America’s Economic Dilemma

06 Feb

DollarsBurning1I just received an email from a reader who claims that the only way out of our current economic problems is to repudiate the existing debt.  He argued that repudiating the debt was justified by the fact that the entire National Debt is based on fraud.  More, he compared repudiating the national debt with the “Jubilee” in the Old Testament wherein every 50 years, all debts were cancelled.   I replied as follows:

Simply repudiating the debt would work fine if our monetary system was still based on precious metals.  We could eliminate the debt but our economy would still retain the assets (gold & silver coins)–although they might be in other people’s hands.

The reason the Old Testament people could have a Jubilee every 50 years and wipe out all the debt is that those Old Testament people used an asset-based (gold, silver, even cattle) monetary system.  When the Jubilee occurred (every 50 years), it didn’t destroy the assets.  However much assets (gold, silver, cattle) existed within the local economy, tribe or nation before the Jubilee began, would remain in the economy after the Jubilee had ended.

The Jubilee would only move ownership of those assets from the rich bankers back to the ordinary people.  The Jubilee was essentially an attack on the oligarchy, on the rich bankers who understood the nature of money and would become fabulously wealthy and assume enormous power if their wealth was allowed to grow indefinitely.  When the Jubilee wiped out all debts every 50 years, it essentially wiped out the debt-obligations held by the rich bankers and prevented the nation from becoming an oligarchy.  So long as there was a Jubilee,the bankers were allowed to prosper, but they were not allowed to rule.

Under the Jubilee, while all of the debts were eliminated, all of the assets (gold, silver, cattle) remained in the economy.  So long as the assets remained, the economy could easily survive and even prosper.  The only change was ownership of the assets which shifted from the bankers to the ordinary people.

Of course, the ordinary people would behave like a bunch of fools, have a big holiday, get drunk, squander their newly-acquired wealth, and soon be back in debt to the bankers who understood the nature of money.  But, at the end of another 50 years, there’d be another Jubilee, and once again the smart bankers would lose their assets to the people.

Today, however, we have a debt-based (rather than asset-based) monetary system.  We treat our debts as assets rather than liabilities.  The whole concept is insane and certain to fail badly–but that’s what we have.

With a debt-based monetary system, for every debt, there’s a correlative paper debt-instrument that’s signed by the debtor and which memorializes that debt.  Those paper debt-instruments are treated as assets.  If I borrow $100,000, the lender keeps a piece of paper with my signature on it that promises to repay $100,000 plus interest.  The lender treats that signed, paper debt-instrument as an asset. If you ask him about his net worth, he’ll say “I’m worth $100,000 because I have a piece of paper signed by Alfred Adask that promises to repay $100,000 to me.”

It’s critical to understand that every debt is purported to have created a correlative paper “asset”.  Thus, the more debt we create, the richer our nation becomes. Again, this entire concept is insane (or at least fraudulent), but when we allowed our government to violate the Constitution and subject us to a pure fiat currency, we implicitly authorized that national insanity.

Now, if we repudiate any of the debt, the correlative debt instruments (which we treat as assets) will become worthless.

It’s not like the Jubilee where, if we repudiate our debts, the assets will still remain in our economy. If we repudiate our debts, we also destroy the corresponding paper assets.  Once those paper assets have disappeared, where do we find the capital to build a new factory, grow crops or buy a new flat-screen TV on credit?  Without paper debt instruments, there are no paper assets.  Without paper assets, there’s no basis for credit, no basis for buying products, producing products, growing food.  The whole society can degenerate into a mindless, starving, unemployed, violent chaos.

In a debt-based monetary system, we can’t repudiate the debt without also repudiating the paper assets (US bonds, stocks, pension funds, savings accounts, paper dollars, etc.) that we treat as “assets”.  That’s why we support “too big to fail banks”.  They’re not really “too big”; they’re too indebted.  If they go bankrupt, they destroy so much correlative paper assets that the entire US economy may collapse.

Thus, if we repudiated the “official” National Debt of $17.2 trillion, we would thereby also repudiate $17.2 trillion in paper assets currently held by US and foreign investors.  That loss of paper assets might be survivable, but it would still be devastating for the US and world economies.

If we repudiate the “actual” National Debt (which John Williams of currently estimates to be nearly $90 trillion), I doubt that the US or global economy could survive.

Thus, the U.S. government, American people and even the world are caught in a terrible dilemma.  We can’t possibly repay the existing debt in full.  I’d guesstimate that we can’t repay more than 10% to 20% of the existing debt.  But, we also can’t repudiate the existing debt without also destroying our illusion of paper assets.

The government has no choice other than to try to continue to issue ever more debt to try to keep the system afloat.

But, sooner or later, the government will be unable to borrow more currency to go deeper into debt.  Once the government can’t borrow and create more debt (and thereby create more paper assets), the whole damned system will implode, people will starve, riots will ensue, martial law may be tried (I doubt that it will succeed) and our nation may devolve into chaos and violence.

We are screwed and we can’t escape that fate.  We’ve been screwed ever since our government and Federal Reserve subjected us to a pure fiat currency and we were dumb enough to accept that paper “reality” without question.  Our national bankruptcy is inevitable.  We may be able to postpone that fate, but probably not much longer.

If we still had our gold in Ft. Knox, etc., we might be able to escape the coming economic collapse.  We could issue a new currency backed by gold at the rate of, say, $25,000 or $50,000 per ounce of gold.  We’d still have real, tangible, liquid assets that we could lend and use to rebuild our economy and nation.

But there’s good reason to believe that our government and the Federal Reserve have already dissipated our former 8,200 tons of gold.

If the gold is gone, and if the government can’t borrow any more currency so as to go deeper into debt (and thereby create more paper assets), there’s no earthly way to escape the coming debacle that I’m able to understand or imagine.

We’re heading for a national, perhaps global, catastrophe.  We won’t avoid that catastrophe by repudiating our debts.  Instead, by repudiating our debts, we will cause that catastrophe. But our debts are already so enormous, that they can’t be paid in full.  That means that, one way or another, we must repudiate the debt (and the correlative paper assets) and watch our economy collapse.

There’ll be no easy way to survive the coming collapse.

However, given that heart of our economic problem is the loss of assets, it would seem incumbent on all who agree with this analysis to acquire as much gold and silver (real money; real assets) as you can find before the collapse occurs–and then hang on tight.

After the collapse (absence of most assets) begins, whatever few liquid assets remain will be in high, even desperate, demand.  The price of such real assets should skyrocket.  One ounce of gold might pay for the equivalent of a new Cadillac.  Three or four ounces of gold could buy a new house.  One ounce of gold might be enough to feed you and your family for a year. 10 ounces of gold might be enough to buy controlling interest in a local business.  50 ounces of gold might be enough to buy such a big chunk of the stock market, that you or your heirs will become fabulously wealthy after the economic collapse is ended and the nation begins to slowly rebuild.

And, rebuild, we will (unless, of course, we’re in end times and you should be praying rather than reading this article).

But first (before we see an legitimate recovery) we’re going to go through 5 to 10 years of national austerity and economic depression that will make your ears bleed.

More than likely, if the Greater Depression hasn’t already begun, it will soon start and become undeniable.  Those of you who are hanging onto paper assets will probably be ruined.  Those of you who are hanging onto tangible assets like gold and silver may survive with the least stress.


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144 responses to “America’s Economic Dilemma

  1. Applessence

    February 6, 2014 at 11:35 AM

    isn’t the entire “national debt” actually the debt of the private corporation ‘UNITED STATES, located in District of Columbia, and NOT the debt of either the American People or The United States of America, c.1777? Aren’t ‘US citizens’ ASSUMING the debt is ‘theirs’, as that is what they have been led to believe, even though GovCo, as a private corporation, is no different than WalMart or JP Morgan ( Clearfield Doctrine, US Supreme Court 1942) and is responsible for its own debt?

    Why does everyone ASSUME the debt is the debt of the people, when GovCo is a PRIVATE corporation, like any other private corporation? Is WalMart’s or JC Penney’s debt the problem of the people?

    The “United States” is a Corporation:
    “A citizen of the United States is a citizen of the federal government …”
    Kitchens v. Steele, 112 F.Supp 383

    SECTION 9301- 9342

    9307. (h) The United States is located in the District of Columbia.

    UNITED STATES CODE, TITLE 28, PART VI, CHAPTER 176, SUB CHAPTER A, Sec. 3002. Definitions (15)(A), p. 564 ”United States” means –
    (A) a Federal corporation;
    (B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
    (C) an instrumentality of the United States

    The following is from the Congressional Record of March 17, 1993:
    “It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress session of June 5, 1933 – Joint Resolution to Suspend the Gold Standard and Abrogate the Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States governmental offices, officers, and departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.”

    Maybe I a missing something important here? ; )

    • Adask

      February 6, 2014 at 12:42 PM

      I think you may be missing the following important point: IT DOESN’T MATTER whether the National Debt was issued by a legitmate government or some sort of de facto, criminal or fraudulent “government” (or even by the “reptilians” from Alpha Centauri).

      IT DOESN’T MATTER who ISSUED the debt. What matters is who HOLDS he correlative paper debt-instruments as “ASSETS”.

      What matters is that a whole bunch of people are holding the correlative debt-instruments (US bonds) and treating those debt-instruments as ASSETS. If the debt is repudiated, those people, institutions, pension funds and banks holding the correlative debt-instruments (U.S. bonds) will suddenly find themselves impoverished.

      The National Debt is, in and of itself, irrelevant, even insignificant. But what’s critical are the correlative debt-instruments (bonds). If the National Debt is cancelled, all of the correlative bonds become worthless. If those bonds are suddenly worthless, the banks go broke, the pension funds go broke, the assets we need to make loans to build more businesses, grow crops, and buy new cars suddenly disappear. Without those paper assets, the economy collapses and people begin to starve and then riot.

      It’s not about the DEBT; it’s about the correlative paper debt-instruments that we stupidly treat as ASSETS.

      Once we admit that we can’t pay the National Debt, or the government admits that it can’t pay the National Debt, or the reptilians admit that they can’t pay the National Debt, somewhere between $15 trillion and $90 trillion in paper “assets” will vaporize and disappear forever. The loss of those presumed “assets” will collapse the economy and perhaps even destroy whatever remains of our “nation”.

      And we have no choice. We are so deeply conditioned and ensnared into the illusion of fiat money that we can’t escape–at least not painlessly.

      We’re headed for a moment when people are forced to recognize that their stack of U.S. bonds are worthless; that their stack of U.S. paper dollars are worthless. When people are forced to recognize that much or all of the PAPER wealth they thought they had is nothing but an illusion, we will see a rash of rich folk jumping out windows in skyscrapers or putting a gun to their heads. But we’ll also seen much of the middle class and poor people suddenly unemployed, starving and desperate enough to kill to get just one more meal.

      Get it? It’s not about the debt, per se–it’s about the paper debt-instruments that we mistakenly treat as ASSETS. Cancel the National Debt, and you’ll lose your national “assets”. Lose the national assets, and the national economy will grind to a halt and people will starve, kill and die.

      But, note that I’m only using these extreme possibilities to try to illustrate my argument. I’m not trying to sell fear. I’m not saying that things will necessarily go that badly. I’m saying that things could go that badly. It all depends on how much of the National Debt is finally repudiated. If government repudiates 10% of the National Debt, we’ll probably survive without too much trouble. If the government repudiate 90% of the National Debt, I believe we’ll collapse into chaos and The United States of America might even disintegrate into several smaller nations.

      The “worst case” scenario is, by definition, always the least likely scenario. It could happen, but more than likely, things won’t be THAT bad.

      With or without an economic collapse, my point is that if we wipe out the National Debt, we also destroy a huge chuck of the national “assets”. If we lose those presumed “ASSETS,” we’re heading into a very difficult economic period.

    • Harry Skip Robinson

      February 6, 2014 at 12:47 PM

      You are correct in my opinion. The Constitution has been abrogated so many times that it is very difficult to argue that we are any longer a “lawfully” constituted government. I have been calling for a Voluntary Association of Jurists make up of thousands or people to overrule the corrupt appellate courts. Obviously, It would not be legally binding but public opinion over time could place a huge amount of pressure on the entire judicial system. I personally have never seen any other method that has any potential of working. My contention is that the courts will always assist the ruling oligarchs in maintain their political and economic power and until you can sever the cord, you will never break the proverbial bank. Those who control the money have always controlled the law. For some of my ideas:

      • UglyTruth

        February 6, 2014 at 3:03 PM

        The Constitution was based on the fiction that by it “Justice” was established, and depended on then representation of “Citizens”. The existence of justice was already recognized by the common law, it was not something that people could establish. Citizenship as an protective arrangement involving the state was in conflict with the common law because of the first commandment of Exodus 20. The ten commandments of Exodus 20 were at the head of the legal code of King Alfred the Great. His legal code was central to English common law.


    February 6, 2014 at 12:24 PM

    America “Economic Dilemma” was foretold in HIS word!

    Deuteronomy 28 is to the Children of ISRAEL! READ IT!
    What America was >>>
    Deuteronomy 28:12 The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

    And WHAT America has become>>>
    Deuteronomy 28:43-44 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail”.

    And that stranger is EDOM. In Scripture were it refers to ISRAELS Enemy, they are most of the time EDOM! When the people decide that the facts do matter about who has gained control of the Western Nations Economic, Foreign and Domestic Policies, research this fact filled expose’ about EDOM.

    Here are those that are manipulating all Economic, Foreign and Domestic Policies in the political realm and the destruction of Nationalism World Wide!

  3. Steve

    February 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM

    8200 tons of gold at $1,250 per ounce (approximate gold price Feb 6, 2014), covers only 1.76% of the government’s claim of a $17 million national debt. At that rate, gold would have to be $71,096 per ounce to offset the $17 trillion of debt that USA corp claims which is 466,392 ordinary tons of gold. It was reported in 2011 ( that there were only 181,881 ordinary tons of gold mined in all of human history, so if the USA had all the gold in the world, it could only cover 39% of the $17 million debt.

    • Harry Skip Robinson

      February 6, 2014 at 1:23 PM

      Good analysis. It is well documented that the Major Banks, Wall Street and the trading houses have manipulate gold and silver for years. When the price does finally break out of their clutches, I will hope that I have enough. People should be buying as much as the can at these levels and even higher if necessary until it really breaks out. Make sure to buy and take possession and never ever give the government your gold and silver.

      • J.M.

        February 8, 2014 at 8:54 PM

        Hello Skip,
        @ >Shouldn’t that be in Fort Knox rather than in the Bank of Hawaii?
        I prefer, The Bank of America. The Bank of We the people.

  4. Harry Skip Robinson

    February 6, 2014 at 12:55 PM

    Great article – It is my opinion as well, that the US and other heavily indebted countries with little or no gold an silver reserves are going to go through the most difficult period, perhaps in the last several hundred years. Much more difficult than the 1st Depression, for many reasons. Various elements of fascism are already starting to come to light. Militarization of the police and the abrogation of Posse Comitatus are the most obvious.

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 7:53 PM

      My dear friend Skip,
      @>One suggestion, less acronyms.

      It is great to have a friend who really tries to help another in a positive way. Thanks Skip. I went to my “search bar” & typed in the word, acronym. I did not know what an acronym is, & now after your suggestion, I still don’t know for sure if I do. From what I can understand, it is an abbreviation of a word.Will you,Skip,be so kind as to give me a couple of examples of how & what I should eliminate?
      I sincerely appreciate your “kind of help.” Fact is, you are the only one who has offered to help me in this way. Yartap has helped me in a couple of other ways. Once again, thanks. How do I say, thanks from my heart?

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 8:23 PM

      “your right Mr. Doe, but that’s not how the system works”
      Enuff said

      Skip, when I comment regarding any message from you, IF that particular message from you,does not have a Reply button, I scroll up to the next message from you that does have a Reply button., click on it. By doing this, does this make my comment to you,chronologically out of order & maybe confusing? What should I do, if i see a message from you that I would like to comment on, & that particular message from you does not have a Reply button in red letters in the bottom right hand corner? It appears I have 2 choices, 1 as I just mentioned, or, 2, scroll all the way to the end of the thread & write my message.there & post it. Boy, these computer terms, thread,boot, reboot, post. I am dumb as a post, I know that but as I tried to explain to Mladen, I’m uh lurn-nunn

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 13, 2014 at 3:58 PM

        J.M. I have a similar dilemma. Sometimes I want to answer you and have everyone else read it also. I think it depends on how the blog is set up. The can do legs or filler replies in the main body, as I think this one is. I don’t know the lingo so hard to explain. I just replied to Edom and I wanted you to see it also. 4 or 5 paragraphs “The Truth Believer? Did you see it?

    • J.M.

      February 13, 2014 at 4:26 PM

      @ >we are perhaps worse off today then we were under King George, the turd. (< dirty turd, you're giving him to much adoration)

      Ain't no "perhaps" about it.

      Did quite a lot of research into "slavery." You, Skip, & I, want to know the TRUTH about anything. We would be in paradise compared to what we are in today, if we too were slaves of ,e.g., Thomas, ("criminal name" of), Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson's slaves loved him. There were good reasons WHY, but too long here to explain why. People don't think about black people selling other black people & also, black people owned black slaves. Slavery was overall a good thing if it was really understood what it was REALLY like. I'm sure there was a "harsh master" here & there, but overall the slaves were happy. We are not very happy today, are we, none of us, with the way things are overall. We are ALL slaves being oppressed, Red, Yellow, Black & White. What we need, I think is a BENEVOLENT DICTATORSHIP WORLD WIDE. And, if anyone does not understand what I am saying, consider a family. Papa loves his children, & he wants the best for them. He wants them to be happy & Papa just might have to every now & then discipline his children in a way that they will understand, Papa means business. I only know of one being who qualifies for this kind of dictatorship. We are going to ALWAYS be slaves of something. Happy slaves, or unhappy slaves. Ain't no way to get around it. I think it's not understanding what the word SLAVE, really MEANS.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 13, 2014 at 4:49 PM

        J.M. Voluntary Associations are the only solution I see as all other system end up eventually in physical or economic chaos or both. Let’s keep trying to do the same thing over and over. Benevolent dictator???? As long as it’s me and there is always going to be some one who wants to bump me off so I need protections services and therefore I must tax you to protect me.

    • J.M.

      February 13, 2014 at 7:11 PM

      @ As long as it’s me.
      I hear you. Brother !!! You are a straight shooter, fair, kind, understanding, not greedy, not jealous,selfish etc. Just let me be your go-fer or one of umm. I’ll be thrilled with being your shoe shine boy. I’M SERIOUS !! BUT, we still have a BIG problem. We want the best for our children, our grandchildren & on & on. When you die, slowly but surely, our way up the line offspring are going to be where we are today. I’m for more than the NOW time period. In other words it seems the best we can or be able to do is treat the effect without eliminating the cause. But you get my vote.I did read your response to E.T.just a few minutes ago I don’t think he’ll be responding anymore to anyone, not for a while anyway. We all have to back up & punt sometime.Did you see what I said J.F.K said to the United Nations Assembly, back in 1961? I cannot see how ANYONE can take what he said LIGHTLY.. I KNOW for a fact & truth what he said IS TRUE. Skip, You should like me when I disagree with you about “some” things. I AM NOT articulate. Now I know you will agree that most of the posters on this blog will agree with me on that. I may need you to come to my rescue later. Here is why.. Well let me put it this way. Let’s say I send you a message & somebody thinks, mistakenly, the message is meant for him or her. This has happened before. OR, Let’s say somebody says, Skip, you are a liar. ok Now I cut & paste that remark with my comment BACK to the one who said that.BUT here is how it will show up coming from me. @ > Skip you are a liar.Then it doesn’t matter what I say or ask the one why he/she called you a liar, you will see those words up front on the message FROM me, and it looks like I AM the one calling you that. I think this may have happened earlier on another thread regarding someone else. Anyway BRO. you got my vote.AND you got it even if you tell me I cannot work for you in any capacity. I think the last vote I ever cast was for Ralph Nader. After that. I QUIT voting.

    • J.M.

      February 14, 2014 at 1:20 AM

      @ J.M. I have a similar dilemma. Sometimes I want to answer you and have everyone else read it also.
      Skip, not following what you mean. Maybe this will be one time something I said was understood other than what I meant. I am at a loss to know what you are saying even tho it’s right in front of me. I sure don’t want to lose you because of a misunderstanding.

  5. Collin

    February 6, 2014 at 1:23 PM

    The one and ONLY answer to the debt problem is to declare it null and void because of FRAUD! It is fraud because it is mathematically impossible to repay ! It can not be repaid because the interest is never created on the loan and that is fraud ! And fraud voids all ! If we don’t void all out of thin air debt the bankers will own almost EVERYTHING ! And we will be homeless slaves ! They have a license to counterfeit ! Can I counterfeit the money to repay the loan ? Why not ? If we even attempt to repay a impossible debt (the national debt) all we do is show our ignorance ! The way to fix this mess is so simple a 3rd grader can figure it out ! We void the fraudulent debt! and everyone keeps ALL the items they have so called debt on ! And then we start to use a debt free currency and / or gold and silver ! And then we will have a robust economy like never before — OR WE LET THE BANKERS STEAL EVERYTHING !
    I was in about the third grade when the news was talking about the national debt and I asked my dad who do we owe money to and who could possibly be richer than the United States? and where did they get the money? And then my dad took a gulp off his beer and said we owe it to our self ! I said that’s the dumbest thing I ever heard of ! that’s like me borrowing from my right pocket and setting fire to the interest and putting the rest in my left pocket ! This was about 1972 ! But Dad was wrong! We owe it to international Bankers running the biggest Ponzi scheme on earth called The Federal reserve system! And yes it really is this simple ! The bankers have a shoe in on ALL loans they make ! All they have to do is stop lending and then start foreclosing on ALL debts!-meaning they now own everything that has a debt by having a license to counterfeit ! So we 1 keep getting fleeced by continuing to pay this fraudulent scheme ! OR 2 we declare ALL out of thin air debt NULL AND VOID because of FRAUD ! And we ALL keep everything we have so called debt on! MOST people don’t get this part Every car, boat, house, machine, tool, farm,ect. has already been paid for by the fraudulent paper! So no one looses ! WE sure as hell cant give it to the banksters! (let them steal it) AND IT DOESENT MATTER IF YOU WANT TO REDUCE THE DEBT 90% ITS STILL UNPAYABLE! So when we void the FRAUD This will be the ultimate FRESH start for everyone ! Share this if you want THE solution to the WORLDS problems! If not everything will continue to get worse until we have HONEST DEBT FREE MONEY /and GOLD AND SILVER ! And there is plenty of gold and silver! just Divide the paper money (FRN) by the gold /silver and you have the value of them! NO MATTER WHAT IT COMES TO per OZ ! Then we would be happy to work for SAY A ONE OZ. SILVER COIN A day ! Because NOW REAL MONEY will buy what $100 did before the reset! THINK ABOUT IT! This is what Scripture calls the jubilee !

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 7:29 PM

      @The one and ONLY answer to the debt problem is to declare it null and void because of FRAUD!

      Fraud it is, but who will declare the debt problem null & void & make it STICK? Fraud begets fraud. Are we not participants in fraudulent activity too? This is one reason I feel & think of myself as a hypocrite. But, I sure have a LOT of company. Still, this doesn’t make me feel any better.

      • Collin

        February 11, 2014 at 9:37 PM

        WE the people will declare it void under law ! How do you think you are a hypocrite ? because most people are brainwashed with there LIES ? And so you some how feel guilty ? They bank on you being so dumbed down that you wont object to there FRAUD ! when in realty a 3rd grader can figure out that he’s getting the SHAFT and all we have to do is STOP consenting to there fraud !

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 11:16 PM

      WE the people will declare it void under law !

      Is that right? If so, when? A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.< Saul Bellow. < this is not meant for you,Collin, but somebody might read it who will understand, That is, if he/she reads your & my prior comment

      • Collin

        February 12, 2014 at 2:11 AM

        The People don’t HURT Enough yet -J.M ! .when they do LOOK OUT ! Can you understand that?

    • J.M.

      March 1, 2014 at 8:54 PM

      @ >The People don’t HURT Enough yet -J.M ! .when they do LOOK OUT ! Can you understand that?

      No, Not really. But as you know, I.m not very smart so be gentle with me, Some things are 2nd nature to some people. You don’t expect a little child to know everything you do. I know you don’t. So, if you respond to this comment, do so as tho you were trying to teach a 5-6-7- year old child a lesson in education. Be patient & kind. It’s hard for me to be that way with some other people too, especially self professed ANIMALS. no what I mean???

  6. Art Simpson

    February 6, 2014 at 1:52 PM

    Karen Hudes says the U.S. has 180,000 tons of gold in the Bank of Hawaii.

    • J.M.

      February 6, 2014 at 9:57 PM

      Art Simpson
      @ Karen Hudes says the U.S. has 180,000 tons of gold in the Bank of Hawaii.

      Wow, Boy, that’s a lot of gold.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

        I would rather them forgive all the mortgage debt, especially mine. 180,000 tonnes of gold. Shouldn’t that be in Fort Knox rather than in the Bank of Hawaii?

  7. Jetlag

    February 6, 2014 at 3:25 PM

    Framing this as an either/or problem is a false dichotomy.

    “A false dichotomy or false dilemma occurs when an argument presents two options and ignores, either purposefully or out of ignorance, other alternatives.” (Philosophy Index)

    In this case, the third option, which also happens to be the most commonly used option, is debt restructuring. Since the US is unable to repay its debts, its creditors will have to take a haircut, but their assets won’t become worthless. This is SOP in situations like these.

    And no, America will not disintegrate into riots if times get hard. We the People are wise to the NWO’s plans to dismantle our country for their private cannibalization if we ever allow such chaos to replace (what’s left of) our constitutional rule of law.

    • Adask

      February 6, 2014 at 3:48 PM

      And, what does “debt restructuring” mean? It means that the lenders have to agree to accept less currency than they were originally promised. I.e., the creditor loaned $1 billion, but had to agree to accept only,say, $600 million as full payment. We say the creditor had a “haircut”. But all of those words and metaphors are intended to obscure the fundamental fact: The borrower DEFAULTED (at least in part) on the original loan. The creditor was forced to agree to accept the 60% payment as payment in full because if he did agree to 60%, he might get zero %.

      Debt restructuring is not a “third option”. Debt restructuring is simply a specific, but limited form of DEFAULT.

      The result of this “debt restructuring” is exactly the result I’ve tried to explain in the article: some of the creditors former paper wealth was destroyed. The creditor (in my example) loaned $1 billion but agreed to accept $600 million as payment in full. Result? The creditor lost $400 million of his previous paper assets. And he didn’t just lose it to someone else–that $400 million has been disappeared and no longer exists.

      If enough creditors agree to take 40% “haircuts,” the economy could lose 40% of its paper assets.

      If those 40% paper assets had been owned by a bank and used as collateral in fractional reserve banking, it’s conceivable that once the 40% ($400 million) is destroyed, the bank might have to call in ten times the amount of the lost currency ($400 million) which had been used as a basis for making consumer loans. Thus, the $400 million “haircut” could conceivably cause the call-in of $4 billion in consumer loans.

      If that’s true, if the original loan of $1 billion suffers a 40% “haircut,” the economy might suffer a $4 billion loss.

      All of that fine, fractional reserve leverage that helped banks and borrowers become fabulously wealthy while the economy was strong, is the same fractional reserve leverage that can reduce that illusory paper wealth into nothingness when the economy goes south.

      In any case, “debt restructuring” is not a third option–it’s just a kinder, gentler form of default.

      • Jetlag

        February 6, 2014 at 4:20 PM

        Of course a haircut is a partial default, but who’s talking about default?

        You said “repudiate” the debt. To repudiate a debt is to unilaterally cancel it.

        Limiting the options to payment and repudiation excludes the most common option: debt restructuring.

      • Pat Fields

        February 7, 2014 at 8:55 AM

        Adask … “The creditor lost $400 million of his previous paper assets. And he didn’t just lose it to someone else–that $400 million has been disappeared and no longer exists.”

        That’s not really true, Al. The credit exists in another ‘account’, subject to someone else’s claim. That ‘someone else’ gets to keep that credit, scot-free, at the creditor’s expense.

        The delusion is in presuming ‘value’ defined by pure digits, as seriously meritorious. It is not, has never been and can never be. Until humanity re-orients itself back on the plane of Reality, with its naturally occurring trends toward balance derived from supply-demand again, we’ll all continue along this descent into ruin.

        ‘Fractional Reserve’ is unsustainable in the framework of physical money, unless credit is mainly conveyed through the Discounted Real Bil method. Volume of Loan at Interest (loan and payment in Coin) would then be limited to the mine recovery rate and infusion of coinage, minus use for fabricating other needed goods.

        God’s Grace is had in using His Nature’s money, from the fact that humanity’s average rate of growth very slightly exceeds the recovery rate of money metals from the Earth, making savings for one’s feeble years its own reward, entirely independent of Man’s will. Because of this ‘Population Demand Factor’, metallic money gains value (purchase power), all on natural consequence.

        The temptation to supplant, or even to supplement, commodity money (metals having proven ideal to the task), is a repeatedly demonstrable Evil, born of government’s imposing ‘fixed’ numerical ‘valuation’ on coins (until inevitably debased to paper stamps, and now mere electrons), rather than embracing the growing rational value of the metals themselves. The dichotomy, in defiance of Nature, forces injustice to systemically encroach on the whole of Society, corrupting everyone.

    • J.M.

      February 12, 2014 at 12:33 AM

      @ > babble,
      knew a guy in Kentucky & he had that long drawn out southern Kentucky drawl. He went to England & stayed there for 2 or 3 years. When he came back to Kentucky, he had a fluent English accent. People who want to strictly study about confusing things & only that without a break & without balancing their life, everything in moderation, have a tendency to come out of their “in depth” studies of Babylon, babbling themselves. I too am guilty of this to some degree. Some People can detect it when I cannot. I guess you can see Skip, I am starving for fellowship & this blog is all I have. I do have the fear that I am going to say something that is going to be understood exactly the opposite of what I meant.& be kicked off. With your continued help, I can be better at what I try to do & say, then I can better that, & so on. It’s always trying to better our best, & I think this can be done. But it’s seemingly impossible for me when I am overwhelmed with belittling, sarcastic etc., comments & also be called a FOOL.FOOL FOOL seven times by the same heavyweight poster. Regardless of what happens to me, I have posted enough last warning comments by saying what people with credibility say & if they will be ignored that’s not my problem, it will be their problem. Once again, thank you for you valuable, to me, help. shalom

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 12, 2014 at 10:31 PM

        J. M. You’re extremely articulate and have a head on your shoulders, unlike some of the other folks on this blog. Keep up the good work and don’t let them stall or distract you from your mission. Truth always prevails “eventually”, so you must be patient. Keep writing, it can only make you a better author. The more I write, the more it changes my entire philosophy, because it makes me look at the honesty within my own proses. If you look at the weaknesses of other writers, they fail to examine what they are writings and more importantly, check for logical, scientific and historical validation and verifications. This is the 21st century yet people still decide just to ignore those things that do not fit within their belief systems. Really, a human being can live in a fish’s stomach, without being eaten up by it’s stomach acids. There, “obviously” therefore must be a secret hiding place, within a portion of a fish or whale, with plenty of oxygen and no stomach acids that dissolve their prey into eventual fish poop.

  8. Christian Gains

    February 6, 2014 at 4:15 PM

    Just a note about the correlation between the Children of Israel & the “Jubile”, and our dilemma…

    The C.O.I. were ordered by Yahwey to do three things ever 49th / 50th year.

    LEVITICUS 25:2 – 4:
    (SABBATIC YEAR: {49TH year}, they were to leave the ground fallow that year)

    THEN, IN THE 50Tth year, they were to:

    LEVITICUS 25:10 – 55:

    #1] Forgive ALL debts [Lev. 25:47 – 50 & 54]

    #2] Free ALL [Israeli AND foreign] slaves [Lev. 25:10 & 39 – 55]

    #3] Return ALL lands to their original owners [Lev. 25:23 – 28]

    Now, this ruling was given Moses, by Yahwey, for the people to observe in every 49th & 50th year.

    Interestingly enough, the C.O.I. never once celebrated a “Jubile”. They missed 70 Jubile celebrations, and that is why they were sent into bondage in Babylon for 70 years.

    And, Edoms Thorn is ABSOLUTELY correct in referring to Deut. 28, as that Chapter is God’s promises of blessings (Deut. 28:1 – 14), or curses, (Deut. 28: 15 – 68), dependent upon the obedience of the C.O.I. — And, those promises also still apply to the (“Saved by the Grace, and redeemed by the Blood of Jesus”), Children of God….(Matt.5:17 – 20).

    IF you’ll carefully study diligently the specifics of Deut. 28, {especially the curses}, you’ll quickly realize just what’s happening to our Country, and why…(note especially verses 43 thru 52), and PRAY DESPERATELY that you can stay obedient…or get obedient immediately.


      February 6, 2014 at 6:31 PM

      Thank you CHRISTIAN Gaines for your clarification on JUBILEE.

      To your comment that “Israel” were sent into bondage in Babylon for 70 years. The fact is that was the Kingdom of JUDAH not ISRAEL. Many “Bible Commentaries” take EZRA 8:25 and the like, and claim that ISRAEL are JEWS.
      EZRA 8:25 …”and all Israel there present”… Who were “PRESENT” at that time? A Remanent of Judah, Benjamin, and a ‘Remanent of a Remanent of Levi, and a few of ASHER! AGIAN EZRA 8:29 …”and chief of the fathers of Israel, at Jerusalem”…
      WE know that there was the ‘captivity of the Northern Tribes (JACOB/ISRAEL) and of The Kingdom of JUDAH (JACOB/ISRAEL) and when the the ‘split occurred JUDAH did not cease to be a son of JACOB/ISRAEL and therefore JUDAH is called “ISRAEL” also!

      GENOCIDE, INFESTATION, INFILTRATION: The Beginning I lay out the facts concerning those that were in Babylonian Captivity in the section, …”EZRA and the Exiles”.

      ALSO ISRAEL/JACOB and Esau/EDOM are still in the world today, and I have proven the word of God with the word of GOD, and History.

      Why don’t these scriptures fit the so called “Gods Chosen”?

      What I have presented is not like what you have heard else where. It is the result of independent research and observations from over forty years. I talk about ISRAEL IDENTITY not “Christian Identity” BIG deference.

      • J.M.

        February 7, 2014 at 12:13 AM

        @ > I talk about ISRAEL IDENTITY not “Christian Identity” BIG deference.

        I understand, BIG deference to mean, BIG difference. IF I am understanding right, in that deference was just an accidental misspelling of, difference, I believe this too. Anyway, There are apparently some “christians” who have been ordained of God, to only make correct, other people’s errors,etc. & these correctors are not to be corrected. They DO the correcting & they are PROUD to have been anointed & appointed & given the lofty position of being the corrector of other people’s mistakes. EDOMS THORN,you may have meant, BIG deference instead of BIG difference. IF so, I’m lost as to what that means. If I am misunderstanding, Please correct me. I’m not proud & never want to be “proud.” It pleases me when I am corrected & simply because, I will be correct about something I was incorrect about. However, sometimes I can see that some correctors are only trying to make me even more incorrect for example, one man tried to “correct me” by saying that teaching obedience to the 10 commandments is teaching false doctrine. I will remain being incorrect as far as that goes. Thank you for your posts, EDOMS THORN


        February 7, 2014 at 2:20 AM


        Having the facts that I have presented here and else where on the WEB ignored is nothing new. People are uncomfortable when confronted with the facts concerning the lies they believe. But ignoring and running from those facts, does not change the fact, that they are FACTS!

        I am also very accustom to the ridicule of the intellectual cowards and semi Bible literates that have made it their habit to ignore anything that goes against their comfortable preconceived notions and limited understanding. I have read your comments on many of the articles here, and it seems to me you are more concerned with having some attention paid to you. When you have nothing to contribute to the conversation, you babble and ridicule for no apparent reason.

        I put a good bit of time and effort in my response to you at the article “War of A.D. 1812′” and you had no comment. And here you have nothing to add to an ADULT conversation seemingly only begging attention and to ridicule! That is a characteristic of a TROLL! Just saying.

        Well you got my attention for the last time!

      • J.M.

        February 9, 2014 at 12:33 AM

        EDOMS THORN,
        @ > I am posting there under the name “World Wide Pants”

        I Cannot get this to come up. Tell me what to do & how to do it. I only know how to turn a computer on & off. comes up but the newest thing it shows, is something pertaining to 3 days ago. Saw another news release just a few minutes ago that said, > 21 minutes ago. It said a message will soon be sent per these warships approaching U.S Borders.


        February 9, 2014 at 2:42 AM

        Alex Jones’ Infowars: There’s a war on for your mind!
        Alex Jones the home of the #1 Internet News Show in the World.

        Iran Sends Warships to US Maritime Borders

      • J.M.

        February 9, 2014 at 4:02 AM

        To : EDOMS THORN

        Thanks for the link. Just got it . After thinking about this current event, this may be the beginning of the “wolf coming calls.” I don’t believe we have been conditioned enough yet to not pay attention to “news” like this. But I do believe that the day is coming when there are those who see “again” for the umpteenth time the same or similar news item, & then all of a sudden Here’ssssssssssssssss JOHNNY WOLF.!!!

        Re: A battle for my mind??? I respectfully disagree. I’m not that important. The truth is, I’m not important one smithereen of a burnt out piece of junk. I know “God” does not make junk but some of us sure can make junk out of God’s creations.


        February 9, 2014 at 10:42 AM

        “JUNK”? It is because you are not Born Again. We have yet to be “perfected”.

        That ‘letter’ to Paul’ was so ON TOPIC! That was a display of the ‘body’ through the leadership. Slack in learning and understanding. It was funny too.

        II Cor. 10:12 “For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.”

      • J.M.

        February 9, 2014 at 11:30 AM


        @ > It is because you are not Born Again. We have yet to be “perfected”.

        NO NO NO !!! I am born again no doubt about it. I am free from sin I cannot sin because I am born again It makes me want to shout shout shout shout and there is no doubt, absolutely no doubt no no doubt no doubt about it I AM born again. I’m convinced if I keep saying this over & over & over that there is no doubt no doubt no doubt about it I am I am I am I am born again, I will eventually believe it like so many others believe it My email went through to you, at least a notice came up that said, message sent. I also got through to dejure, another poster too!!!

      • J.M.

        February 10, 2014 at 6:00 PM

        To: EDOMS THORN

        @ > II Cor. 10:12 “For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.”

        I understand. Some of us do need to practice what we preach instead of being a “wise-ass” or being thought of as such/same. Have you received the emails to you from me YET

      • J.M.

        February 10, 2014 at 6:33 PM

        To: EDOMS THORN
        @ > E.T you say in pertinent part to me, J.M. > “When you have nothing to contribute to the conversation, you babble and ridicule for no apparent reason.And here you have nothing to add to an ADULT conversation seemingly only begging attention and to ridicule! That is a characteristic of a TROLL! Just saying.”

        Like in the Rocky LXVII thread too. I just share, or try to, my understanding of God’s word & actual experiences in my life. BUT, once again, I apparently do not know know to express same in an intelligible way. Then again, people who are superior in knowledge, wisdom, & understanding, a.k.a. know it alls should not be concerned with anything I say.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 10, 2014 at 6:49 PM

        J.M. Interesting that those who criticize you talk of babble, but as I see it you ask more questions then they are willing to or can answer. Keep up the good work bro. One suggestion, less acronyms.

      • J.M.

        February 11, 2014 at 2:55 PM

        @ > II Cor. 10:12
        Once again, I’m not certain we understand this scripture alike. Maybe we do & maybe we don’t. I do know what Job said about himself, & I do know what Paul said about himself. PRIDE, being PROUD of of one’s self is the reason people cannot SEE what he/she really is. Until some people can come to see that we are practically less than nothing compared to what “God” wants us to BECOME we just won’t make it, overcome, & endure until the end. Pride is the culprit.

      • Russell Arms

        June 29, 2015 at 12:21 AM

        Edumbs Thaun.
        Edumbs, Post that link where the truth & the facts is “just simply a mouse click away”, Yes, that link. D

      • Russell Arms

        June 29, 2015 at 12:43 AM

        eDuMs tHaUn,
        @ Understanding what punctuation marks mean will aide in READING COMPREHENSION!

        @ The colon is a punctuation mark consisting of two equally sized dots centered on the same vertical line. A colon is used to explain or start an enumeration. The most common use of the colon is to inform the reader that what follows the colon proves, explains, defines, describes, or lists elements of what preceded it.

        @Here is a COLON > : <

        @Technology has NOTHING what so ever to do with Daniel 12:4 The KNOWLEDGE that was to "increase." was in the BOOK! Period!!

        @ I talk about ISRAEL IDENTITY not “Christian Identity” BIG deference.
        eDuMS ! HERE IS A SPELLING LESSON FER YA, D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-C-E not, deference. D

  9. J.M.

    February 6, 2014 at 5:11 PM

    Re: Deut 28, Not elementary but, “Exactly, my dear Watson, Also, re: verse 1. Jetlag would be correct if he said, “this must have already happened.” There WAS a time when this Country held this/that lofty position.
    I think it would be very FOOLish if “SOME people” did not take the time to read & “understand these curses rather than experiencing them to the extent that there will not be be any misunderstanding THEN..

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 3:08 AM

      @ >I also got through to dejure, another poster too!!!
      oh my. I am truly sorry to say that dejure is no longer a poster. This is really sad, I believe.

  10. Adask

    February 6, 2014 at 5:15 PM

    Jetlag: “Repudiate,” “default,” “inflate”; all pretty much mean the same thing although in different degrees. In every case the creditor is not repaid some or all of whatever he loaned. The creditor is robbed, but in that robbery, paper assets are effectively destroyed leaving less of the “capital” needed to fund and motivate the economy.

  11. thomas russo

    February 6, 2014 at 6:54 PM

    Correct the debt is a fraud to take it up a step there is no evidence of a debt, its all fiction of law and law creates fiction, but fiction can not create law. Take a look at the alleged dollar it is the property of the United States of America, OOPS!, Now, in order to figure what this is all about, read Volume 1 United States Code which is inclusive of Titles 1-4 (Organic Law) and Title 5 sections 101-5949 (for employees). When reading 1-4 pay close attention to the dates of entry as well as language used, then find out what the jurisdiction is of the limited government known by and throught the Constitution “of the United States” which is Title 4 of 1-4, now to get a handle on all this law that is right in front of one, you will see that once a territory in Title 3 establishes an amount of free inhabitants and ratifies Title 2 establishing a Constitution with borders like Ohio did in 1803 the territorial government of the United States of America was ousted, in other words it no longer had any jurisdiction and had nothing to do with the Constitution “of the United States” for it was now over it not under it, so go read for every Constitution is bordered in the 48.

  12. lawful given name is cynthia

    February 7, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Why not simply forgive? What of Public Law 73-10?

    • Adask

      February 7, 2014 at 8:33 AM

      You can bomb the debt, burn the debt or even “forgive” the debt, but it won’t do any immediate good.

      My point is that we’re trapped by our fiat currency, debt-based monetary system and even fractional reserve banking. We can’t repudiate the debt without destroying the value of correlative paper debt instruments that we treat as “assets”. Insofar as we “forgive” the debt, we destroy the correlative paper assets. Insofar as we destroy paper assets, we destroy the “capital” that’s necessary to keep this system afloat.

      No matter what sort of “happy face” we put on our predicament, we be screwed. We can’t fully repay the debt because it has grown too large, and we can’t repudiate/restructure/forgive/default on any of that debt without also destroying the correlative paper “assets”.

      We are figuratively caught in a situation similar to that of a man whose house is infested with termites and the only way he can get rid of them is to set fire to his house. If we don’t set fire to the house, the termites will destroy it. If we set fire to the house to destroy the termites, we must also destroy the house. We are darned if we do, and darned if we don’t.

      If we had a legitimate and constitutional monetary system based on gold and silver, we could forgive/repudiate/restructure/default on some or all of the debt and the tangible gold and silver would still remain in our economy. Some creditors would be temporarily ruined, but the monetary assets would remain and the economy would therefore survive and even prosper.

      However, because we were fool enough to allow the institution of a fiat, paper, debt-based monetary system, we can’t eliminate any of the debt without also vaporizing a correlative amount of paper “assets”. We can’t “forgive” the debts without also destroying the correlative paper “assets”.

      And yet, we must default on some, most or all the debt because it’s too big to be repaid in full. When that default takes place (no matter what name we use to describe it), this nation will be suddenly impoverished. We will remain impoverished until 1) we establish a new monetary system; and 2) we work hard enough under this monetary system to generate some significant amount of savings. Then, we will see a national “recovery”. Until then, we will be forced to endure some very difficult times.

      It seems virtually impossible that the American people would be dumb enough to try to replace a failed debt-based monetary system with another debt-based monetary system. We can’t be dumb enough to replace our green currency with a new-and-improved pink currency–can we?

      But who can say? When it comes to American politics, I put no treason beyond the power of our politicians, and no stupidity past the greedy, gimme-something-for-nothing general public.

      Still, I believe that in the midst of the coming economic trauma, the people (and maybe even the politicians) will be forced to recognize the error of their fiat, paper currency system’s ways and therefore reestablish a new monetary system based on tangible assets (like gold or silver) rather than intangible promises to pay (debt). I think the reestablishment of a gold/silver based currency is virtually inevitable.

      Of course, the U.S. and/or global government might try to pass off a new digital currency similar to Bitcoins to replace our current paper currency. But in the end, an officially-approved “Bitcoin” would be just another fiat, debt-based currency. It might buy us a little time, but it would be just as certain to fail as our current debt-based currency is certain to fail.

      In the end, the coming economic debacle will force Americans (no matter what we might prefer) to reestablish an asset-based (presumably gold/silver) monetary system as well as individual independence and self-reliance, and a relatively small, limited government that can’t spend on every idiotic program, welfare and subsidy that can currently be conceived by any politician. People who are addicted to government welfare or subsidies, or are otherwise too old, too young, too stupid, too ignorant, or too lazy to work are going to have one helluva hard time. They will cry, they will scream and they will riot as they demand that “somebody” restore their free lunches. But it won’t do any good–the free lunches will be gone. In a gold/silver based monetary system, if you don’t work or have family to support you, you won’t eat. If you do work, you could prosper like we did in the 1950s and 1960s.

      I don’t know, can’t know, how bad the economy may become if/when the current debt-based monetary system fails. My “dire warnings” may exaggerate the extent of the coming trauma. But if it turns that my warnings are exaggerated, there’s nothing to say that my warnings are impossible. Again, the worst-case scenario is, by definition, the least likely scenario–but it’s still a possible scenario.

      The National Debt of the US government, and even the total debt of the American people is too great to be repaid in full. I guesstimate that at least 80%, probably 90% of the current debt can’t/won’t be paid. If my guesstimate is roughly correct, most of our debts can’t be paid and therefore won’t be paid. When the moment arrives when government and the American people must admit they are insolvent and even bankrupt, much of the paper debt will disappear but so will much of our illusory paper “assets“. If we repudiate 80% of the American debt, we will also repudiate 80% of America’s paper “assets”.

      I’m not smart enough to even imagine how this economy might continue without most of the current, illusory paper “assets”. Once the debt disappears and the paper “assets” disappear, we’ll suffer at least 5 years, maybe 10 years, of the “Greater Depression”. That suffering will last until we: 1) reestablish a gold/silver based monetary system; 2) reestablish the sort of mentality that accepts the fact that we have no right to “entitlements” paid for by someone else; and 3) reestablish a genuine “work ethic” wherein everyone knows he/she must work or go hungry; and 4) rebuild our gold treasury so as to have enough gold to support an asset-based monetary system.

      I can’t imagine that this period of “reestablishment” will be easy, painless or brief. We’re headed into an earthly purgatory and should arrive there, not so long from now.

      • Collin

        February 11, 2014 at 1:54 AM

        Adask ! You sound like a BANKER ! The bankers ARE destroying the PAPER ASETS as we speak ! By printing / ect. in the TRILLIONS ! If we put it off as long as possible as you seam to lean towards That means stealing our kid’s and grandkid’s future ! ALL because WE were to FAT AND LAZY to fix it a long time ago ! COME ON!

  13. Mike

    February 7, 2014 at 2:11 AM

    As we inch closer and closer to the the end, understanding the differences between truth, fact and reality are going to be paramount for survival. Most of what everyone above has contributed is true and backed up by facts, but I wonder how it checks against reality. Does it matter that your SS# makes you a ward of a corporation and that the corporation is bankrupt? Personally those are simply facts of the situation but doesn’t change reality one bit.

    From my thinking, which ever community has the most natural resources and skill to put them to use will fare the best after the economy falls apart. Basically, a total economic break down will reset the clock to a time when people had to exchange their energy for things instead of trading paper for things, at least for the short term. There is always time to learn the skills necessary to survive and thrive. It is difficult to imagine that creator put you hear only to be swallowed up by an angry mob searching for food with out giving you the brains to manage the situation.

    The monetary exchange system is a fiction we agree to participate in but has nothing to do with reality unless you allow it to. There are many ways to eat and shelter with out the money system, we did that for many years before the fake system was put on us. With modern technology we could invent a far better system of exchange that didn’t exploit God’s creation. Sure it will be very hard but far more rewarding than exploiting the planet or another human being for a false system that doesn’t really work right and only benefits those that run the system in the first place. Don’t fall for it any longer, don’t study it and argue it or fight against it because it doesn’t exist in reality. It exists only in our minds if we let it. I imagine God is pretty disappointed that we have allowed the money system to be superimposed over reality. Too many have given up their humanity for their belief in the money system and justify their behavior by accepting that it’s just the way things are. Money currently runs the world and it shouldn’t be that way. When the crash happens my heart will rejoice and then I’ll get to work helping my loved ones, friends and then my community get back on its feet and hopefully make a different choice about how we conduct our affairs.

    Your articles are always smart and well thought out but there has to be a time when we stop watching the car crash, explaining how it happened, showing it to others and assigning blame. I think if we change our hearts, get back to reality and honor God’s creation we will begin to improve our world. Imagine how little we would damage our environment if we didn’t believe we needed the financial benefits, or prostitute our women, or neglect and abuse our children and the animals of the earth, or slaughter millions of other humans – for the money system. It’s amazing how something man invented has been so destructive and misunderstood. I guess that is just how we are…until we make another choice.

    • J.M.

      February 8, 2014 at 9:13 PM


      @ >”………….. but there has to be a time when we stop watching the car crash, explaining how it happened, showing it to others and assigning blame.

      I HEAR YOU !!!

      @I think if we change our hearts, get back to reality and honor God’s creation we will begin to improve our world.

      I HEAR YOU !!!

      There’s a scripture that talks about a time when it will be so bad, that if “God” does not “intervene”
      there will be no one left alive to intervene for. We have been living in this time for at least 50 years & I am convinced that he has stretched forth his hand to hold back the destruction that could happen any day. I don’t know how much longer his outstretched hand & long suffering will continue. Albert Einstein said, OVER FIFTY YEARS AGO, that there is enough nuclear stockpiled weapons to destroy the earth & every blade of grass on the earth FIFTY times over. And he said, once is enough. I want to send you a message that John F. Kennedy gave. Will see if I can find it.
      I hear you Brother Michael !!!!!

    • J.M.

      February 8, 2014 at 9:48 PM

      Michael, who may be concerned,

      In 1961 the late President John F. Kennedy warned a hushed United Nations Assembly:”Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind.” “Today,” he said, “every inhabitant of this planet must contemplate the day when this planet may no longer be habitable…. The mere existence of modern weapons 10 MILLION TIMES more powerful than any that the world has ever seen, and only minutes away from any target on earth is a source of horror. Together,” said President Kennedy grimly, “we shall save our planet or together we shall perish in its flames”

      What President Kennedy told the United Nations in 1961 was not the ranting of a
      wild eyed fanatic, but is the day today reality of the world in which we live. Today, the
      estimated number of stockpiled nuclear bombs is already enough to wipe out the world’s
      population many times over! Former U.N. Secretary General U Thant warned in 1969: “I do not
      wish to seem over dramatic, but I can only conclude from information that is available
      to me as Secretary General that the members of the United Nations have perhaps 10 years left in which to subordinate their ancient quarrels and launch a global partnership to curb the arms race, to improve the human environment, to defuse the population explosion, and to supply the required
      momentum to world development efforts.”
      Many other world renowned statesmen and scientists, too numerous to quote in this
      lesson, speak fearfully of the END OF THE WORLD meaning, the END of human civilization\

      Keep in mind that there never has been a weapon made that was not eventually used.

      • J.M.

        February 8, 2014 at 10:58 PM

        Iran says warships headed close to US borders
        The Associated Press
        8 hours ago
        I just saw this. Don’t know if it’s true or not. I’m sure if it’s not true I will be made aware of it. I’m sure if it is true, there will be no response.


        February 8, 2014 at 11:22 PM

        That is being reported at I am posting there under the name “World Wide Pants”

  14. Pat Fields

    February 7, 2014 at 6:57 AM

    There’s something deeply repugnant in dismissing obligations of debtors, especially in general. Justice wails and moans for Law to beg Equity’s aid in striking a Right Balance. This is a glaring example of such a case.

    Those of us who’ve most soberly contemplated the core of iniquity resulting from circulating signature-loan credit paper as pretense for ‘money’, have come to understand that in every instance throughout history, such Notes progressively depreciate from their original commodity value … leaving them HUGELY over-valued in rational juxtaposition against Labor. resources and goods. The process in this instance has left the government’s ‘dollar’ Note at a real residual physical expression of two 1912 ‘cents’, or 6.6 grams of copper.

    Rather than dismiss all debt while such real expression can be ascertained, Equity demands that Just payment of ‘dollar’ units ought to be remitted in such copper pieces. In fact, if the Lawful Sovereign could be brought to demand so, these ‘Coppers’ should be fabricated to completely replace all ‘dollar’ Notes, both paper and digital, to Rightly pay off the Bonds and … keep wages, prices and account balances numerically identical, so as to leave the entire existing financial superstructure undisturbed and in smooth continuing fluidity with only ’rounding’ inconveniences to be suffered. The final effect would be to complete eradicate all the mis-allocations and damage caused this past century. Society would merely re-situate its financial status-quo to that of 1912.

    Further, if the ‘Coppers’ were qualified solely by weight and fineness, naturally rational exchange with silver would very quickly emerge along the guideline of geological abundance at 80:1 (which so happens to be the present market ratio under Note terms) as the real values are inter-changable in fact. But, most importantly, reversion to the value standard of rational supply-demand driven economy and finance will engage the notorious ‘Invisible Hand’ to intrinsically sort out the myriad instances where goods have become grotesquely over-valued or under-valued as a result of willful avarice and plunder carried out by governments … globally … in pursuit of their impossible ‘everything-for-everyone’ and ‘more-for-us’ policies, underlying humankind’s miserable impoverishment growing worse by each passing year.

    • Adask

      February 7, 2014 at 9:02 AM

      It’s easy to see that dismissing debt obligations is “repugnant”. It’s harder to see that lending more currency to some person or nation than they can ever hope to repay is at least as repugnant and probably more repugnant, but it is. It’s like lending money to a little kid and knowing all the while that the child will never be able to repay that loan and therefore we can control (even “own”) the child when he becomes an adult.

      So which is more wicked? To refuse to pay an existing debt? Or to lend more than an individual (or nation) can ever hope to repay? Should children or fools be held liable for a debt they never understood and could never really repay?

      • Pat Fields

        February 7, 2014 at 9:51 AM

        Adask … “It’s harder to see that lending more currency to some person or nation than they can ever hope to repay is at least as repugnant”

        A glaring fact that only a select few here are accepting, is that paper Notes, Bonds or ANY such mere ‘representatives of value’ are … not money. They’re ‘Transaction Facilitation Instruments’ entirely proprietary to government, bearing absolutely no inter-relationship with reality. They exist for the sole purpose to provide ‘security of the United States’ … NOT The People.

        Title 18, United States Code
        Section 8. Obligation or other security of the United States defined
        The term “obligation or other security of the United States” includes all bonds certificates of indebtedness, national bank currency, Federal Reserve notes, Federal Reserve bank notes, coupons, United States notes, Treasury notes, gold certificates, silver certificates, fractional notes, certificates of deposit, bills, checks, or drafts for money, drawn by or upon authorized officers of the United States, stamps and other representatives of value, of whatever denomination, issued under any Act of Congress, and canceled United States stamps.

        Consequently, government can ‘issue’ its imaginary ‘dollars’ in the full ‘amount’ of all outstanding government and private debts tomorrow morning and evaporate the whole lot back to where it originated … the ether of imagination. You raise concern about ‘default’, but the entire apparatus is default … ab initio.

      • Collin

        February 11, 2014 at 5:10 AM

        First of all refusing to pay a FRAUDULENT out of thin air so called debt is no way “WICKED” ( I don’t know how you can think that ) And the amount and size of the debt has nothing to do with it being mathematically impossible to pay This fraud you keep trying to justify is so “WICKED” that even a $10 loan is a Ponzi scheme here’s how ! I’m the new banks first customer ( CHUMP ) I borrow $10 @ 1% interest I now owe the bank $10.10 but ALL the money in the world is $10 the .10 cents doesn’t exist so some one else has to borrow some so called money and I have to find a way to get .10 cents from them so I can repay my loan ! Now say he borrowed $10 also now I paid my loan back but now he is short .20 cents to pay his loan ! so now you can see how a $100,000. house that will cost you $ 265,000 to pay off because you have to pay $165,000 in interest now multiply that times 300 million people in the U.S. and you can see how It turned into the monster debt we see today ! And for the loans that do get repaid someone else has to default on there loan for you to pay off your loan ! NOW you can understand why we have a rapidly growing homeless problem ! Now that is a WICKED debt money system Adask !

    • J.M.

      February 7, 2014 at 10:35 PM

      @ ab initio.
      Way to go. Here’s something I thunk, ab initio.Nunc pro tunc

  15. palani

    February 7, 2014 at 7:28 AM

    Don’t repudiate. Validate.

    VALID. An act, deed, will, and the like, which has received all the formalities required by law, is said to be valid or good in law.

    • Adask

      February 7, 2014 at 9:17 AM

      I understand you to mean that we should somehow “validate” the existing debt.

      OK, but how can we “validate” a debt that’s too great to ever be repaid? John Williams ( calculates that the current National Debt is really about $90 trillion. I believe Williams is about right. If he is, that’s about $280,000 in National Debt for every man, woman and child in this country.

      Do you have an extra $280,000 to give Uncle Sam? I don’t. I don’t know many people who do. Those who do have sufficient assets to kick in $280,000 each will not consent to do so.

      If you have a wife and two kids, does your family have and extra $1.1 million to repay your “fair share” of the existing national debt? I doubt that you do. I guarantee that the vast majority of families have no such capacity to pay or inclination to do so.

      So, how can America repay a debt that magnitude? I can’t see how it’s possible to expect more than 20% (and probably only about 10%) of that debt to be repaid.

      If we can’t make good on 50%, 80% or even 90% of the existing debt, they we must also repudiate the value of 50%, 80% or even 90% of the existing U.S. bonds. Once those bonds are admitted to be worthless, the U.S. and even global financial systems will probably collapse.

      We can “validate” the debts of any bankrupt, but if the debts still can’t be paid, the corresponding paper assets must be rendered worthless.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 7, 2014 at 9:58 AM

        Federal, State and local Government operate on Debt. Bad Idea but never the less a truth. Our government would never again be trusted to issue debt, if we would even stop paying the required interest. Many believe, as I, that the system is far to gone to salvage legitimately and why I also believe the real estate boom and bust cycle from 1999 to 2008 was premeditated and intentional planned by the central bankers and why their is evidence the last three Administrations have been preparing for a financial collapse. Ammunition acquisitions by various government agencies being just one bit of evidence.

      • palani

        February 7, 2014 at 11:10 AM


        By validate I don’t mean to question the entire debt. The statute of fraud still exists on the books even though it has been moved to the UCC sections of the state codes. The 1971 Truth in Lending Act is still there. If there exists a debt then doesn’t it stand to reason there was a ‘lending’ somewhere? The creditor is the one who lends so what means has he taken to secure his estate?

        Just because a debt exists on the books does this mean it exists in reality? Take a $20 bill printed 30 years ago. When it becomes aged and infirm (limp) isn’t it brought back to Treasury and taken off the books that it has lived in for 30 years before it is cast into the fire and destroyed? What about the same bill that happened to be in the wallet of a firefighter who lost his life in the twin towers illusion? As this bill may not be returned to Treasury for proper accounting prior to being destroyed is it presumed to exist forever and ever? Or even further back … I have in my possession a $5 bill printed in 1862, a part of the organic debt of the U.S. fixed by law at $346,681,016. If I lit a match to that bill and destroyed it is the organic debt of the U.S. going to magically be decreased by $5?

        But actually by validity I was referring to what authorization I have given to be considered a debtor to any of this debt? I have two sources. (1) The 14th amendment states that the debts of an insurgent government void {But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.} and the federal government and its administrative subdivisions are such an insurgent government as envisioned by the 14th amendment that created it and (2) A conveyance on the land of my birth contained a condition annexed to that conveyance that “in the mean time they shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property and the Religion which they profess.” Note the stipulation ‘FREE’ in this condition? As the conveyance is still in effect the condition is also still in effect. This word FREE was not incorporated in the Treaty of Guadelupe-Hidalgo. Wonder why?

    • Russell Arms

      June 29, 2015 at 12:47 AM

      @ ” …………..all the formalities required by law, is said to be valid or good in law.”
      I had some good in laws, Father, Mother, Brother, & Sister, just for examples. :-) D

  16. palani

    February 7, 2014 at 7:30 AM

    Void for vagueness is another phrase that should be included in your arsenal.

    VAGUENESS. Uncertainty.

    2. Certainty is required in contracts, wills, pleadings, judgments, and indeed in all the acts on which courts have to give a judgment, and if they be vague, so as not to be understood, they are in general invalid.

  17. Al Lopez

    February 7, 2014 at 8:50 AM

    Reblogged this on The Firewall.

  18. Richard M Nixon (Deceased)

    February 7, 2014 at 9:42 AM

    Reblogged this on Dead Citizen's Rights Society.

  19. Adask

    February 7, 2014 at 12:00 PM

    Palani . . . The DEBTOR is not the issue. The CREDITOR (the man/institution holding the paper debt instrument) is the issue.

    If the debt can’t be paid, the CREDITOR loses whatever paper debt-instruments he was holding as ASSETS. Once those “assets” (even though illusory) are known to be worthless, the nation’s supply of (illusory) CAPITAL may be so diminished that the banking system collapses and there’s no more credit to fund the start of new businesses, buildings or fields of corn. Will our banks and credit cards still work?

    It’s absolutely true that these paper debt-instruments are a kind of fiction, illusion and fraud–but so what? The nation has come to depend on them as if they were “real”. When the nations wakes up and rejects these illusions, what will take their place?

    It’s like setting fire to all of the Monopoly money that comes with that game. Once that “money” is gone, no matter how illusory it may have been, what will take its place?

    You can’t eliminate the paper debt without also eliminating the paper assets. When the paper assets (real or illusory) are gone, you’re bankrupt. Then what?

    What will we use for capital when the US bonds are perceived to be largely worthless? What will we even be able to use for currency?

    It may be that you’ve protected yourself in ways that will allow you to survive despite the loss of US bonds. But if you’re protected, you’re one of two or three people in a hundred who are protected. What about the other 97 to 99% who have no clue as to what’s happening and no means of protection? What will they do, and how will you protect yourself against them?

    Without assets–even illusory assets–the economy can’t continue to function. That’s when all hell may break loose.

    • Collin

      February 11, 2014 at 4:17 AM

      Adask ! The united States has already gone through high inflation with It’s first two central banks ! and we survived it then ! What makes you think we wont now ? We do what J.F. Kennedy and abe Lincoln did we start issuing DEBT FREE currency And / OR gold and silver Why on Earth should we let a PRIVATE group of people have a Monopoly on creating the currency ? WHY ROB OUR PEOPLE OF ALL THE TAXES required to pay interest ? Unless your a banker looking for a free ride to riches It makes no sense or serves no purpose ! It seems like you don’t want to disrupt the greatest Ponzi scheme in history ! Where what is the figure 1% own over 60% of the worlds wealth or something close to that because of this Ponzi scheme !

      • Pat Fields

        February 11, 2014 at 5:35 AM

        Collin … “We do what J.F. Kennedy and abe Lincoln did we start issuing DEBT FREE currency”

        The problem isn’t with Interest, so much as with circulating Loan Credit in place of money. Whether banks or governments issue these “Bills of Credit” is immaterial to their destructive effect on accurate, rational Price Discovery.

        Conveyance of credit through society is a necessity. Prior to 1776, when Adam Smith popularized the ‘Discounted Real Bill’ alternative, ‘Loan at Interest’ was the prevalent model which had always caused more misery than benefit, illustrated by myriad prohibitions of different sorts throughout history; from total ban on interest (theft of money’s Time Value and failure to compensate Risk), to Rate Regulation.

        Discounted Real Bills though, conveys the major bulk of credit, which occurs between the points of raw goods production and final sale of finished goods to end-users, by each intra-processor discounting his invoice relative to speed of payment (in real, debt-extinguishing, money). That money then flows back through the production steps, from Merchant to the initial Producer, each receiving his invoice amount minus discount.

        The truly per-meditated criminal act of the banks, was having commandeered the Real Bill Clearing Process and selfishly reverting all Credit Conveyance back to Loan at Interest, until at present, I might confidently suspect no one reading this comment had any idea that a Real Bill system ever existed at all.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 11, 2014 at 9:47 AM

        I’ve have been trying to figure out for three decades now, what will happen when the day comes, that the awareness will exist from enough people, that our, the US’s, fiat currency is going to finally reach it’s intrinsic value, as all fiat currencies have eventually done in history. I’m not sure there is another country that has ever gone through this transformation with the exact same parameters as ours. Probably the USSR is closest, but they did not have nearly as much money in circulation nor where they the world’s Reserve currency at the time.

        As every one should know, the use of the USDollar by other countries, as the reserve trade currency is diminishing, as countries such as China, India, Russia, Brazil and others have started to do direct trading with their own currencies, exclusive of the USD. This money that was once ear-marked for such use, must now seek different markets in which to utilized it’s current value. The most natural way is to bring it back to the original issuing country, the US and put it to work in that country. This however expands the money supply, up and above what ever expansion of the money supply was and is still being issued by the political and banking system via deficit spending and fractional lending, respectively, the two primary causations of inflation. If you haven’t noticed, essentials such as house hold products, auto parts and various food prices have started to accelerate in recent months, I believe higher than typical to the reported inflation rate.

        Recent higher real estate prices appear to be the result of a buying frenzy in such areas as low income housing, sending prices upward. Real estate investors are putting significant upward pressure on rental prices as the market is dominated by at least 50% investor and sometimes as much as 80% in certain markets, over owner occupied buyers. More renters from the on slot of past and continues foreclosures is causing higher rental prices which in turn is giving reason for real estate investors to pay higher prices for these properties.

        I’m getting uneasy, as it appears, the average person can no longer afford the average priced housing once against and “real” home buyers are getting squeezed out of the market due to affordability, as wages are not keeping pace with prices and investors have permeating the market as they did during the 2000’s helping to exacerbate the real estate boom and eventual bust.

        It is my opinion, those with huge USDollar denominated holdings are not going to lay down and just allow a cancelation of debt or even a restructuring of debt without great pushback. They would rather squeeze the majority through higher prices and lower wages caused by the stagflation we are currently suffering from. I don’t think that they can make a mad dash to hard assets either, as that would cause a panic amongst investors, destabilizing the already fragile financial markets.

        I have been suggesting to friends and family for 15 years now that getting out of dollar denominated investments, such as stocks and bonds and into asset backed investments such as real estate, gold and silver is wise and that you should take procession. Real estate holding costs such as taxes and insurance and affordability of course make it less attractive than other assets.

        When the majority catches on in mass to these realities, as many are already starting to do, there is going to be a mad rush into hard assets and in my opinion it will be fast and furious. Pick your targets wisely. It can be wood, food, gold, silver, toilet paper, etc. Anything that can be sold or traded that has perceived value. Will tampons be the next medium of exchange, no one can tell you, but paper money, like the USSR Ruble was used as firewood in it’s last days.

        How the ruling oligarchy handles this transformation, we can only try to guess at. One’s things for sure, they are going to try manipulate and benefit is some way or the other, I do not know but wish I did.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM

        Collin – you are correct, but as an IRS agent told a friend of mine, “your right Mr. Doe, but that’s not how the system works”, when referring to the specific law that requires the majority to pay an federal income tax and it’s enforcement.

        A bankers product is money and they will manipulate the value of that money for their benefit, excluding all others, if necessary. If your lucky, you guess correctly what they are doing and emulate them or else you get crushed, like has happened to so many already. If you are a crony, you might want to make sure you follow their advice to the tee.

        If you have a way in which to effectuate your proposal, I think you could get a huge number of people to follow. However, you will also have just as many enemies against any such plan.

        The Citizens have been fighting for liberty for thousands of years and sadly “we” have not yet come up with a method to both obtain it, without violent means, and more importantly maintain it, the few times it was achieved, to any significant manner. In many respects, we are perhaps worse off today then we were under King George, the turd.

        Until such time as we can sever justice from the political grasps of the oligarchs, the Citizens will obey and be bound by the chains which they revere – paraphrased from Voltaire, with Citizens in place of Fools.

      • J.M.

        February 11, 2014 at 3:04 PM

        @ Adask ! You sound like a BANKER !

        One more example of how some of us sometimes understand some things exactly different from the other. Collin, Alfred Adask, IS NOT A BANKER, and you can BANK ON IT, or you CAN take that to the BANK

      • Russell Arms

        June 29, 2015 at 12:32 AM

        @ Adask ! You sound like a BANKER ! COME ON!
        COME ON lemme show ya whur it’s AT ! COMMM-ON lemme show you whur it’s AT! COME ON ! lemme show ya whur it’s at !! THUH NAME OF THUH PLACE IS I LAK IT LAK DAT.

  20. palani

    February 7, 2014 at 2:21 PM

    @ Alfred “Once that “money” is gone, no matter how illusory it may have been, what will take its place?”
    That is the trillion dollar question for one who would prefer to dabble in that thing (whatever it might be) while it exists as a cheap commodity.

    If I had a crystal ball and with a certain amount of reflecting upon mankinds history since Roman times I would suggest that a return to feudal tenures is quite possible. After all there was little money in circulation during the time when the feudal system was created and the driving force behind this system was invading armies and a method to authorize land ownership. In 1200 years what has changed (once the illusion of money is gone)? Not saying I am advocating this just that this paradigm shift is one possibility.

    • Jetlag

      February 7, 2014 at 3:04 PM

      @palani “In 1200 years what has changed (once the illusion of money is gone)?”

      Technology has advanced enormously. However, in addition to demolishing the nation state, the NWO is also targeting the technology (or, more specifically, its implementation) upon which modern civilization is based. This is the main reason for the Global Warming hoax, for example.

      The NWO utopia does indeed resemble a return to feudal times in some ways. Though it’s a world in which no form of social organization remains to impose a credible check on the power of money.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 7, 2014 at 4:49 PM

        Jetlag & palani – well put. As you know I am not to fond of the nation state concept and instead favor voluntary association(s). If you have ever perused the Law of Nations, you should find one flaw, in that it gave government “rights” it cannot possess because only individual have rights and they, as individuals cannot grant any greater rights to the group, than they have themselves without acquiescing at least a portion of them. As an example, either an individual has the right to travel or they do not. If we grant government the power of denying or regulating travel, then no real right exists. It’s one of the primary reasons government ends up creating so much adversity in a society. Those who govern end up running roughshod over the rights of those they rule over, as the protection of individual rights are abrogated. Government is actually antithetic to liberty and hence why our Constitution, based on the protection of individual rights, has slowly abrogated the vast majority of them. Legalized force will always prevail over voluntary association, if it is allowed and we have surely allowed it.

        I want to build a huge Voluntary Association of Jurists, one that focuses on one thing; providing justice based on the principle of the protection of individual rights. It has to be accomplished by the intellectuals of a society. First the software and system must be set up to handle the debates and caseload. But we can do this easily through cloud funding and other methods. Once the system is set up then we can build the Association, literally one person at a time. It is one of those ideas where the participation of each individual minimizes the work of each individual within the group. The more individuals you have, the less each of us has to do. There were voluntary associations that operated “worldwide” during the 1800s, even providing unemployment compensation and health insurance benefits. The book “The Voluntary City” by The Independence Institute goes into depth on these associations. to learn more go to:

      • J.M.

        February 11, 2014 at 3:21 PM

        @ >Technology has advanced enormously.

        Daniel 12th Chapter, in pertinent part, > Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” … the Lord Jesus shall stand at the latter day upon the earth; (< Mt. of Olives ?) and He shall appear for the complete……" < Guess what !!

        1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

        2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

        3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.


        February 11, 2014 at 3:52 PM

        Understanding what punctuation marks mean will aide in READING COMPREHENSION!

        The colon is a punctuation mark consisting of two equally sized dots centered on the same vertical line. A colon is used to explain or start an enumeration. The most common use of the colon is to inform the reader that what follows the colon proves, explains, defines, describes, or lists elements of what preceded it.

        Here is a COLON > : <

        Technology has NOTHING what so ever to do with Daniel 12:4 The KNOWLEDGE that was to "increase." was in the BOOK! Period!!

  21. J.M.

    February 8, 2014 at 4:58 PM

    Re: > Of course a haircut is a partial default,………….”
    The above is not taken out of context because of where the quotation marks are.

    Wow !!! I have several partial defaults in my life & actually need one now. Otherwise I will be making a certain scripture meaningless, & just another scripture nailed to the cross, etc.

  22. tom

    February 9, 2014 at 4:42 PM

    Collin- Feb 6, has the right answer and all other posts are borderline trollin. Offcourse, there will be pain in transition but that is the only way to lay a good foundation rather than living as paupers as at current time.

    Acknowledgement that you have become sinners-debtors-bondmen rather than the false bravado of claiming to be freemen comes even before repentence. Thats the sting i hope you are willing to endure now instead of later when its to late and no chance of forgiveness and a healing.

    • J.M.

      February 9, 2014 at 7:05 PM

      Some people are Roofers, Carpenters, Plumbers, Electricians Welders, Doctors & on & on. May I ask what your profession .or trade,occupation,etc. is or was???

      • Collin

        February 9, 2014 at 11:55 PM

        machinist !

  23. tom

    February 9, 2014 at 4:54 PM

    Harry above also made a good comment.

    Alfred raised a good inquisitive question with this article but his ponderings as how to solve the problem are wrong whereas Collin has the correct answer.

  24. tom

    February 9, 2014 at 5:12 PM

    Using the Monopoly game analogy and where u ask at the end “what happens when all of the money is burned up and gone, what to take its place?”

    Well you should have never have been playing in a rigged game which was originally created for you to lose-where it is impossible to win. I know its group/herd mentality and not pointing directly at you.

    Further; there are at least 1001 options to replace the current order some better than others, however only one is right and the Scriptures lays out the right path.

    • Adask

      February 9, 2014 at 6:54 PM

      Yes, we should not be playing the game. But we are. Our friends are playing, our neighbors are playing, the whole nation is playing and virtually none of them understands that this is a “game”. Virtually all of them take it so seriously that they are nearly ready to kill to protect their “monopoly money”.

      The “monopoly money” is destined to be vaporized into nothingness. When that happens, virtually all of the wealth (former labor, energy, intellect) that was earned and then saved will disappear. People’s wealth will be destroyed. This seems inevitable to me. If it is inevitable, I see no way that the financial system can continue to function without it’s paper “capital”. I see no way to shift from one monetary system to another. I see no way to transfer all of our previous wealth (savings) from the fragile medium of Federal Reserve Notes to whatever medium will replace it.

      Real wealth is currently being saved in FRNs, but that wealth will be lost when the debt finally overwhelms us and (presumably) causes some or all of the value of our FRNs to disappear.

  25. Yartap

    February 9, 2014 at 8:35 PM

    The total U.S. debt is over $60.8 Trillion dollars. The U.S. government’s share of this debt is 28.4% or $17.3 Trillion dollars (up from 22.3% in 2000). The private sector has a 71.6% share of the total U.S. debt or $43.5 Trillion dollars.

    Of course, today, the private sector pays around 8-9% interest on the $43.5 Trillion private debt or $3.9 Trillion / year (that’s down from $4.5 Trillion in 2008); and the Federal government pays around 2-3% interest on its $17.3 Trillion dollar public debt or around $500 Billion / year. Note the Federal government’s budgeted interest cost percentage is at 8% of the budget; but, it is projected to increase each year by a percentage point, each and every year after.

    It is projected that the total U.S. debt (now $60.8 Trillion, private & public) will hit $100 Trillion Dollars by the year 2031, just 17 years from now; and it will hit $200 Trillion by 2040, another 9 years. And in 2060, just another 20 years, the total U.S. debt will hit $1 Quadrillion dollars.

    It should be noted that from the year 2000, the Federal government has more that tripled its debt or access to capital; whereas, the private sector is just slightly under three times its debt. By using the Rule of 72 (number of years to double debt = money supply / interest rate of inflation), one discovers that from 1996 to 2008 (12 years) the money supply or debt doubled for an inflation rate of 6% compounded each year; and from 2006 to 2014 (8 years) the money supply or debt doubled for an inflation rate of 9% compounded each year. Will our total debts double in the next 4 years for an inflation rate of 18%?

    • hskiprob

      February 9, 2014 at 10:12 PM

      Yaftap – It’s the unfunded liabilities, or the expenses that our politicians have signed us up for, each year, in the future, is over $50 trillion, some say even higher. Add in the State and local debt, the various government entities owe, right now, more then they can pay back and “various” Cities, Port Authorities, Counties and States are already at or near default. 48 million on food stamps and the percentage on the various forms of welfare is at all time highest levels. Social Security was not supposed to be a welfare system, but the politicians raided the fund and spent in.

      If you look at the last fifteen years and apply the inflation rate to the next 15 years, gold will be at $3600 an ounce and many commodities with be three times their current value. However, it will be much greater than that, as the US is loosing it’s currency battle, having increased the money supply to such levels, as perhaps only Japan and a few others can claim a greater increase as a percentage of their GDP.

      We’re sadly, economically in a much more dire strait than many understand.

      • J.M.

        February 10, 2014 at 1:20 AM

        @ > We’re sadly, economically in a much more dire strait than many understand.

        And what’s even sadder that that is, most people don’t understand WHY & could care less.
        How sad, well, TRAGIC is a better word.

      • Pat Fields

        February 10, 2014 at 3:29 AM

        J.M. … “We’re sadly, economically in a much more dire strait than many understand”

        Only if the illusion of imaginary numbers is accepted on its face.

        In reality (a fact the Board of Labor Statistics has documented), the American banknote has depreciated about 98% in Purchase Power since 1913. So, each unit has a TRUE physical counterpart of 6.6 grams of copper.

        If the mere number of ‘M-1’ banknote units (not ‘values’ for whimsical claims of ‘worth’) is converted to such ‘Coppers’ … THEN … how ‘frightful’ is the debt? By my calculations, based on REAL COPPER in American warehouses (ignoring huge amounts of ‘scrap’), the ‘problem’ Bonds and banknotes CAUSING our woes, can be eradicated within a very short time-span … AND … put our country back on a sound, sustainable platform of Honest Money.

        Don’t fall for the ‘numbers game’. It’s like huge inflatable ‘monster’ full of nothing but hot air. The outward appearance of ‘volume’ is actually … empty space inside.

      • Yartap

        February 10, 2014 at 8:45 AM

        Hi Skip,

        I concur with your thoughts. All I was doing was showing projections verses reality. The illusions of predictions are meant and used by most to put off action by the people in power (govt.).



        February 11, 2014 at 10:16 PM

        I found a reply button for you down here.

        You said, …”J.M. Interesting that those who criticize you talk of babble, but as I see it you ask more questions then they are willing to or can answer. Keep up the good work bro. One suggestion, less acronyms”….

        I hate this. I came here and posted a comment that was ON TOPIC. and provided some links. J.M. did not make a comment to my point, and later ridiculed my spelling.
        WHAT questions was I NOT …”willing to or can answer”…??? The key thing you said is MORE THAN. As in TOO MANY! Unproductive babble, that it is hard to even want to answer.
        What “good work” is J.M. engaged in?

        DO you even know what an “ACRONYM” is? I have seen him post an “ABBREVIATION” twice for Government and Country? Gov. Co. but not one acronym.

        No, I did not receive an Email from him. I think it is the same with his CLAIM that he has posted something on here, and “all of it didn’t post” I call B.S. I have operated a WordPress site for a year now and have commented on many of them for five years and NEVER had that happen or heard of such! He has my correct email so what could not be the problem? B.S.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 13, 2014 at 3:43 PM

        Edoms Thorm – Why don’t you ask me, I wrote it. The answer is: Trying To Seek the Truth. A “truth” believer.

        Religion and Science both take a leap of faith. I will explain. We as human beings can only perceive things we can understand. The idea that something comes for nothing is hard for us to understand as we are taught all things come from something. However there are those dilemmas such as what came first the chicken or the egg and you will get a host of “theories” on just this one unknown situation. Well it is logical to believe that the chicken had to come first unless you believe an egg “can” come from nothing. All of a sudden an egg came from nowhere or, if you’re a believer, God just made the chicken able to lay an egg? Most likely, the chicken replicated itself, first as a live bearer than for some reason started having a hardened shell to protect some portion of the reproductive process.

        Let’s for a minute, relate this to the big bang “theory”. For there to be a big bang, there must have been something; matter, antimatter, quarks, blackholes, bla, bla, bla, here already. Well, where did that stuff come from, “nowhere”; it just always been here? For human beings to believe that something comes from nothing, it takes a leap of faith and that is why they are called belief systems. To believe that God has just always been here is hard for people to comprehend. That an entity that has that much power that he can create a universe and all the life we perceive is irrational taking into consideration that he allows such atrocities to happen to human beings, that God created in his own image.

        So let’s see, God creates human being in his own image and because they just didn’t act the way he wanted them to, he therefore destroys the world in a great flood, so that the survivors, who just turned out to be as unethical and barbaric as the ones he destroyed, can therefore inhabit the earth? God needs to do a better job next time. LOL

        I believe in God. I however make not claims as to what God is or isn’t, has done, can do or will do or where he came from. How in the heck would I know. With what little we know about our world and how it came into existence or has it just always been there, as God has?

        Maybe religion and science are both partially correct, God and the necessary components of the Universe have always been here, he just assembled them using the existing matter, antimatter, quarks, blackholes, bla, bla, bla.

        Conclusion: Since we cannot prove where God and the matter, antimatter bla bla bla came from, we “must” all take that leap of faith in both science and religion to believe them.

        All religions claim to have all the answers, as does science, to these basic questions despite weak evidence. The only real evidence we have is a few books and “it’s here” and it must have come from somewhere, so all the stories passed down must be true, even if they’ve been embellished to meet the needs of the most powerful Churches and Nation States. People have believed in a plethora of supernatural beings over the ages, because it appears to give them some form of solace that helps them through life, whether true or not, because it makes them feel good and there are few that are willing to except this as truth. To me those are the “truth” believers. Not to many centuries ago people were still sacrificing others to appease the Gods. Apparently that doesn’t work either.

      • Russell Arms

        June 29, 2015 at 1:02 AM

        @ For human beings to believe that something comes from nothing, it takes a leap of faith and that is why they are called belief systems.
        Yes indeed. Common sense says you are right. BUT, we do SEE SOME THINGS that had to come FROM SOMETHING. It’s just impossible to grasp that “SOMETHING” with our 5 finite senses. I have 2 dogs & I KNOW for a FACT they somehow SEE things I cannot see. Animals somehow seem to sense when an earthquake is near at hand when people cannot. We cannot see gravity or the wind, but we can sure see the effects of it.Just because we cannot see it doesn’t necessarily mean it does not exist & is not real.

      • hskiprob

        August 13, 2015 at 12:23 PM

        Agreed. however, nor does it mean it does exist just because we may sense it through other than the 5 finite senses to observe empirical means.

    • Pat Fields

      February 10, 2014 at 5:04 AM


      All the figures you cited are numerical illusions having no real foundation. Numbers, in and of themselves are ephemeral constructs to aid arrangement of real things into order. Arrangement of sheer numbers for their own end and ‘purpose’ … is insane.

      What is a ‘dollar’? If defined as relative to a weight of silver being 371.25 grains of pure silver, then the numbers you assume as ‘valid’ are an impossibility. There is no such quantity of silver in existence on the surface of this planet and only the very remotest possibility of there EVER being such quantity.

      So, what connection to the real world do these ‘trillions’ actually relate to? Are they ‘trillions’ of electrons that amount to a bucket of sand? Nothing very fearsome or ‘insurmountable’ there in my eyes.

      • Yartap

        February 10, 2014 at 8:46 AM

        Hi Pat,

        I concur with your thoughts. All I was doing was showing projections verses reality. The illusions of predictions are meant and used by most to put off action by the people in power (govt.).


      • J.M.

        February 10, 2014 at 3:36 PM

        Pat Fields,
        @ Your entire message > February 10, 2014 at 5:04 AM

        WOW !!!! & WOW again !!! AND, as I have said, you are the master in this line of “subject matter.” When will “some” people know enough to “see” this ? We who are pussycats challenging the TIGER & LION? oh me oh my. tsk tsk tsk.

      • J.M.

        February 10, 2014 at 3:47 PM

        Pat Fields,
        @ And what’s even sadder that that is, most people don’t understand WHY.
        You, Pat, are not included in “most people……..”
        @ J.M. … “We’re sadly, economically in a much more dire strait than many understand”
        In case anyone may misunderstand,etc., I, J.M. did not say/write the above statement, Skip Robinson said, “We’re sadly, economically in a much more dire strait than many understand”

  26. J.M.

    February 10, 2014 at 2:05 AM

    Do you know “why” I asked torn the question?

    • Collin

      February 10, 2014 at 4:09 AM

      No !

      • J.M.

        February 10, 2014 at 3:23 PM

        February 10, 2014 at 4:09 AM
        @ No !
        Why didn’t you continue with your thought & say, “and I don’t give a damn,& I could care less.”
        Actually, your, No! answer was & is sufficient to show anyone with some depth of perception your degree of same & I did not & probably do need to even add to your No! answer. I should have let well enough alone. IF ANYTHING, all I should have written in THIS response is, “enuff said.” Collin,are you scratchin your head? You are not puzzled,are you?

  27. james

    February 11, 2014 at 12:11 AM

    wait, if the paper asset goes away in a debt repudiation along with the debt, doesn’t that cancel eachother out and leave only tall assets left on the table? then, whoever has those real assets can trade and barter those for others labor or maybe even lend those assets out if they want? debt repudiation works. it just has to be done carefully and incrementally. the losers are those with the paper, but isn’t that what need too be done?

    • Adask

      February 11, 2014 at 12:35 AM

      What about your savings? Your savings are debts owed to you. Those savings can be in the form of a bank account, pension fund, So-So Security, US bonds, stocks, and similar debt (to you) instruments. What happens to all of your savings (the debts owed TO YOU) when all the debts are cancelled?

      Will we only cancel the debts that you owe, but not the debts that are owed to you?

      What happens when all the debts (including the sums owed to you) are cancelled? Can the economy survive without some sort of financial assets that can be loaned and borrowed? I don’t think so.

      • Collin

        February 11, 2014 at 1:28 AM

        No were talking about debts that the bank created out of thin air ! Not money you worked for and deposited in a bank ! YOU DID’NT COUNTERFIET THE MONEY You deposited ! Like the bank did when they made you a so called loan ! You see we have to stop letting bankers get a free ride in life on the backs of everybody else ! So you should get and probably will get your savings , pension ,so-so security , but bonds and stocks are a gamble with NO guarantee ! And after the bankers print to the moon to try to keep there FRAUD afloat what you get on your pension ,so-so security and Cash (FRN) will be worth next to nothing ! That’s why you save in silver and gold that YOU hold ! OR get ready to loose everything !

      • Yartap

        February 11, 2014 at 11:31 AM

        Hi Collin,

        Your forgetting, the FRN’s are backed by U.S. Bonds. It the bonds are no good, then the FRN’s are no good.


      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 11, 2014 at 12:25 PM

        The bond market is just another dollar denominated investment that has historically bit the dust when the money did, in such Countries as the Wiemar Republic of Germany. Whose on first is irrelevant. i.e. which one starts the decent first. I’ve been told, but have no confirmation that high demand for loans using Treasuries as collateral have caused lenders to drop the loan to value to 50%, whereas just 15 years ago the LTV was near 98%. The is a result of too many treasuries chasing to few dollars as the banks are reluctant to loan. This rational still remains unknown to the general public, like ourselves!!!! We can only assume, it is to keep the money supply down as low as possible, as the various Treasuries and USD’s come home to roust from abroad, as our reserve currency status diminishes. I.E. if the banks started lending as the once did, inflation would be at least double digit.

  28. Collin

    February 11, 2014 at 2:02 AM

    IF we don’t void all OUT Of THIN AIR DEBT we will LOOSE EVERYTHING ! If we void the OUT OF THINN AIR DEBT We at least Keep Our house , car ect.

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 2:46 AM


      Is there a law against making/printing copies of counterfeits? Ummmm, maybe I’m missing something here, as usual, but if not, thank you Collin for the idea.

      • J.M.

        February 11, 2014 at 5:28 AM

        @ >J.M.- I have been exposing this for over 25 years to almost everyone I talk to because I cant watch my future and my kid’s future get robed out from under us without a fight

        ok, so then you were not one of the, WE. You & I have been doing the same thing. I get answers like, can’t rock the boat, can’t fight city hall, I have a family to think of, & in all honesty, I.J.M can’t fight that statement of family concern. It literally breaks my heart. Anyway, when you said WE, I understood it to mean, that, we, included you. I had to be hurt & I mean hurt bad BEFORE I could THEN “see” hey, wait a minute, there is something BAD BAD wrong here. This cannot happen in the land of the free. HEY, thanks for the “counterfeiting idea.” I hope it’s understood what I mean. How can it be a crime for making copies OF counterfeits??? It’s probably “using” the copies that they getcha for. YO AWNNUH, J.M. is charged with using, trying to pass on copies of the original counterfeits as tho they were the original counterfeits. blah blah blah & so on.

      • J.M.

        February 11, 2014 at 9:05 PM

        Re: Counterfeiting
        Ohhh now I know. THEY have a license to counterfeit, we don’t. Yartap, I believe is the one who gave a court excerpt, or definition of a license being, “Permission from a “competent” authority to do something illegal.” AND, it doesn’t matter if it’s legal or illegal we still need permission from “competent authorities” to engage in the action/game/necessity, or call it whatever you, I, or anyone wants to. Timmy calls it/them, “Stamp of Approval Documents.” Timmy is my bloodhound, this is what I have “nicknamed” Timmy. Timmy can be asleep & still smell a crime in progress. I like Timmy a lot. Julie, too. & of course Skip Robinson.

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 3:21 AM

      @ > ALL because WE were to FAT AND LAZY to fix it a long time ago ! COME ON!

      Well at least you are fessin up to your share of the blame, and as to why. Just to fat & lazy to care Why do you care now, if you do? Are you still fat & lazy? Quit pointing fingers unless you point your finger at yourself.

      • Collin

        February 11, 2014 at 3:39 AM

        J.M.- I have been exposing this for over 25 years to almost everyone I talk to because I cant watch my future and my kid’s future get robed out from under us without a fight !

    • Russell Arms

      June 29, 2015 at 1:07 AM

      @ We at least Keep Our house , car ect.

  29. J.M.

    February 11, 2014 at 2:56 AM

    February 6, 2014 at 3:03 PM
    The Constitution was based on the fiction………………”
    I don’t know what Constitution you are referring to but the Constitution I refer to, up until the 14th Amendment, WAS & IS a COMMON LAW DOCUMENT.

  30. Collin

    February 11, 2014 at 11:54 AM

    Yartap ! You’ve got it unbacked paper bonds and paper so called money ARE worthless !

  31. Yartap

    February 11, 2014 at 12:00 PM

    Our problem is USURY! (The charge of interest units which do not exist). All monetary systems that allow interest charges (usury), over time, will have to be corrected (discharged of debts).

    How is it that an interest charge which is not backed by anything can become a principle part? The answer is the interest charge must be created with a backing (govt. bonds) for its payment. Thus, endless inflation. If the interest charge is not created, then depression hits and loss of assets.

  32. Rog

    February 11, 2014 at 3:59 PM

    Too many termites. If left to their own devices they destroy the house. If we toss a match, the house is destroyed. Either way, no house. As drudge said, “Have an exit plan.”

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 5:21 PM

      @“Have an exit plan.”
      To where?

      • Roy

        February 11, 2014 at 8:59 PM

        Not to where, to what.

      • Rog

        February 11, 2014 at 9:00 PM


      • Rog

        February 11, 2014 at 9:03 PM

        Not to where,to what.

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 9:09 PM

      @ > to what.
      To what ??? What does what mean?? Now don’t have a baby but What does what mean? OR is it a secret?

    • J.M.

      February 11, 2014 at 11:50 PM

      @ > Too many termites.
      It’s good that the 1st letter in your name is R instead L.

  33. J.M.

    February 11, 2014 at 5:46 PM


    @ > Technology has NOTHING what so ever to do with Daniel 12:4 The KNOWLEDGE that was to “increase.” was in the BOOK! Period!!

    There must be an increase in knowledge to know how to increase technology. It is ALSO written in the Book of Daniel, the following, in Daniel Chapter 12

    8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

    9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

    The end of WHAT? Your END E.T. & my END of WHAT time knowledge are different. We are in that end time TODAY, Hoss.

    Oh, by the way, EDOMS THORN, the I, in I heard, is Daniel.

  34. J.M.

    February 11, 2014 at 8:33 PM

    Skip. ITS BACK !!!
    @ >Interesting that those who criticize you talk of babble,

    I wish I knew how to express/write in words how a donkey sounds when he is laughing or trying to make it known that he is alive & kickin, anyway Heeeee HAW He HAW He HAW Heeee HAW !!!

  35. J.M.

    February 12, 2014 at 2:07 AM

    @ He has my correct email so what could not be the problem? B.S.
    I am forced to conclude that YHWH prevented you from receiving my emails because the purpose of the emails was for you to send me a physical address so I could send donations to support your cause research,etc. & because YOU, EDOMS THORN had me hooked on what you were coming up with. I did not know at the time what I was being led into. We live & learn. When you E.T. loudly proclaim who Edom is & who Israel is over & over REPEATEDLY as tho that’s all that is necessary to know, this is one of the best deception maneuvers I have seen yet. When it comes to what Israel needs to DO is something you balk at. VERY CLEVER, E.T. There have been other posters that had me nibblin at their bait also. You’re not the only one, ET but so far, you are the best of them all. You’re the cream of the crop.On this very thread, those IF ANY who care, will see what is transpiring. YHWH knows my heart & he prevented you from getting my emails because he doesn’t want me supporting a deception program. I don’t know of a gentler way to say or put it. However thank you for bringing up scripture that proved my understanding of what “born again” means. I followed a still small voice as to what to do to get that admission from you. SATAN knows what the scriptures mean too oh yes indeed he does. This is one time it backfired on him.


      February 12, 2014 at 2:52 AM

      What a joke. So those post’s you claim did not completely post so ALL of it could be read was because God did not want you to fully expose yourself for the babbling Proverbs 18:2 “Fool” that you are? God was also preventing you from exposing yourself as LIAR too?!

      I am sorry to have offend you and for my rudeness as I told you before, but how old are you? Twelve? Did you claim that your posts were not posting fully to make it appear that you have been censored? Why do you think that was believable? Do you think everyone here is twelve and like mystery and intrigue and would believe that? Don’t reply. I am through playing games.

      • J.M.

        February 12, 2014 at 8:23 PM

        @ >I am sorry to have offend you and for my rudeness as I told you before, but ………………”

        You didn’t offend me.

        @ > I am through playing games.

        I hope so,but.

  36. J.M.

    February 13, 2014 at 1:24 PM

    Before It’s News, (< Source of what is written below)

    "The Department of Homeland Security is set to activate a national license plate tracking system that will be shared with law enforcement, allowing DHS officers to take photos of any license plate using their smartphone and upload it to a database which will include a “hot list” of “target vehicles”.

    The details are included in a PDF attachment uploaded yesterday to the Federal Business Opportunities website under a solicitation entitled “National License Plate Recognition Database.”

    The system will “track vehicle license plate numbers that pass through cameras or are voluntarily entered into the system from a variety of sources (access control systems, asset recovery specialists, etc.) and uploaded to share with law enforcement” in order to help locate “criminal aliens and absconders.”

    What is a criminal alien? Illegal immigrant maybe? That wouldn’t make much sense. Why would DHS need this? Why would anyone need this? The DMV should have everything shouldn’t they? This story makes no sense at all. "

    It makes sense to me, & I have suspected before that soon another National ID will be required. Another Mark of the Beast Stamp of Approval Documents., as Timmy calls them.

  37. J.M.

    February 13, 2014 at 1:53 PM

    Edoms Thorn says, > I think it is the same with his CLAIM that he has posted something on here, and “all of it didn’t post” I call B.S. I have operated a WordPress site for a year now and have commented on many of them for five years and NEVER had that happen or heard of such! He has my correct email so what could not be the problem? B.S.


    January 22, 2014 at 4:01 PM

    I have posting problems… TESTING (< End of comment by Edoms Thorn on War of 1812 thread).

    Seems we do have posting problems too. I, J.M., was honest & truthful about my posting problems

  38. Harry Skip Robinson

    February 13, 2014 at 4:39 PM

    Edom and JM. I got on the wrong thread. Woops.
    Collin, do you still believe that we should wipe out the debt. Didn’t Iceland, do something along these lines? I thing they also forgave a lot of the mortgage debt. Japan would be toast, if we did that but I think their days are numbered anyway. They have more debt out per capita hen we do.

    If we did it probably all the other countries would have to follow. There is no easy way out though. The question in reality, can we control the freefall of the various currencies once that starts to happen? Even Soros is concerned with this.

    • Collin

      February 13, 2014 at 9:08 PM

      I ONLY say to Void OUT OF THINN AIR DEBT ! Not so called money you put away in savings or so called money you lend a friend or your pension or s.s. security those are only as good as the people running them ! so when you trust banks / governments with your LIFE SAVINGS history shows these people lie cheat and steal !

      • Adask

        February 13, 2014 at 9:46 PM

        That might be what you say now, but it’s not what you (or the 3rd grader who advises you on economic policy) said in the beginning of this debate.

        But OK–now we’re only going to void the “THINN AIR DEBT”. Great.

        But how will you be able to distinguish between the “THINN AIR DEBT” and the rest of the debt that has represents some substance? I’m again reminded of the parable of the wheat and the tares and the idea that once the “tares” (“THINN AIR DEBT”) get mixed in with the “wheat,” (legitimate debt) there may be no way to separate the one from the other without destroying some or all of the “wheat” (legit debt). Thus, even though we seek to merely cancel all of the “THINN AIR DEBT,” can we do so without also canceling all or most of the “legitimate debt”?

        I’m not smart enough to know the answer to that question, but I’m pretty sure that the question and answer are somewhat above your 3rd grader’s pay grade.

        If you want to debate economic policy on this blog, you’d better seek an adviser who’s at least in Junior High.

    • J.M.

      February 17, 2014 at 7:43 AM

      Hi Skip,
      @ >There is always a way but the hard part is getting others to join in any significant transformation.
      How do I go about joining? It’s very difficult to sell freezers in the Winter & wood burning stoves in the Summer. A lot of most peoples loved ones exist on S.S. What about them?

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 17, 2014 at 2:35 PM

        Things seldom change rapidly but when they do it is generally in a free fall. As far as Social Security, it is a social contract that I believe must continue to be observed, however should we slowly phase it out over the long term; Yes. Social Security is in many respects the least of our worries although the short and long term liabilities are tremendous. Whether you know it or not many people in past generations, my wife’s mother as an example, never paid into Social Security nor received it and lived to 91, a realtor by trade dying about 5 years ago.

        SS, like the income tax is being fraudulently enforced today, so just allowing those who want it to continue and allowing those that don’t want it, to discontinue it would be a good start. Sadly past politicians pillaged the SS Trust fund in exchange for Treasuries; par for the course. Also bank balance sheets, pension funds, other governments, their sovereign funds and even some hedge funds have been forced to do this in exchange for the treasuries.

        Just remember that you can not go cold turkey on social programs, you must slowly wean people off programs and give them time to adjust. Whether it is firing a government employee of a private sector employee, the majority of people need either severance pay or some sort of time to restructure their careers and lives. A 10 percent annual cut in government spending would not kill our government nor any department within our government. If a guy is being paid $120K and you cut him $12K or IF a guy is making $55K and you cut him $5,500, he may be pissed but he is still going to survive easily and as good as he did before. The key is we need to get the private sector going and they only way to do that, is to significantly cut taxes and regulatory fees to especially the lower income levels. Abolition of the Federal Income Tax, both individual and corporate, if not done is going to almost single handedly destroy the lower and middle classes. Cold turkey once against is not recommended.

        You can sign up on the Website: All info will be held in confidence and as you should know by now, my word is as good as anyone on this planet.

  39. Collin

    February 13, 2014 at 9:58 PM

    More on Iceland’s Revolution and Kicking the Big Banks Out

    This article was from May 10, 2012 though it’s still an example of how to bring Freedom back.

    Since the 1900′s the vast majority of the American population has dreamed about saying “NO” to the Unconstitutional, corrupt, Rothschild/Rockefeller banking criminals, but no one has dared to do so.

    Peaceful protests, pots and pans and demonstrations against the banks brought down government

    Why? If just half of our Nation, and the “1%”, who pay the majority of the taxes, just said NO MORE! Our Gov’t would literally change over night. Why is it so hard, for some people to understand, that by simply NOT giving your money, to large Corporations, who then send jobs, Intellectual Property, etc. offshore and promote anti-Constitutional rights… You will accomplish more, than if you used violence. In other words… RESEARCH WHERE YOU ARE SENDING EVERY SINGLE PENNY!!! Is that so hard? The truth of the matter is… No one, except the Icelanders, have to been the only culture on the planet to carry out this successfully. Not only have they been successful, at overthrowing the corrupt Gov’t, they’ve drafted a Constitution, that will stop this from happening ever again. That’s not the best part… The best part, is that they have arrested ALL Rothschild/Rockefeller banking puppets, responsible for the Country’s economic Chaos and meltdown.

    Last week 9 people were arrested in London and Reykjavik for their possible responsibility for Iceland’s financial collapse in 2008, a deep crisis which developed into an unprecedented public reaction that is changing the country’s direction.

    It has been a revolution without weapons in Iceland, the country that hosts the world’s oldest democracy (since 930), and whose citizens have managed to effect change by going on demonstrations and banging pots and pans. Why have the rest of the Western countries not even heard about it?

    Pressure from Icelandic citizens’ has managed not only to bring down a government, but also begin the drafting of a new constitution (in process) and is seeking to put in jail those bankers responsible for the financial crisis in the country. As the saying goes, if you ask for things politely it is much easier to get them.

    This quiet revolutionary process has its origins in 2008 when the Icelandic government decided to nationalise the three largest banks, Landsbanki, Kaupthing and Glitnir, whose clients were mainly British, and North and South American.

    After the State took over, the official currency (krona) plummeted and the stock market suspended its activity after a 76% collapse. Iceland was becoming bankrupt and to save the situation, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) injected U.S. $ 2,100 million and the Nordic countries helped with another 2,500 million.

    Great little victories of ordinary people

    While banks and local and foreign authorities were desperately seeking economic solutions, the Icelandic people took to the streets and their persistent daily demonstrations outside parliament in Reykjavik prompted the resignation of the conservative Prime Minister Geir H. Haarde and his entire government.

    Citizens demanded, in addition, to convene early elections, and they succeeded. In April a coalition government was elected, formed by the Social Democratic Alliance and the Left Green Movement, headed by a new Prime Minister, Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir.

    Throughout 2009 the Icelandic economy continued to be in a precarious situation (at the end of the year the GDP had dropped by 7%) but, despite this, the Parliament proposed to repay the debt to Britain and the Netherlands with a payment of 3,500 million Euros, a sum to be paid every month by Icelandic families for 15 years at 5.5% interest.

    The move sparked anger again in the Icelanders, who returned to the streets demanding that, at least, that decision was put to a referendum. Another big small victory for the street protests: in March 2010 that vote was held and an overwhelming 93% of the population refused to repay the debt, at least with those conditions.

    This forced the creditors to rethink the deal and improve it, offering 3% interest and payment over 37 years. Not even that was enough. The current president, on seeing that Parliament approved the agreement by a narrow margin, decided last month not to approve it and to call on the Icelandic people to vote in a referendum so that they would have the last word.

    The bankers are fleeing in fear

    Returning to the tense situation in 2010, while the Icelanders were refusing to pay a debt incurred by financial sharks without consultation, the coalition government had launched an investigation to determine legal responsibilities for the fatal economic crisis and had already arrested several bankers and top executives closely linked to high risk operations.

    Interpol, meanwhile, had issued an international arrest warrant against Sigurdur Einarsson, former president of one of the banks. This situation led scared bankers and executives to leave the country en masse.

    In this context of crisis, an assembly was elected to draft a new constitution that would reflect the lessons learned and replace the current one, inspired by the Danish constitution.

    To do this, instead of calling experts and politicians, Iceland decided to appeal directly to the people, after all they have sovereign power over the law. More than 500 Icelanders presented themselves as candidates to participate in this exercise in direct democracy and write a new constitution. 25 of them, without party affiliations, including lawyers, students, journalists, farmers and trade union representatives were elected.

    Among other developments, this constitution will call for the protection, like no other, of freedom of information and expression in the so-called Icelandic Modern Media Initiative, in a bill that aims to make the country a safe haven for investigative journalism and freedom of information, where sources, journalists and Internet providers that host news reporting are protected.

    The people, for once, will decide the future of the country while bankers and politicians witness the transformation of a nation from the sidelines.

    • J.M.

      February 16, 2014 at 4:45 AM

      @ The people, for once, will decide the future of the country
      This is a very thinnish thought.Dream on.

      • Harry Skip Robinson

        February 16, 2014 at 9:26 AM

        J.M. – the banksters have long operated under the auspices of central banking. From the Pharaohs of Egypt until after the American Revolution, central banking was firmly in control of the monarchs of the world as each had their own central bank which served as the depository for the country or empire. A well stocked central bank is a necessity for those who attempt to centrally plan any economy and is as you know, the 5th platform of communism; something Marx obviously understood. The question was, did the communist manifesto, sold as a system to free the majority from the grasps of despotic rule, really give the ruling oligarchs of the world the guidelines to implement socialism as a means of retaking control of the society, after the various revolutions for independence defeated the long entrenched Monarchs. By 1913, every major economy in the world, once again had a central bank. Being well stocked through heavy taxation, was the part of the plan that necessitated every form of psychological and physical force necessary to fund the central banksters. The confiscation of gold in 1933, was typical of what has happened throughout the ages. What is interesting is the way in which it is sold to the public under “democracy” versus the way in which it is sold under the various authoritarian systems such as the monarchies and oligarchies. How did our constituted rule of law, allow for the unlawful confiscation of gold from the Citizens without those folks being prosecuted. Was our society so under the control of the ruling oligarchs by 1913, that an resistance would be squashed? One must only look at the progressive socialist mindset to see how easy it is to fool the majority into giving up liberties in exchange for the lies required to take central control of an entire society.

        Whether you know it or not, I’ve been working with a couple of groups who now have the technology to lower energy costs by over 90%. You would think that money would be pouring into these groups to help them bring their systems to the market place. There are however “always” those people who are well off under the current system and in this case, the oil cartels have invested $trillions into tankers, pipelines, GE gas turbines, smart meters, refineries, off shore oil rigs, etc. etc. etc. These folks, those that are receiving the financial benefits of the current system do not want to see a technology come along that would upset the apple cart to such a degree as these two groups offer.

        The same holds true for the central banksters. There are two many people that are well off under the current system, despite how poorly it works, for them to “willingly” change. Historically, it only changes because it worked so poorly that it eventually collapses under it’s own failures, hence the inevitable consequence of our fiat currency reaching it’s intrinsic value. The only question is how will it happen and how will the oligarchs attempt to profit from it. If the majority starts buying precious metals, will they once again try to confiscate them as they did in 1933? If the majority doesn’t buy precious metals, they are taking the risk of dire poverty and if the do, they take the risk of it being confiscated from them. I’ve taken the fighting chance position. It is difficult to fight from a position of poverty, so anyone with half a brain should be buying as much hard asset as physically possible. Many are buying real estate, but I fear, due to the unknown factor of rental rates, has some difficult times ahead until such times as true rental rates are stabilized. High unemployment and underemployment will continue to go up as our financial system continues to implode. The oligarchy is continuing to lie to the American people as well as the world about the true failing of the system.

        We cannot change the near future, we can only prepare for the distant future and hope that what we do, will make the future better for the following generations. Everything we do is a risk so choose them wisely but we must stop being so cowardly and ignorant. There is always a way but the hard part is getting others to join in any significant transformation.


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