the top shelf. Understanding "all" this high level reading is on the bottom shelf but some, or at least ONE high level reader will disagree.

     
  58. dejure

    October 19, 2014 at 11:51 AM

    Taking a moment out to learn of corporations and to ponder the information, it seems one could not help but note interesting, if not alarming, facts about corporations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation).

    Note, for example:

    Early corporations were grants of monopoly power to a single person (corporation), making clear ultimate power held by one person over others could and was abused to the detriment of all but the one(s) granted the monopoly.

    On liabilities of the artificial person, enactments of law allowed the wealthy to limit their losses, while free to enjoy infinite gains on their gamble for wealth.

    The ancient East India Trading Company aside, early incorporations included the pope. Since those days, countless churches followed that example and sought permission from government to exist.

    While many call it “just good business sense,” the fact remains the right to establish and exercise religion was antecedent to and protected by both federal and state constitutions.

    Seeking exemption from liabilities or special status from man’s government(s), however, carries a price. For example, the artificial person exists only at the pleasure of that government.

     

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